Police stopped and searched my autistic son

thanks for this

he doesnt have to answer anything or speak at all. I have been trained by some rather bad people. 

He needs to ask for the duty solicitor before answering any questions.

Hi Plastic. "Are you seriously suggesting that he should just trust them again and walk in for a non-mandatory 'chat' and have every confidence that it's not a trap?" Yes. I am saying that. It won't be a 'chat', it will be a formal, legally abiding interview. We don't set out to trap people. No one that I know has any reason to do this.

"Are you subjectively saying that my advice to not walk through the door without legal representation is 'damaging and dangerous'?" No I'm not saying that. You're advice to seek legal representation is sound, sensible and good intentioned.

"Are you honestly saying that "Don't worry, I'm sure it will be fine - don't think about protecting yourself." is a sensible course of action?" No I didn't say that. I simply examined the system around voluntary interviews to attempt to help the original poster.

The reason I have commented at all is to try and help people understand the actual legal processes that the police have to go through as there is a massive amount of disinformation on this thread. I understand that over the years people have come to distrust the police through some very bad officers not acting in the public's best interest. You will have to trust me when I say that the majority of police that I experience are hard working, moral and doing their very best in tough situations to help people. I was once a member of the public myself so I am not naive to the fact that there are still bad officers. What is don't buy is the suggestion that we as an organisation are somehow trying to trick and manipulate innocent people to the point where they are charged with a crime. There is simply no reason to do this. I'm sorry if you have had a bad experience in the past, I genuinely am.

Apparently my posts have crossed the line and been reported as abuse or spam.

Until this matter is resolved, anyone reading my screeds, should be aware that the content (and presumably my motivation for posting) is being held to question.

I guess my truth is overly offensive to some, although I was more going for educating rather than abusing anyone. I will cease posting here on this topic, unless it is found that my posting is not abusive or spamming in nature. I will have a bit of a think, and probably take legal advice before posting the story of Phil Alcorn, too.

This thread for me is an act of personal stupidity (or bravery, if you prefer). Telling the unacceptable truth about the underpinnings of our modern society is very well know for bringing trouble to ones door, but as the other posters evidence shouts out, we do need some fundamental changes to be made to how policing is executed, and we aren't going to get them unless we actually speak of the issues. 

James H comes across, as many police officers do, as a rational fairly kind and balanced human being simply trying to do a noble job, in the face of terrible odds. 

I apparently come across as an "abuser". I'll freely admit, I do abuse liars, slashing away at them with the "katana of truth" It's one of the many facets of Autism that really upsets "normie" society. The truthiness. 

Unlike some of our posters I am NOT "noble" in my nature. I am a coward hiding behind the anonymity of my keyboard, literally trembling with the fear of knowing that if I REALLY persist in saying the wrong things about our glorious boys in blue, there can be (well documented) consequences to my anonymity turning out to be paper thin.. It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it. Sure ain't no "nobilty" in it though. 

Hi James - I totally appreciate your position - but you are totally isolated from the reality that the law-abiding general public has when dealing with the police.     I completely understand that for at least 99% of your time you are dealing with the utter dregs of society, violent, lying criminals and people who hate you and who know the system and use it to their advantage.

Unfortunately, the police seem to get incredibly jaded and so treat everyone with the same utter contempt and suspicion.       I get that.

This lad has been traumatised and pepper-sprayed by his encounter with the local police.    Are you seriously suggesting that he should just trust them again and walk in for a non-mandatory 'chat' and have every confidence that it's not a trap?        Are you subjectively saying that my advice to not walk through the door without legal representation is 'damaging and dangerous'?

Are you honestly saying that "Don't worry, I'm sure it will be fine - don't think about protecting yourself." is a sensible course of action?

I'm actually surprised by your naivete and belief in the motives of your colleagues.

As a member of the police force you are isolated (have to be for your own protection) from the communities you "serve" both physically, economically, and intellectually.

I'd imagine that this burst of truth, comes as quite jarring, just as the hard reality of policing is often "jarring" to the public when we first encounter it... YOu'll get used to it, like we did.

I moved past "hatred" nearly 3 decades back, and am looking to solve the problem and get us a police force we CAN BELIEVE IN. The first step is stripping away the propaganda and "image" and exposing to the light the nature of the police force we actually have. Discussions like this, (where you vaguely accused one of us of falsehood, incidentally) can be helpful, but painful. I know whenever my own crapulence gets exposed to the public eye it is painful, but gradually as you lose your self-illusions it gets easier. 

The Policemen and Policewomen (that sentence was probably illegally short, but I want to get on with this!) are simply people like you and me plucked from the street, selected for suitability, and then trained to do a job. 

Unfortunately you are trained to see the general public not as your peers, (let alone your employer) but as potential adversaries, and it's bloody obvious to us whenever we deal with you, because it's always there, in nearly everything you do.

THERE has to be a better relationship that can be built twixt police and public.

I'd posit that a good idea would be to make all police officers to NOT be allowed to don masonic regalia any more than you let them don Nazi regalia. For the same reasons, pledging a higher oath seriously compromises their ability to do proper policing. Being a mason is as mind warping as doing drugs, from what I can gather, (it is after all, SECRET). So why do we allow this?

Thank you Aidie.

Your comments are most useful, knowledgeable and welcome here.

They are also were helpful to the original poster !!!!!!!!   which is the point of this forum

I am not seeking to invalidate or deny anyone's bad experience with the police. The point I am making is that you cannot assume all police are the same. For every bad experience there will be equivalent good experience. What is not helpful is when someone asks for help and advice and is then inundated with "expert" opinions from people who have either one or no experience of the police and who certainly have no professional experience of working in the legal system. I was only trying to help the original poster with what seems to be a very stressful situation involving their son. There were far too many unhelpful and just plain false words of advice that only serve to confuse the situation further. You're talking about 50 years of experiences. It's 2021, you cannot compare today with 50 years ago. PACE started in 1984 and introduced many laws around police procedure in an effort to create a fairer system. Carry on with your science experiment though. That sounds like it'll be really accurate.

I've had two bad experiences of the police too. I won't go into specifics but I feel I was badly let down on both occasions. 

We've described our poor quality experiences (And I have plenty more in the  hopper I can tell you, I don't know about the others) and you and Aidie would apparently be motivated to seek to invalidate or deny them. 

We could do a scientific test. Start two threads one entitled "Police, our good experiences" and "Police our bad experiences" and see which fill up the fastest..

I can make two good posts, and it'll be interesting to see how long it does take me to run out of poor quality experiences after 50 years of watching those people and marvelling at the difference between propaganda and the truth. I've not even got close to the one where I watched 6 of them them tasering a guy who wasn't putting up any resistance at 04:00 multiple times until he stopped making any noise in the road opposite my house. It was very hard for me as the sole civilian witness to determine the neccesity for that. But the costumed people seemed to be enjoying themselves.  

The public are at last waking up. 

Couldn't agree more.

Dave, I don't know your exact circumstances or when and where you were interviewed but I can tell you that the "reality" is that everyone, particularly autistic people and people with mental health issues are treated fairly and with respect. I am basing this on working daily within the system and from having conducted hundreds of interviews. I stand to gain nothing from manipulating people. The police as a whole are microcosm of society with good and bad and everything in between. You cannot simply lump all police under the same umbrella.

That sounds nice but is miles from the reality. My interview was manipulated to cause my near death even though police knew i could not be  guilty.

Police are extremely dangerous when interviewing and will never be reasonable or fair especially to autistic people. 

JamesHS said:

There will always be a small percentage of officers who spoil it for the rest of us

Unfortunately these get the most publicity.

yes things change,

some of the police guys on the street have issues themselves after years of brutal work. They need to be debriefed/trained in all sorts more on a daily basis because their job is just so brutal 

more resources are needed for the police force  in England I mean their budget doubled.

They are very overstretched.

the thin blue line is fragile 

I'm sorry you've been treated badly in the past. I don't know when and where this was. All I can tell you is that now in 2021, we are thankfully in a much better place. "Most people" that I've seen are treated with respect and dignity. There will always be a small percentage of officers who spoil it for the rest of us and they are generally widely condemned by colleagues. I am very passionate about improving public perception of police and welcome any questions around the legal system and police procedure. Have a good day and take care.

Hi - I really appreciate your input but it doesn't bare any relation to the way most people get treated by the police.      

I've only had one entanglement with the police and I found them to be lying thugs who try to escalate the situation.     It caused me to completely re-evaluate them.   (I grew up on a police housing estate).

Why do they want to interview him ?  have they accused him of something ? Did they have a valid reason to search him ? They have to have evidence to arrest and interview . I would go to a solicitor.