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'gender incoherence' and Austism

James

A friend is reading Hendrickx's Women and Girls with Autism Spectrum Disorder (2015) and highlighted the following section. I have put it in this discussion board because I wonder what people's responses are.

Hendrickx writes "testosterone levels in women with autism were higher than control samples and that these women displayed more masculinised characteristics. It also found that men with autism presented more feminised characteristics, indicating that rather than women with autism being more masculinised per se, both genders may be more androgynous and represent a 'gender defiant disorder'. They go on o suggest that, 'gender incoherence in individuals with ASD is to be expected and should be regarded as one reflection of the wide autism phenotype.""

The frequently cited reference for this passage, omitted for readability, is Bejerot et al, ' The extreme male brain revisited: gender coherence in adults with autism spectrum disorder' (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/.../)

  • in reply to Martin

    Retired? I bet you can still jump from the top rope Thumbsup

  • As someone with male pattern baldness, a heavy beard and a rather hirsute body, wide shoulders and a barrel chest, I don't think I could remotely be described as androgynous. I could be described as looking like a retired Turkish wrestler, though!

  • Hmmm, well we do know that Autistic people are way more likely to have gender and sexual identities other than straight and cis-gender than the neurotypical population.  I think it's one of those things that needs to be better understood.  Just what is the relationship between the two?  I loved Laura Kate Dale's book Uncomfortable Labels on being both Autistic and a trans gay woman.

    But is there something biological here operating at a hormonal as well as neurological level? - Well, in my 20s I was told I had too much free testosterone and it would be unlikely I'd get pregnant.  When I was pregnant, I was told I'd likely miscarry.  I didn't, thank God, but I do have the usual issues that come with a bit too much testosterone in women - ovarian cysts and annoying facial hair I am forever having to wax.

    Oh and errr, my horrid ex did once say to be: "You're not a real woman, are you?  You think like a man".  What? I have no idea what he meant by that or in which ways he found my thinking 'male'.

  • in reply to Shardovan

    You and I sound very, very similar - I'm also a cis-het male.

  • in reply to Shardovan

    Thanks for your response,  - and "an anecdotal drop in the ocean" is a great phrase.

    Really thoughtful point about the risk of over-generalising and stereotypes (and essentializing) - and limitations in research and problematic frameworks that took a particular as a norm. This makes me wonder whether this is a socio-cultural issue - and the 'gender defiant disorder' is a result of not focusing on such social cues.

  • I'm agender but I think my testosterone levels are very low, even for someone assigned female at birth. I have no masculine physical characteristics whatsoever. I use minoxidil and still don't have even as much downy facial hair as most cis women my age :(

  • in reply to Mariusz

    The author, Sarah Hendrickx, is autistic. The acknowledgements and the preface notes she is "indebted to the women with autism and the families of girls with autism" who assisted her research.

  • yet another 'research' conducted without autistic input

    It cannot be genuine, it's probably yet another attempt to stigmatise us,

    I thought gender studies would have to be looked upon taking in account the whole population and not just select group, and especially that it's not a complete group, because so many of us is unidentified

    what's the point of it anyway? wouldn't money be spent wiser elsewhere?

  • Interesting. As cis-het male, I do nevertheless feel sometimes that I have a slightly female brain - qualities-wise. A tendency to think more deeply, be more reflective, hurt for a long time, and lacking that competitive drive that's more classically masculine even in non-Alphas. But that's just an anecdotal drop in the ocean, and over-generalising is always a risk with these studies/conclusions. As is stereotyping genders too much even in the NT landscape. Be interesrting to hear others' thoughts on this.

    I think I've heard the above study or a similar one criticisised on Aucademy or somewhere. The thinking being that because early Autistic studies sidelined the female experience so much, the catch-up to include women has too often tried to project masculinity onto how their brains work. Which does indeed sound problematic.