Some people say that Autism Spectrum Disorder is not a developmental delay, but w neurological difference. It's confusing!

Some people say that Autism Spectrum Disorder is not a developmental delay, but a neurological difference, but that is confusing, because the diagnostic criteria for Autism Spectrum Disorder includes criteria A, delays in communication, and B restricted interest and repetitive behaviors, as well as sensory issues.

  • I think christian priests started the process by creating Jesus, and than few centuries ago, some civic organization picked it up and continued, like one of mafia families/mercenary groups buying out swiss banks and making apetite for more, and we were probably one of the ticks on the list, when did european forget about autistic? there are still aborigen tribes on earth that refused industralisation and remember we had different roles, and say that we must find our place again

    Maori from NZ call us Takiwatanga now

  • I don't know if it was created on purpose like that I think it's just how things have happened.  Especially in the last 100 years.

    I understand about the moral compass thing though. Anything which is a threat to the establishment gets squashed down.

  • of course we don't fit, it was created on purpose like that to exclude us, it was massive endevour of a group of people/organization  that must have taken centuries,

    they fear our moral compass, and that people will listen to us telling that

  • Somedays mine is too! I want to change the narrative, though. And affirm those of us who simply need affirmation. Much can be overcome by simply being seen :) 

  • I know a poet, he aspires to become my 3rd friend, I'm not yet convinced, but I would still like to keep contact with him

    we talked about conditions required to enter 'poem writing mode', and we both agree that high emotions of any kind are neccessary, even better if they are hightened by anxiety. You need to reach 100% on anxiety scale so to say, a step from madness

  • I did write one showing my frustration about it:

    My Dearest Madam/Sire

    Expressing my deepest desire

    I would like to inform

    That I filled out the form

     

    Tough it does not matter

    If I am black white or other

    or fit in your statistic

    because I am autistic

     

    I do not know how to fight

    Or if I have any right

    To freedom, to work or desire

    My dearest Madam/Sire

  • I always liked The W H Auden poem, "The Unknown Citizen".  Perhaps the current system grooms us all to be such citizens?

    owlcation.com/.../Analysis-of-Poem-The-Unknown-Citizen-by-WHAuden

  • Exactly.  Conformity to cultural norms seems to be paramount and I believe this is reinforced by the DSM. 

    For example, in the case of "developmental delays" we'd need to drill down and ask at least a few questions.  Developmental delays compared to whom?  In which areas?  Why are these areas particularly important?  Who devised the benchmarks and decided what was worth measuring and why?  Are there some areas in which, even using the usual benchmarks, we might be in advance of our peer group?  Why aren't these also included?  Likewise any areas in which we might have more strengths or virtues?  And so on.

    We'd also need to consider the current set up within education and healthcare.  As well as looking at what is being measured and why, what's being encouraged and what's missing?  Is the system autism/minority friendly or inherently discriminatory against gertain groups?  For example, I may well perform badly in a hostile environment in which my anxiety escalates and I'm made to feel like an outsider, but that might say more about the environment than me.  

    Moreover, this endless focus on performance really gets to me.  Does that reflect the worth of a human being?  Constantly assessed and micromanaged at school and in the workplace, it's bad for us but my feeling is that it doesn't help to develop well balanced people at all, irrespective of their neurology.  Again, we are often the canaries in the mines, but really these places are so often bad for everyone and impose capitalist values from the earliest age.  Early performance and competition against various measures is seen as an indication of whether we'll get a "good job" and be a useful member of society, as if that's all it takes.  

    Finally, all humans will be on the bell curve somewhere, no matter what is being measured.  So, at school, at work, within our culture more generally, where are the examples of those perfectly adjusted individuals who meet all the required targets at just the right time?  Where are the examples of those who are "normal" and "average"?  It's getting to the stage where we're all in the DSM somewhere.  Its tentacles reach out and include more and more of us and I'm doubting the wisdom of this.  

    After a lifetime of trying to learn about what was "wrong" with me and why I didn't fit in, I'd like to have at least some of my life where I can just be me.   And I'm sure others feel the same.  

    Rant over.        

        

  • Just riffing here but maybe a lot of autistic people don't fit the model which has been created by western capitalist culture (american). In terms of what we want from life and the type of people that we are.

  • It used to be that 'high functioning autism' required a delay in language acquisition and Asperger's syndrome was differentiated by there being no language acquisition delay. In the latest diagnostic criteria, for autism spectrum condition, such delays are not a requirement. If developmental delay were central to autism then there would, logically, be no older adult autistics, but there are, I'm one. So autism in all its forms is most definitely caused by neurological difference from the prevalent neurotype. Autism is often called a neurodevelopmental condition, but this refers to how the brain develops, mostly before birth, it does not refer to developmental delay, but developmental difference at the level of the wiring of the brain.

  • So it's sort of been a double-edge sword for me.  I have the key to my identity BUT the manner in which I was given it and the "disorder" label just feel all wrong. 

    I totally agree, and It's better than to continue stumbling in the dark.

    I believe we've been part of mankind from the beginning of time, a healthy balance to guarantee richer gene pool and to prevent societies from becoming 

    homogeneous collective

    but something sometime in past went wrong and we no longer are valued in societies

  • Ah, yes.  I have very mixed feelings about it. 

    I'm certainly glad to have been identified as autistic and the NHS diagnostic process enabled me to get the corroboration and validation I needed, for myself and for my family (important given the strong intergenerational aspects).  I always knew that I was a divergent thinker, sensitive and with a tendency towards anxiety, but I couldn't pin it down much further than that.  I thought I was an introvert and a highly sensitive person (HSP) but it still felt like more than that ("What on earth?  I'm off the map here!").  And the diagnosis has given me the confidence to seek out the other autistic-led training and resources I really needed.  It was probably the best thing that could have happened for me and mine, given the systems we have to wade through and dealing with the world as it is. It was like finally being given the key to our identity - no small matter! 

    That said, I ideally would have been identified at school, preferably primary school and before lots of bad stuff happened as a result of not understanding my core nature and then being met with an even greater level of misunderstanding from others, and over and above that often being bullied and excluded by others.  It's all been compounded over the years, such that my anxiety escalated and, yes, also easily met the diagnostic criteria for generalised anxiety disorder, with a few more specialised anxieties thrown in, eventually becoming phobias.  I'm sure I featured more than once in the DSM - multiple ways of pathologising me, then.    

    So it's sort of been a double-edged sword for me.  I have the key to my identity BUT the manner in which I was given it and the "disorder" label just feel all wrong. 
     





     

  • My brain's too tired today to react in any way more productively than simply to say.. what an incredible piece of writing! Food for thought. 

  • All logical conclusions are based on a set of premises. If all cows provide milk, then ALL milk comes from a cow. This conclusion presumes the reader has the same definition of milk as the writer. Even in the past, this is incorrect as infants and mothers of all animal species will attest to. How do we account for nut or plant milks? Do we say the technical term for nuts/plants is incorrect or that social variations with language make the use correct, therefore the argument (logic) is incorrect. And so it is with conclusions in research. All matters need to be fully examined. But this is a very plain/silly example in contrast.

    If we judge a person strictly on behaviour, referring to graphs which hold average means for development, then technically speaking, according to those medians, many Autistic-Wired individuals may appear to have a delay. Within the Untied States. But that's a very surface argument that should be positioning a question of why / how. What do we make of those who are excelling far beyond the median in certain areas. And what is at stake? What are we requiring from young humans which is new and is it reasonable?

    Let's pretend the goal for most is a well-functioning society with highly skilled doctors and a dependable fire department, happy baristas, opportunity and access and such. In order to advance as a collective we need children capable of becoming the next generation. 

    While there are many possibilities as to what is creating a dilemma of a certain group of a 'differently' behaved future-generation, I have my ideas as to what is complicating better critical thinking and critical evaluation when it comes to autism in certain countries. However, I think it's important to start looking beyond the DSM and America to countries where education and civilisation is thriving and there aren't as many homeless or in poverty. Countries where medication doesn't cost a house.

    So, first I might evaluate where the criteria is being formed and by whom. Is the same response happening elsewhere around the globe. What were the figures 50 years ago, is the ratio different and if so, what is different in society (beyond cultural value shifts and unnatural lighting for example). 

    But to properly evaluate how and why the behaviour (a response) is happening to the percent in question, one needs to ask if the premise - the basis for the conclusion (delayed development), is correct. And my short answer here is No. Cognitive Bias can muddle results (Are we all driven by competition? Are we all extroverts? What makes humans unique and different? Would 'autism' have been just a different personality type in Jung's Archetypes 100 years ago). Testing for this needs a funding figure of 6-digits and it needs to benefit a corporation of some sort. There is a growing population of Actually Autistic adults who are globally speaking on the overlooked matters of simply being wired differently. A ratio of humans not picking up social cues and being hypnotised by adverts/fear can actually benefit society as a whole. I can think of a few in the past who didn't cave to social pressure (or, noticed) which furthered science, for example.

    On a personal note: My goal with my son was to help him become a relatively healthy human being with good principles. Technical things like driving, economics, doing the dishes and other basic adult-ing can be learned, but if one manages to arrive at 20 with a bit of thoughtfulness and humanity, who can be present and not traumatised in auto-mode with adult drone-like manoeuvring, I have a feeling their life will be a little richer. Most Autistic adults, who might have excelled in a thing, may need 20 years to undo the first 30, peel off and unlearn things which didn't make sense or apply to their mode of perceiving, reasoning and understanding in order to find what they were actually skilled at and would've excelled at had they been able to mature differently. Be wary of any homogeneous collective, religious, scientific or otherwise. 

  • That's such a great point. Even realising that previous bouts of 'depression' were most likely (at least partially) burnout or shutdown takes an awareness of voices with much more nuanced expression of the lived autistic experience than anything in the DSM. Nonetheless, I'm still glad that it exists as a way to perform diagnosis/confirmation, even if it has an imperfect and initially pathologising framework for doing so. With that certainty, I felt I had permission (so to speak) to go researching more productively and knowing I was encountering stuff that was authentically bespoke to the way I'd always been - divergent. 

  • I think the diagnostic criteria are very misleading and unnecessarily pathologising.  There are differences, yes, but these criteria focus on perceived deficits and don't present a whole and balanced picture of how it is to be autistic. 

    So it seems to me that the confusion might depend upon how much credence you give to the DSM.  And also whether you find the term "autism spectrum disorder" to really reflect the truth of the matter.  After all, don't forget that homosexuality appeared in the DSM 1 as a mental disorder.  And the DSM changes with every iteration.  Classifications, sub-classifications, terms merging or disappearing (like "Asperger's") etc.   

    Just my personal take on it, but if I focussed on how I'm seen in the DSM (instead of listening to autistic voices and seeking out autistic-led resources), I might find that I also began to meet their criteria for depression!

  • It used to be that Asperger's was basically the autism criteria, but without speech or cognitive developmental delay. Albeit there are significant differences in the manner of development or use of language etc.

    My language development was very early, but used functionally rather than socially, for instance and learned by echolalia. 

    Some skills can develop later than NT kids, or not at all, some might even be earlier, but they are always qualitatively different. 

    So, yes it's just a different brain wiring.

    You raise an important point about the use of the word "disorder". That does sort pathologise us, as though something went wrong and we're not normal. In fact, it's more like being born left handed - something is different in the neurology, but that doesn't mean we are "disordered". We are normal autistic people, not defective neurotypicals.