Weakly developed or absent "self" - looking for info and advice

I'm a high-IQ Aspie, professionally successful in my very narrow, very complicated technical niche. Always felt very different from other people, but tried my best to blend in, not very successfully, but together with tactical use of alcohol as social lubricant managed to get somewhat accepted as one of those smart well-meaning weirdos. Good with me. Discovering I'm an Aspie gave me answers to most of questions I had as to why I'm different and gave me peace. Still, one unusual trait still bothers me a lot.

I have always felt like a machine with engine on but no driver inside. Always had trouble formulating what I wanted. Because I had no specific wants/interests beside the few rudimentary ones - eating, sleeping, reading random information and playing primitive computer games. As a result, I spend my days either reacting to external inputs (school classes, instructions by my boss, requests by my colleagues, family) or when left alone, just staying at home doing nothing. I prefer doing nothing best, hence the analogy to machine with engine on but no driver inside.
I see other people having an internal need to move around, do things, interact with others, build and execute on longer-term plans. I don't have that internal need, I would want to have it but can't find it inside myself. And I also lack that longer-term thinking somehow. Every morning I wake up, and it feels I'm a new person, and have to spend some moments to rebuild an picture of myself in my head, and figure out why and what should I do today. I sometimes try to write down my thoughts and future plans in the evening, to pass over to the morning-me, but don't work that way, you can't download your person in the evening and upload in the morning, so I feel like a blank sheet in the morning :(

Long story short, I was binge-reading Uta Frith and Simon Baron-Cohen writings on autism, and saw there a description of "weakly-developed/absent self" as one of autistic expressions, and it struck me as a perfect match to how I perceive myself.
Since then, trying to find out more about this, but no luck. My thinking -
1) maybe there are ways to train and strengthen the "self" somehow?
2) if I could find out, how the "normal self" functions, I could somehow reverse engineer it in my head, like I do with all those social interactions etc.
3) if there are people like me, maybe they have tactics or strategies I could try

Any ideas, tactics and reading links much appreciated!

Even if no ideas, please shout out if you have felt in similar way. I have read many many Aspie-personal-story books, and have never seen weak selfs there, only the strong ones. So either weak-self Aspies don't write books, or I'm pretty alone here.

  • yup... broke down 20 years ago, 20 years after that i found out why: asd. i used alcohol, tho, as a social lubricant. that was the only society, bonded by a love or fondness of booze, where anything goes. literally. so i fit in. i guess i'm finding my self by accepting i'm a total outsider, that i'm simply different. but i still try to somewhat outwardly fit in ---- i don't want to be completely ostracized.

  • I'm very similar - instead of alcohol as a social lubricant, I developed a huge, extrovert 'fake' personality after measuring that odd+introvert = target for bullies while odd+extrovert = popular.

    I am high IQ too - successfully working in niche industries - but I've always felt detached - like an android going through the motions of being human and interacting with others - always doing the best and 'what had to be done' regardless of personal cost.

    It was all going swimmingly with me gliding through the engineering life until I encountered an incompetent, manipulative manager who made it his life's work to use and abuse me - I had no programming to deal with this so I started to malfunction.

    That lead to the aspie diagnosis, health breakdown and eventual payoff for me to go away / retire at 49.

  • A therapist once told me: "If you were in fact a psychopath, you wouldn't be asking me if you were". 

    Here I am making no connection between you and psychopathic traits. This was just to say that if you were in fact "a machine" or a "new person" each day, you wouldn't be questioning this.

    From my experience, the sheer battle of "trying to fit in" depleted my resources and stressed out to a degree that I really didn't know who I were. I just wanted to be left alone and have absolutely no demands forced upon me. 

    I managed to get to place, where I actually did have peace and support around and suddenly I felt motivation. I started to feel a new degree of control over my life. A very empowering feeling. 

    So my first questions would be - can you let go of the "I am a machine" metaphor and replace it with: "I am a person who needs lots of quiet and no demands to feel myself". 

    To this day, I will still loose track if the external world demands more of me than I can handle. And then it is all about resetting. Alone and in quiet. 

  • It's Frances Tustin, The Protective Shell in Children and Adults. It's full on Freudian/Kleinian psychoanalysis so even though I've some training in psychotherapy there's bits I don't get or agree with, but it's all about this topic and I am gaining insight from it.

  • Edit your user number so it's easier to recognise you and help others build a relationship with you.

  • I did therapy and group therapy, and realising i was autistic expkained why i was (not) relating in either setting in the expected way. I just couldn't see how i could feel sad someone wasn't present or left. Others would winge on how it felt odd, sad, rejected, that so and so wasn't there and i was just like, maybe they're busy, end of story, who cares.

  • Yes, I advocate for this. I lnew better at 7 than now.

  • I'm just reading a book on this! I'm on chapter 2. There's also 'Dibs, In Search of Self'

    I'm quite confused about my sense of self. I thought it was strong, but now think it's weak. I'm heavily affected by people around me, and a lot of my sense of self is built around things I don't like, eg not watching tv. But now i wonder if that's from a lack of interest, rather than sense of self and choice. There are things I like, but yeah, there's always been a disconnect between my body and brain/mind, like it was a partially trained driver who'd got lost.

    Googling for the name of the book I'm reading I found two articles:

    The self in autism: An emerging view from neuroimaging and Understanding the Self in Individuals with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD): A Review of Literature.

    I'll add it this eve, but it's heavy psychoanalysis, tho speaks precisely to this theme. The whole book! What have you read?

    One of my favourite films is Memento about a guy with memory loss and who had to write notes to himself. Quite different to your situation, but it reminded me.

  • i think you may be referring to theory of mind, and empathy. pretty confusing concepts, at least to me, so i won't bother explaining them. you're lucky in that you apparently have a work skill... i think you just need to grow, try different things, idk how old you are... for me, i've had to figure out who my 'aspie' self is, and then who my 'other' self ... uh, was.

    i spent most of my life really having no strong likes or interests. now, trying to figure that out. what exactly do i like? also, figuriing out how to interact with people. you no the saying, when you're a 4 or 5 year old 'play nice.'  i am learning that now. so, part of this aspie growing up is he has to revisit a LOT of things that most NT's simply learned... they naturally learned it. i didn't. so a lot of catching up to do.

    that's how i approach it.

  • i think this guy could certainly try meditation... he just needs to try whatever seems interesting. for me, i have a similar problem to him, and i just try different things until i find certain things i like. then i no, "i like this." that is HUGE for me, as the first few decades of my life, i chiefly did what other people liked. they like this, so i should too. that was my thinking.

    now - i do what i like (tho few others seem to like it) and am free to try different things. btw, does anyone want a load of phat, thick, dense, chess books? free!

  • You're not alone, I definitely feel like that. You describe it very well. Prior to covid I'd spent years in group therapy for depression and anxiety. To be honest I see the others in the group as empty vessels like me. They seem upset when one leaves but I don't for some reason, I know I'm meant to. The ideas and premises they offer are more "valuable". This sounds harsh but I mean no harm. In group therapy Ive learnt that relationships and communications the root of many mantal health issues. It doesn't help when you can't really "see" people and make connections. I'm new to this group today and received my ASD diagnosis yesterday. 

  • Think back to your childhood and remember what you used to like to play with until your were told to grow up - and treat yourself to some relaxing down-time doing it again - if you want a Hornby train set, buy one and enjoy it - rediscover the inner child-you who loved to explore new experiences.

  • Sometimes Aspies are pretending to be different people in all different everyday situations. If you're doing that the entire time, you can sort of forget who you really are because you're always censoring yourself. Realising you're an Aspie is already a step towards getting a sense of identity/self. Other than that, think about stuff you enjoy doing or reading about. Primitive computer games and reading weird stuff are valid hobbies. If you read about something you really like, pursue it and you might develop a new interest. And that increases your sense of 'self'. Also, when you are doing 'nothing' you are really doing something ie thinking. If you enjoy just thinking about things sometimes, that's OK. I'm not sure if this is exactly the same as what you're saying but I hope it helps.

  • https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080206121518.htm

    link above is about weak self not sure if that is the same thing.

    there is something up with the self within autism thats a clear thing

    https://www.spectrumnews.org/opinion/memory-sense-self-may-play-role-autism-thought/

    I do mediation which examines the self and is designed to prove that the self is an illusion.  You are trying to strengthen the self which is the opposite Slight smile