Should we ditch Hans Asperger's label?

I've never liked the whole "Asperger" label, because it lends itself to a series of horrible puns (and is unfair to children in that way).

I presume this has been discussed on here, but Dr Hans Asperger is not the kind of man we should be celebrating. This is off Wikipedia - I apologise for using that source, but it is the quickest to cut and paste

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Edith Scheffer, a modern European history scholar, wrote in 2018 that Asperger cooperated with the Nazi regime, including sending children to the Spiegelgrund clinic which participated in the euthanasia program.[26] Scheffer wrote a book further elaborating on her research called Asperger's Children: The Origins of Autism in Nazi Vienna (2018).[27][28]

Another scholar and historian from the Medical University of Vienna, Herwig Czech concluded in a 2017 article in the journal Molecular Autism, which was published in April 2018:

Asperger managed to accommodate himself to the Nazi regime and was rewarded for his affirmations of loyalty with career opportunities. He joined several organizations affiliated with the NSDAP (although not the Nazi party itself), publicly legitimized race hygiene policies including forced sterilizations and, on several occasions, actively cooperated with the child ‘euthanasia' program.[29]

Dean Falk, American anthropologist from Florida State University, questioned Herwig Czech's allegations against Hans Asperger in two papers in Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders.[30][31] Czech's reply was published in the same journal.[32]

In May 2019, Ketil Slagstad, a Norwegian doctor and historical scholar, added his interpretation of both Scheffer's and Czech's work, in his article "Asperger, the [National Socialists] and the children - the history of the birth of a diagnosis",[33] in which he describes the nuances of the situation. He offers an alternative explanation of Asperger's involvement, citing the challenges of war, desire to protect his career and protect the children for which he cared, Slagstad concludes:

The story of Hans Asperger, Nazism, murdered children, post-war oblivion, the birth of the diagnosis in the 1980s, the gradual expansion of the diagnostic criteria and the huge recent interest in autism spectrum disorders exemplify the historical and volatile nature of diagnoses: they are historic constructs that reflect the times and societies where they exert their effect.

Critically, though, Slagstad noted "Historical research has now shown that he [Asperger] was...a well-adapted cog in the machine of a deadly regime. He deliberately referred disabled children to the clinic Am Spiegelgrund, where he knew that they were at risk of being killed. The eponym Asperger’s syndrome ought to be used with awareness of its historical origin."[34]

  • I think it's not that important. When we are at university trinityschoolofmedicine.org we went through ethics with patients and they explained it to us. In fact, it is very important for the patient to be listened to, to know that he is respected and not judged, to receive accessible information. Medical ethics also includes the ability to communicate competently not only with patients, but also with their relatives, they also need to explain everything in an accessible and competent way, to show sympathy.Professional behavior in society and in the team is also important: self-confidence, which is transmitted to the patient, the ability to support the latter; the use of all their knowledge for the treatment of patients, even if it does not bring material benefits; immediate assistance to colleagues in diagnosis and treatment, if necessary..

  • On the autism vs Asperger controversy, one thing that has been discussed at my local AS support group is that defenders of AS who do not want it submerged into autism are somewhat analogous to Old Believers in Russia.

    Old Believers (the name is a bit misleading as it manifests more in practices rather than beliefs) are people who stick with the original practices of the Russian Orthodox Church before the reforms implemented by Patriarch Nikon in 1652 to align the practices with those of the Greek Orthodox Church.

    My local AS support group doesn't like to get too involved in conspiracy theories which lack evidence to back them up, but reading the runes we suspect that concerted efforts are being made to obliterate Hans Asperger's name from history and to revert ASD back to what it was in the 1980s. This is depite the US adopting ICD-10 in 2015 which enables an official diagnosis of AS, and DSM-6 may reinstate AS as ICD is the keeper of the codes for DSM.

  • its ok like i said I dont mind either way


  • I presume this has been discussed on here, but Dr Hans Asperger is not the kind of man we should be celebrating.

    I assume then you forgot that you previously posted this:


    The first person to identify it seems to have been a Soviet doctor. Unfortunately she was a Ukrainian Jew so Asperger wasn't going to refer to her research.

    And this:


    I hate the term Aspergers. I refuse to be identified by it for this reason, along with the fact it lends itself to vulgar puns.

    On this thread:


    https://community.autism.org.uk/f/adults-on-the-autistic-spectrum/12275/hans-asperger


    On the 09/02/20, if that helps any as I have often forgotten posting things myself for periods of time due to the psychological fragmentations that result from going through seizures.


  • Should really talk about 'Kanner syndrome' and 'Asperger syndrome' then I guess...?

    Reading 'Neurotribes' I can to the conclusion that he was doing the best he could at the time - no-one talks about the people Schindler didn't put on his list, or the profits he made supplying the ***...

    When I stood in the bleak field that is Auschwitz, looking at the endless rows of chimneys that are all that remains of the huts the prisoners lived in, hearing the description of how the place operated I was struck with the thought:

    "What would I have done to survive? As a prisoner, what would I do to get an 'easy' work assignment? What would I do to get an extra slice of bread?" 

    But, what if I'd been a young German?

    "What would I do if I was assigned there as a guard? What would I do to protect myself? To protect my family? Would I have had the courage to help out in some small way - to save even one life?"

    I hope I NEVER have to find out... I may not like the answer.

    I'm increasingly of the view that autism isn't 'a spectrum' - it's a 'skip' and yeah, most skips have some bricks in, offcuts of wood, empty paint cans and frequently a mattress that didn't even belong to the person who hired the skip... but sometimes they have old bicycles in, or prams, or soil... what's in any one skip is different to every other  and might not be what was in it yesterday or what will be in it tomorrow.

    There's no easy set of descriptors for autism, but then, there's easy (accurate) descriptors for people... we're ALL unique and complex.

  • In the 1st year of being diagnosed I went to a meeting for aspie/hfa, "spectrum" was certainly an appropriate term. From the one who made a nun who on a vow of silence look like a noisy hooligan. To the other extreme those who tried to dominate every conversation & made internet trolls look like normal people, ouch. Even the senior phycologist who led the session had trouble with the extent of the spectrum. I can understand some of the reactions of NTs as it depends who they have met before.

    The personal history of Hans Asperger & the 3rd Reich are totally indefensible. But Aspergers is a condition and the diminutive to aspie is fairly harmless. To me asking for a black coffee doesnt mean racsim, its the state of the coffe. Yet to get hung up on the "black" because in the past it had bad conitations goes too far. So same as Aspergers.

    Do we hate pets because Adolf Hitler or do we shun vegetarians because Hitler became one?? No, so why should we rename a "condition/disorder"?

  • U mean Kramer (and Pollnow ?) , right. 

  • have you heard of the "Happy aspies" groups in USA  ? I found them to be highly positive in attitude which I love. They are highly sought after within IT and the science communities. 

    I dont worry about the usages of "aspie".  I love "spectrum", as it is the most accurate.

    I have read in detail of the ("killing") hospitals set up by the N_A_Z_I_S.  The parents thought their children where to be helped but they where often left outside in the snow to die / something similar. The parents would get a letter saying their children died of natural causes ....   truely horrifying stuff which I hope we never see again. 

    so I really love "Happy aspies", because they are so successful,  the ultimate example of the failure of the N_A_Z_I_S regime.

    I love your name,  for the same reason. 

    If in doubt "ask an aspie ! " another beautiful statement / thought and true reason to employ autistic people in companies.

  • It is a useful sub classification of autism which is being lost due to political correctness. Also an interesting story of the terrible behaviour of the ***, that some  neurotypicals are continuing to inflict on aspies

  • I found that it is easier to explain being an Aspie than autistic. I'm an IT professional, and from time to time I have to either apologies or make excuses for poor social behaviour. Initially tried to say I was autistic and others would simply not believe it. Saying I had Aspergers, meant that people had to ask what it was, and that started the dialogue.

    If others want to label themselves as autistic that's up to them, I will refer to myself as an Aspie even if it becomes politically incorrect.

  • History happened, and as you will find if you look it up, Asperger didn't even do the preliminary work... So that's a third strike against him.

    Do you think Stalingrad should still be called that?

  • Would we tolerate people having a Mengele Syndrome named after a famous doctor or should Stalingrad have retained its name?

    Why not?    Are you THAT fragile?     Jeez.     I cannot get my head around the flakeyness of the modern outlook of being sooooo afraid of words and needing safe-spaces because they heard a word that triggers them.

    History happened - so sticking your head in the ground to pretend that it didn't seems a little illogical.

  •  The name autism had common currency before Aspergers crept in about twenty years ago. Would we tolerate people having a Mengele Syndrome named after a famous doctor or should Stalingrad have retained its name?

    If you want to talk about political correctness - look up the Jewish doctor that Asperger plagiarised from, but never credited, because that wouldn't have gone down well with the politicos of the time.

  • I was just going to say that! In any case Wernher von Braun is a bit of a hero of mine !!

    I for one prefer using the term Asperger's as people still associate Autism with characters like  Raymond from the film "The Rain Man".

    I could always use the correct term of Autism Level 1 which is high functioning autism/asperger's etc but thats a bit long winded??

  • but we should not honour Asperger who worked for the ***

    But rocket scientists are ok?     Double standards much?

    Leave history the way it was - revising it for today's standards of PC is stupid - it's been fine for ages and will probably be fine in the future when SJWs finally grow up and stop being PC-babies..

  • Yes it is good to have a label for intelligent people who have various difficulties but are high functioning but we should not honour Asperger who worked for the ***.  I must admit that I describe myself with Asperger Syndrome for convenience although I should not  for reasons explained in previous E Mails..

  • I must admit that although I do not like the label I still use it for convenience although I might not be Autistic at all.  I think I am brain damaged rather than Autistic.   A Canadian Psychologist who tested me for the late Professor Feuerstine in 1983 in Jerusalem E Mailed me recently from Toronto saying that he is surprised that I was labelled Asperger and he knew that I had a Non Verbal Learning Disability on the Right Side of my Brain.  Yes professionals have told me that I have Asperger and a Psychiatrist who visited us in 1976 said I was mildly Autistic when I was nineteen.  A  Psychiatrist when I was nine in 1966 wrongly wanted to send me to an Autistic School  I fell out of a pram when I was a baby and I had a difficult birth.  I have bad perception and find it hard to learn foreign languages although both my parents were good at foreign languages.  It is true that I have some social skills problems but this can also be accounted for by brain damage.  I am sure that there are others wrongly labelled with Autism who  have another disability.  The advantage of these Autistic labels is that it makes it simpler to explain and it gets us together.  I do not think there are any groups for people with Non Verbal Learning Disability.

  • Re-labelling for political correctness,.   Pathetic.    Why do we have to pander to such weak-minded people who need to be shielded from reality and history?

    I have Asperger's..

    I have a REAL problem with the labelling of the 'Common' Cold - I think it should be re-named in case it offends someone who is working class..

  • Everyone identifies differently and I fully respect that, but I personally find the Asperger's label a little uncomfortable. Too many negative connotations for me.