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ESA 50 arrived aka The Envelope of Despair

Kras83

On Thursday the 7th the dread envelope landed on the doormat. I am not alone as I live with my parents still at 36, and they took me to the Citizens Advice to make an appointment for help filling it in, which I have coming this Tuesday. I am unfortunately not new to this having gone through the cycle 2-3 times with the last two times only being awarded at tribunal. This time I hope may be different but I am still preparing for the worst. The difference is that in the past I have only had a diagnosis of depression and generalised anxiety disorder to go on and always struggled to get across exactly how I struggled as I just knew that things seemed very very hard without having a key to understanding why and what the issues might really be - I knew nothing about it being possible to struggle to identify your own emotions, and having been told it enough I honestly believed my social problems came down to being shy. Its been about a year now since a friend I had made online pointed out that I sounded a lot like the trouble may be some form of ASD and I have learned a lot potentially about myself and why things are the way they are from researching it. I am on the waiting list to be assessed but this will not be until next summer at the earliest so I am still cautious about saying "I have this". The best I can ever tell people is that I strongly believe I have it based on my own research.

Anyways having gone through the cycle as far as tribunal twice and finding the whole process horrific I am wondering if I should take a 'better safe than sorry' approach to the form and put things down that I struggle with even if I know damn well that particular thing wouldn't "score points" (I hate the points scoring, it feels dirty somehow). My reasoning is that if it has to go as far as tribunal I know from experience you cannot add anything that is not already on the initial claim. I'm horrible at getting across the intensity of a situation and always get manoeuvred and guilted into compromising my answers at the face to face.

What would you do? Stick to only filling in the boxes where you know damn sure you fulfil the legal criteria or use the form to give as complete a picture of your difficulties as possible even though its likely wasted effort on many of the things?

I know for sure that at tribunal each time I have been awarded 18 points and thats without the things that I just thought everyone suffered because of taking literally offhand comments growing up like "No-one likes that" or "Everyone gets that from time to time".

Sorry for taking up anyones time with this considering I already have help arranged. I'm asking purely so I can gauge whether or not I am reasonable here as the process always leaves me feeling like scum somehow for trying to stand up for myself.

Edit: By stuff I know I wont score points on I mean using the boxes for communicating simple messages to describe the problems with delayed understanding of verbal messages, or taking things literally when not actively on guard against it etc. Telling them what its like to be me.

  • in reply to Kras83

    Yes, it sometimes feels like a cross-examination.  The medical evidence should be enough.  And i just feel appalled that, as a result of such processes, people can be left with very negative feelings and perhaps some degree of self-stigmatising.  In the face of that, it's good that Citizen's Advice are able to support people.  I just wish it didn't have to come to that.   

  • in reply to Jenny Butterfly

    Just wanted to update that the advice I received at the Citizens Advice was to cover every little thing, and they pointed out the need to repeatedly mention the same issues if they have an effect on more than one area. I do agree about feeling defensive, especially since in the past at face to face assessments I've been ignorant of the probable root issue and less aware of how easily manipulated I can be in a situation when I'm very stressed. Its little things such as when not knowing how to answer a question, looking at the person asking it and they nod, so you mimic it and before you know whats happened you've just said you can do something. Either that or asking the question over and over with different example scenarios until they find one you can do by which point you are feeling so ashamed about how you can't seem to do normal things that you seize upon it and go "I can do that". Its always been on the way home as I sit in the back of the car replaying things that I fully understand whats just happened. I hope I can avoid that this time.

    Also I feel the need to clarify for anyone reading this that by "feeling like scum" I don't mean to imply thats what people that need help and support of various kinds are, its more that the process combined with the way benefits are viewed in the media leaves me feeling somehow less of a human being than those that are able to hold down a job and pay their taxes.

  • in reply to Kras83

    Yes, that's exactly it.  They seem to take a legalistic approach and discount anything added later so this means it's better to take your time and make sure you include as much as possible.  As you say, you might need to rely on it should it run to a tribunal. 

    My impression is that they aim to shake you out of the system if they can and it's no accident, in my mind, that people end up feeling "like scum".  My defensive approach is to take exactly the same legalistic approach, running to extra sheets where needed and referring to things under several questions when it's unclear where they belong or add them in the extra info bit if I've not managed to cover them elsewhere.  

    I wish I didn't feel the need to be on the defensive, but this is the logical consequence of feeling under attack rather than helped and supported by the DWP.  

    PS  You're probably already doing this as you seem to have sized up the situation quite accurately, but I would definitely mention things like the overload and sensory sensitivity and how these affect your life and ability to work.     

  • in reply to Jenny Butterfly

    Thanks for your advice, and sorry for not replying until now. I'm not good at describing these things but I had some kind of overload today where all my senses seemed turned up to 11 and I couldn't make it stop so I ended up wrapping myself up in my duvet for a few hours.

    I've been going through the form answering the questions on some lined paper in bullet point form to try and make sure I get everything down in at least a basic form before I see Citizens Advice tomorrow. I'm hoping they'll give me advice on the actual criteria, but like you said in your advice I would like to at least mention everything because I know from experience that if you forgot to say it on the form you are not allowed to mention it in your appeals.

    Thanks for the help

  • It's a horrible process unfortunately.  I'd advise emphasising the point-scoring issues but itemising everything and explaining how it affects your day-to-day life and how you relate to others (plus whether this feels safe for yourself and others and how this has or might play out in the workplace, with new people or in groups).  I'd use the Benefits and Work guide and work through it bit by bit until I was happy with my first draft, then sit on it for a day or two, check it for completeness (including photocopies of any correspondance or evidence such as being on the waiting list for an assessment) before doing the final copy and keeping a copy for reference before sending it off. 

    In other words, yes, make it as complete as possible, even if you have to add attachments. 

    From what you've said, I'd also state how your issues affect any face to face meetings and whether this has any impact on what you might need to help you to attend - e.g. perhaps you need to be accompanied to help you cope with extreme anxiety (by an advocate or family member), or maybe you need the assessor to give you extra time to respond to questions, or maybe you'd like it recorded so that you can check it's accurate later.          

    Best of luck!