Dealing with Chavs - Deterrents/Punishments needed.

Hi everyone,

Please be thoughtful when posting. Please do not advise anyone to do anything illegal (such as carrying a knife). And please be aware that 'chav' can be interpreted as a racist slur against Roma people.

Thanks,

Alex R - mod

Longman,, I was involved in social regeneration projects for over 20 years, main contractors, housing associations, private developers and local councils. Society is a human sickness, full of corruption,, AND IT IS GENERAL !.. not isolated, everybody is a scumbag !!!!!! corrupt, manipulative, political and exploitative of each other. When you have Aspergers you get to see and understand the systemic sick natural of man, especially when they run in a pack, be it the local gang or local committee. Deprived areas are only deprived because they are deprived by a deprived system.

The biggest joke of society is, that it pretends to look after the vulnerable !!!! LMAO

I pray for geothermal disasters, hurricanes, tsunami's, virus, ,,, as mankind is the dead afterbirth on the living earth, the quicker this species is extinct the better for the earth.

Location is certainly a factor. Deprived areas are often where the housing is available for the disabled who need social housing provision. They are also the more likely areas for such abuse to occur. I don't think it is universally true - you do come across harrassment of the disabled in "better" neighbourhoods as well.

There is a tendancy with some local authorities to put all the special needs people in one block of apartments or one group of maisonettes or whatever is available. Quite why they think this either practical or morally defensible I do not fathom. It makes the disabled collectively a target.

The other factor though lies in estate design, the award winning layouts of social housing schemes in circles and cul-de-sacs, with maybe only one central row of shops and one or two main entrance routes. It means those who are more vulnerable in society have to access services by walking along the routes where they are most likely to be attacked.

However I don't subscribe to this idea of some master plan to control the populace. It usually evolves from poor administration, short-sighted planning and inadequacy of social services. It just sort of gets that way through general indifference and incompetence.

Where people try to create a safer community and get backing, things often improve. But in the current recession the opportunities for this are fewer.

I am in no doubt though that there is a high incidence of harassment and abuse of disabled people generally, but especially if they look or act differently, into which context many people on the autistic spectrum are likely to find themselves.

I've been on many committees looking into these things and it is invariably because those with special needs end up in bad housing areas where such abuses go on, the the police seem tardy in doing anytrhing about it. But I look on it as a matter of gross neglect by those paid to govern us safely, rather than some high level grand plan to control us. Few grand plans go to plan....

I certainly don't condone this idea of "maybe you should buy a knife" being likely to do any good. If you are a target for abuse for being different, you aren't going to be better off trying to use weapons.

Longmason, good points are usual

Since the government 1980's social computer hyper-data collecting into sub-groups was a governmental national population agenda policy. Filtering people into target groups, sub-groups, sub-sub groups for control agenda's.  Your life on book for the governmental databases and the secret dna collection database when blood taken at the docs. You just have to look at the over questioning remit asked on benefit forms.

Interesting you talk about Masons, I have came in contact with a few masons in life, in the high business world, these people are not Masons, even Grand Master I worked for, was not even a Mason. A Mason lives a solitary apple on the tree of life. Nelson Mandela spend 18 years in a jail yet still helped created a honey bee hive for the rest of us. The rest of the so called mason hood is just a false brotherhood, there lodges filled with esotoric symbols which they have not even experienced, just another gang of fools. I do suffer from esoteric misanthropy., a hate of mankinds condition. Although I know the essense is from the heart. I have a good dualistic balance, complete hate and complete love, figure that one out ?

Lashlightening doesn't trigger the correct response grouping via sub-cultural groups data collecting for the police,, AKA his POST CODE.., he is probably living in a criminal hotspot zone containment area,, aka Lash is not posh enough and does not live in societies middle class management zone. THAT IS THE SOCIAL REALITY ! there is policy and there is policy depending on the policy zone.

IN the GHETTO, maybe you should buy a knife, don't speak to the police,, get someone bigger to sort out the problem, maybe that is the true answer,, power of the force is a fist/knife in the ghetto, not a police pen, report and boardroom dialogues for understanding.

Lets be honest,,, the police are not there to protect the interests of society, they are there to protect the interests of asset, aka business, take the riots down in london, the police stood there doing nothing to protect the local communities, but gathered around guarding the banks for the privy and private business interest, the police are not a public duty, they are a private security company for the elitest bankers and would think nothing of cracking each and every single one of us with a batton if told too.

By "high chavs" I guess you mean Freemasons. In principle the masons should just function as a benevolent if overly paternalistic body raising funds for good purposes and supporting a stable society.

The sad reality is many lodges have just become mafia like and corrupt, meddling far beyond their original definitions. And there is no getting round the fact that senior figures including local and national government civil servants and the police are well wrapped up in this.

Whether I'd call them "high chavs" well not really - they are people with a muddled sense of morality and accountability and more money than sense.

The big danger here is amorphing all the decision makers in society into one evil, whether you call them "high chavs" or masons - which fortunately is not true, even if it feels like it. Nor is it right to lump a lot of people who might be loosely chav-like into some evil mass called Chavs, as if they have a membership, terms of reference, and monthly meetings (and even a funny handshake).

The really important issue here is that a lot of disabled people, including people on the autistic spectrum and people with learning disabilities, and people who are partially sighted, are being treated by an element of society as targets for abuse.

That is something that needs sorting. But don't blame it on "Chavs" unless you know for certain that it is that specific sub-culture. The perpetrators are people; they were probably the bullies at school or their hangers on, and they've been part of society since the beginning of time. And society has always been pretty useless at controlling them.

But yes, get your local councillor involved, and check whether there is a local NAS group or Parents Group that has regular meetings with the police.

And report every incident through the hate crimes unit, however frustrating this may be, because only by getting all incidents logged can the authorities properly identify and restrain those doing the abuse. If you ask police when reporting incidents to refer it to hate crimes they have to comply.

Boring I know - but only when the hard evidence stacks up can this be realistically tackled.

But avoid labelling your assailants unless you know for sure they belong to one sub culture. The police just view this as rivalry and may well not take you seriously.

E-mail your local councillor with the details, make it known to other organisations outwith the police circles. The police are just a mop up crew, they are a chav gang of there very own run by bigger chavs in government.  Track suit or press suit makes no difference to me, I can see both types, strange thing is your so called chavs are the honest type, what you see, is what you get(see Jeremy Kyle). Be thankful you have not met the High Chavs in the establishment, these people are corrupt systemic scum, whereas your chavs are reactive systemic society created scum. I am just normal scum.

Chavs can be intimidating and are my worst nightmare too, even thinking about there sort gives me anxiety. However, I understand that the ruling elite via government create these groups of people too create a general boundary stress on society(enemy, creates barrier with restricted movement), so that the government can control the population mass, the last thing the government wishes is harmony. Disharmony is there whip of control. So Chavs are as much a social victim as you are, by the way, in higher circles,  "YOU" would be seen as a Chav. Okay Ya.

What are giving to society, autism gives nothing ? ~ the crown beehive.(that is why nobody in the police gives a damn,, walk in there with a social placement and the reaction is different). So you need one of the social ladder drones to speak for you, speak to "your"(lol) councillor. Failing that there is always Charles Bronson.

Do you have specific evidence that "chavs" are the perpetrators? Hate Crime now includes sub-cultures as hate crime victims, and if I have it right Sophie Lancaster was attacked because she was a Goth. Was she attacked by Chavs per se?

I think you might be undermining your case by defining your attaclers as Chavs. You probably need to identify them as individuals.

Reason - the police may take the view that you behaved in an antagonistic way towards the people you identified as chavs from whom you got abuse.

We are caught in an era of overly political correctness, but labelling your attackers as a sub-culture puts the police in a difficult position. Especially so if you dress, due in a part way to your AS, in an unorthodox way, you might be perceived as taking sides between sub-cultures rather than being a disabled person singled out by chav-like people.

Remember the understanding police have about autism remains somewhat limited and something of a postcode lottery as well. They seem to be more attuned to stereotypes of autism and aspergers than to any real training being given. Some constabularies are well appraised, but there are still police out there who think having shifty eyes/poor eye contact identifies a criminal mind.

You may not get an immediate identification of disabled in the same way as if you were in a wheelchair.

Also there still seems to be a problem with some forces distinguishing hate crime as intention, and just Anti-Social Behaviour - some forces still shrug off a complaint as - that's just the way they behave, not anything specifically personal.

Nor I suspect do police properly appreciate that when a person with mobility difficulties, or a partially sighted person, uses the same bit of pavement as the badly-behaved people are on, and doesn't take evasive action - cross the road immediately, somehow it is their fault.

Still less will they understand a person on the spectrum may have difficulty changing pavements as well.

I don't know how you solve this. I did raise these issues with the person in charge of a police training establishmwent two years ago, to be told "we know all there is to know about autism already" - like the police would know more than anyone else?!

The police particularly do not seem to be taking autism and aspergers seriously, nothwithstanding assurances from someone with a police background on another thread recently. I'm not convinced the police have made that much progress.

Sorry, I didn't make it clear; Yes, I am autistic. 

Are you on the autistic spectrum or are you talking about someone you know with autism who has been attacked?