Published on 12, July, 2020
I've never liked the whole "Asperger" label, because it lends itself to a series of horrible puns (and is unfair to children in that way).
I presume this has been discussed on here, but Dr Hans Asperger is not the kind of man we should be celebrating. This is off Wikipedia - I apologise for using that source, but it is the quickest to cut and paste
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Edith Scheffer, a modern European history scholar, wrote in 2018 that Asperger cooperated with the Nazi regime, including sending children to the Spiegelgrund clinic which participated in the euthanasia program.[26] Scheffer wrote a book further elaborating on her research called Asperger's Children: The Origins of Autism in Nazi Vienna (2018).[27][28]
Another scholar and historian from the Medical University of Vienna, Herwig Czech concluded in a 2017 article in the journal Molecular Autism, which was published in April 2018:
Asperger managed to accommodate himself to the Nazi regime and was rewarded for his affirmations of loyalty with career opportunities. He joined several organizations affiliated with the NSDAP (although not the Nazi party itself), publicly legitimized race hygiene policies including forced sterilizations and, on several occasions, actively cooperated with the child ‘euthanasia' program.[29]
Dean Falk, American anthropologist from Florida State University, questioned Herwig Czech's allegations against Hans Asperger in two papers in Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders.[30][31] Czech's reply was published in the same journal.[32]
In May 2019, Ketil Slagstad, a Norwegian doctor and historical scholar, added his interpretation of both Scheffer's and Czech's work, in his article "Asperger, the [National Socialists] and the children - the history of the birth of a diagnosis",[33] in which he describes the nuances of the situation. He offers an alternative explanation of Asperger's involvement, citing the challenges of war, desire to protect his career and protect the children for which he cared, Slagstad concludes:
The story of Hans Asperger, Nazism, murdered children, post-war oblivion, the birth of the diagnosis in the 1980s, the gradual expansion of the diagnostic criteria and the huge recent interest in autism spectrum disorders exemplify the historical and volatile nature of diagnoses: they are historic constructs that reflect the times and societies where they exert their effect.
Critically, though, Slagstad noted "Historical research has now shown that he [Asperger] was...a well-adapted cog in the machine of a deadly regime. He deliberately referred disabled children to the clinic Am Spiegelgrund, where he knew that they were at risk of being killed. The eponym Asperger’s syndrome ought to be used with awareness of its historical origin."[34]
I think it's not that important. When we are at university trinityschoolofmedicine.org we went through ethics with patients and they explained it to us. In fact, it is very important for the patient to be listened to, to know that he is respected and not judged, to receive accessible information. Medical ethics also includes the ability to communicate competently not only with patients, but also with their relatives, they also need to explain everything in an accessible and competent way, to show sympathy.Professional behavior in society and in the team is also important: self-confidence, which is transmitted to the patient, the ability to support the latter; the use of all their knowledge for the treatment of patients, even if it does not bring material benefits; immediate assistance to colleagues in diagnosis and treatment, if necessary..
What Plastic said.
On the autism vs Asperger controversy, one thing that has been discussed at my local AS support group is that defenders of AS who do not want it submerged into autism are somewhat analogous to Old Believers in Russia.
Old Believers (the name is a bit misleading as it manifests more in practices rather than beliefs) are people who stick with the original practices of the Russian Orthodox Church before the reforms implemented by Patriarch Nikon in 1652 to align the practices with those of the Greek Orthodox Church.
My local AS support group doesn't like to get too involved in conspiracy theories which lack evidence to back them up, but reading the runes we suspect that concerted efforts are being made to obliterate Hans Asperger's name from history and to revert ASD back to what it was in the 1980s. This is depite the US adopting ICD-10 in 2015 which enables an official diagnosis of AS, and DSM-6 may reinstate AS as ICD is the keeper of the codes for DSM.
its ok like i said I dont mind either way
I must admit I certainly don't like the term "condition" because having Autism is a real pain in the bum and is very much a "disorder" - I find it funny how the health authorities try and play it down by calling it a condition??
No problemo :) I certainly wasn't trying to be insulting :)
Some people won't even have that it's a disability at all. It's a different ability. You can get t shirts with that on. I'm a lefty by the way but one who believes in free speech.
Thats leftist snowflakery at its finest! *(not you , but the notion)...
whittling all meanings out of a word or phrase so as not to do somekind of offense...
As Malojian....i prefer the term disorder as thats what it is...and that word affords a certain amount of protection...
Whittle away all the very debilitating realities from the common vernacular, and it wont be long before any notion of Autism being anything other than a whimsical notion of a disorder...oh my mean "condition"
Niemand said:I presume this has been discussed on here, but Dr Hans Asperger is not the kind of man we should be celebrating.
I assume then you forgot that you previously posted this:
Niemand said:The first person to identify it seems to have been a Soviet doctor. Unfortunately she was a Ukrainian Jew so Asperger wasn't going to refer to her research.
And this:
Niemand said:I hate the term Aspergers. I refuse to be identified by it for this reason, along with the fact it lends itself to vulgar puns.
On this thread:
https://community.autism.org.uk/f/adults-on-the-autistic-spectrum/12275/hans-asperger
On the 09/02/20, if that helps any as I have often forgotten posting things myself for periods of time due to the psychological fragmentations that result from going through seizures.
Should really talk about 'Kanner syndrome' and 'Asperger syndrome' then I guess...?
Reading 'Neurotribes' I can to the conclusion that he was doing the best he could at the time - no-one talks about the people Schindler didn't put on his list, or the profits he made supplying the ***...
When I stood in the bleak field that is Auschwitz, looking at the endless rows of chimneys that are all that remains of the huts the prisoners lived in, hearing the description of how the place operated I was struck with the thought:
"What would I have done to survive? As a prisoner, what would I do to get an 'easy' work assignment? What would I do to get an extra slice of bread?"
But, what if I'd been a young German?
"What would I do if I was assigned there as a guard? What would I do to protect myself? To protect my family? Would I have had the courage to help out in some small way - to save even one life?"
I hope I NEVER have to find out... I may not like the answer.
I'm increasingly of the view that autism isn't 'a spectrum' - it's a 'skip' and yeah, most skips have some bricks in, offcuts of wood, empty paint cans and frequently a mattress that didn't even belong to the person who hired the skip... but sometimes they have old bicycles in, or prams, or soil... what's in any one skip is different to every other and might not be what was in it yesterday or what will be in it tomorrow.
There's no easy set of descriptors for autism, but then, there's easy (accurate) descriptors for people... we're ALL unique and complex.
In the 1st year of being diagnosed I went to a meeting for aspie/hfa, "spectrum" was certainly an appropriate term. From the one who made a nun who on a vow of silence look like a noisy hooligan. To the other extreme those who tried to dominate every conversation & made internet trolls look like normal people, ouch. Even the senior phycologist who led the session had trouble with the extent of the spectrum. I can understand some of the reactions of NTs as it depends who they have met before.
The personal history of Hans Asperger & the 3rd Reich are totally indefensible. But Aspergers is a condition and the diminutive to aspie is fairly harmless. To me asking for a black coffee doesnt mean racsim, its the state of the coffe. Yet to get hung up on the "black" because in the past it had bad conitations goes too far. So same as Aspergers.
Do we hate pets because Adolf Hitler or do we shun vegetarians because Hitler became one?? No, so why should we rename a "condition/disorder"?
U mean Kramer (and Pollnow ?) , right.
Oh i see. In that case i apologize. I'm feeling particularly vulnerable today. I thought i was being insulted/attacked and became angry and defensive. x
have you heard of the "Happy aspies" groups in USA ? I found them to be highly positive in attitude which I love. They are highly sought after within IT and the science communities.
I dont worry about the usages of "aspie". I love "spectrum", as it is the most accurate.
I have read in detail of the ("killing") hospitals set up by the N_A_Z_I_S. The parents thought their children where to be helped but they where often left outside in the snow to die / something similar. The parents would get a letter saying their children died of natural causes .... truely horrifying stuff which I hope we never see again.
so I really love "Happy aspies", because they are so successful, the ultimate example of the failure of the N_A_Z_I_S regime.
I love your name, Unique Aspie, for the same reason.
If in doubt "ask an aspie ! " another beautiful statement / thought and true reason to employ autistic people in companies.
Indeed !!! :)
Yes, but whats that got to do with anything?
Is it. I had no idea. I don't think i was being pedantic was i? I was just stating my sincerely held opinion on it.
When JohnS stated:
JohnS said:
If you want to be really pedantic..... :)
The term ASD is no longer recommend, because being labelled with a "Disorder" could cause prejudice, especially in the Workplace.
So now Autism is known as ASC Autism Spectrum Condition !!
He was just stating homorously that if you wanted as a matter of choice to be pedantic ~ that you should go from using the ASD acronym to the ASC one, not that you were actually being in any serious sense pedantic.
You believe in free speech for those that you disagree with right?