Lying "professionals" and assessment woes.

I am answering as an educated autistic woman.

1. Yes - this technique formed part of my diagnosis

2. Yes. Women present differently to men and have often spent years masking. The assessment is one person's educated opinion though so another specialist may disagree. 

3. Many autistics have ADHD.

4.It is not. I was diagnosed from speaking to a single assessor. I work in a uni where we assess many autistic females each year, they receive their diagnosis after seeing a single assessor 

5.It wouldn't be unprofessional of him. He is a general practitioner rather than an autism specialist though so he may have no idea if your autistic or not

6. If you were that worked up that going to the appt was dangerous you're the one who's in control of your life so you could have re-arranged again. The way you've written about your experiences it comes across as though the assessor cared for you and worried about how you'd take his opinion so he took time out of his busy schedule to see you. 

There are millions of autistics and like NT we all present differently. However, you do seem to struggle a lot less than me in social situations e.g being able to chat to others whilst smoking.

From your post, I can see how the assessor felt that the trauma you've experienced is having a significant impact on you. At the minute it seems like focusing on stabilising you MH and especially how you cope with difficult situations would be the most sensible, then seeking a second diagnosis when you have less health issues affecting you.

If you'd feel more comfortable seeking private support, if you haven't already and are eligible, you could apply for PIP to pay for these additional cots.

You may actually be able to answer a more specific question. At the university where you are based, would one of the disability service managers state that "autism is not an excuse for rudeness"?

I don't believe having a specific neurotype is an excuse for being rude to someone. If an autistic student was struggling with how to communicate their emotions in an effective way, for example, if they became aggressive, after they'd been given a chance to calm down my manager, or anyone they were dealing with in the dept, would book them in for another appointment. The appointment would be to help them develop their communication skills, like we would with any student, this may include raising their awareness of why people may sometimes take different views to them, healthy ways they can make their point, as well as how to escalate an issue when needed. We work with a lot of students from deprived backgrounds and many haven't been taught resilience or coping skills, as such, they have a very narrow view of situations and how to cope (whether they're NT or ND). As such, we have an emphasis on developing the whole student rather than their academic skills. As the assessment is based on opinion rather than specific facts, such as a blood test, of course there could be bias, which is why you can seek a second opinion. At the minute I suspect your MH, especially your anger, will be the overwhelming issue you present with, as such it will be difficult for anyone to see if there's anything else behind that, such as ASD. That's why I suggested you focus on your MH for now.

Although you feel things are hopeless they needn't be, however, if that's what you're looking for, that's what you'll see. I suffered serious MH problems for over twenty years but haven't had any issues for a number of years now. This is due to me dealing with the unhealthy thinking patterns I was encouraged to develop as a child, as well as focusing on excercise, as well as a nutritious diet.

No.

The "only fact I know" is that she took two weeks to tell me what I already know. It wasn't a case of her not being able to get me exactly what I wanted. It was her getting absolutely nothing. She did not take time out of her working day. This. is. her. job.

I'm fine with the concept of realistic expectations; however, this is not what she set either of us up for.  I'm not getting angry at a "fantasy version" as you put it. I'm getting angry at someone who said, "please let me help", and "I want to get you the support you need", and then did neither.

Thank you for the suggestion, but I do not do support groups! I genuinely cannot think of anything worse. 

I have asked on previous occasions to be referred to other services etc. I'm done believing that anything can realistically help. I cannot take any more crushing disappointments. Sorry if I'm sounding bi-polar, rather than autistic. I'm just being honest.

My problem with prescriptions, is that the only thing that works are controlled drugs/stimulants. None of the GPs in the area would apparently prescribe them to adults. There are no specialist ADHD services for adults in the county. I've been told that it would take about 12 weeks to get an appointment to see someone. Which is one of the major reasons I'm rather pissed off at being messed around by the other clinic for over 2 1/2 months...). Their lies will have effectively left me without medication for nearly six months. 

I'm fine with you playing devil's advocate; however, I do not think that the timing of the discussion with the disability service manager was appropriate or helpful. Quite the opposite. I had various other discussion with other people within the support services who shared my opinion. (Not that it matters any more... I had ADHD and nowhere quiet to study, so I had to drop out anyway...). 

The only fact you know is she said she'd try and two weeks later she wasn't able to specifically get you what you wanted, so she took time out of her working day to get back to you about this, so no I don't think you have a right to be angry at the facts. I believe you're getting angry at a fantasy version you've concocted to fuel your negative view of how people treat you. When I'm getting overwhelmed I will write down the factual information I have, this helps me to regain perspective if I'm getting caught up in my emotions, so this could be something you might want to try. The Chimp Paradox also has some useul tips on working out what is logical thought and what is irrational. I have ADHD too and only read the first few chapters but this was enough to help.

If you have no one to talk to, to help you process your feelings have you looked at attending support groups? I was mis-diagnosed with bipolar disorder and attended a few of the monthly meetings in their area. I met a lot of people who thought and reacted like you so you may be able to find others who can help you to develop if you look at the MH related groups.

When I've not been able to get the help I need I've asked to be referred to alternative services and have moved GPs when needed. I had a student recently who had a major palava with his transgender meds. He went on FB support groups to find recommendations for surgeries who'd be able to provide him with the support he needed in a distance he could travel. He's now moved surgeries and is getting the prescription he needs. 

In regards to the uni situation, you thought the comment was ill-timed. The manager may have thought it was exactly what was needed if you were behaving in a way they thought was inappropriate and they wanted to let you know that they were in control of whether you could continue there or not. As such, you were fully aware of what could happen and plan accordingly. Not everyone will think the same way as you and as such, they may act in a way you wish they hadn't. That doesn't mean they're necessary wrong or inappropriate. 

Interesting take on it; however, without going in to more back story than I care to delve in to, you are making a lot of assumptions. Many are woefully inaccurate. 

Without giving away more personal information than I want to:

- I was not a PhD student

- I don't think it was intended as a direct threat of "I want to kick you off this course", but more of a badly-timed comment. When someone's stressed about whether or not they'll be able to continue, and you're basically pointing out that you can kick them out... not helpful. When you're stressed about funding, and you know that if the funding doesn't come through, you know that you're going to be homeless. That kind of stressed me out. Added to which, without a guarantee that I was eligible for funding (again, long story... but no-one would give me a solid answer, it was more a case of "you should be eligible for funding... but you have to apply to find out"), it made me ultra reluctant to apply for the "emergency funding" that you speak of. If my funding had not come through for any reason, any money that I had taken would have been immediately repayable, even though I would have had zero funds with which to pay it. Personally, it would have felt more "stupid" to take money that I may not have been able to pay back. 

- the comment about the "lying ***" was made while I was explaining a situation. It was not made towards an employee (i.e. this employee is a lying ***"). It was more a case of "this person told me over several that he would fill in the paperwork [required for me to actually get the funding request processed] and didn't..." 

You state that "From what you've written it comes across as though your [sic] very comfortable when you're in a state of emotional distress as it's all you've ever really known". Wow... a few posts on a forum and you think you can determine everything I've ever really known? Er, no... you can't 

You state that I'm just looking for  "justifications to make yourself a victim so that you can act out and then become upset and suicidal". A few points:

I do not consider myself a victim. However, after fighting everything I can for over 30 years, I have come to belatedly realise that there is *** all I can do to improve my circumstances.

Beyond a certain point, I react to circumstances. The more I get dumped on, and the more people fail to listen to me, the more pissed off I get. If I give you a recent example... I was told by a manager at a clinic I had attended to be referred back there. She knew that I had attempted suicide in March. It took everything I had to ask my GP for that referral. They declined the referral because of the way that my GP had worded it. I got my GP to write another referral, this was also rejected, as they felt that I should be seen by local services, and it would "no longer be beneficial" for me to be seeing at that clinic. (Never mind that it might, y'know... save my life...) They never had any intention of seeing me again, yet wasted two months of my time letting me think that I could be referred back there. Realising that I was pissed off, the manager passed on my details to another manager there. She sounded as though she might actually be able to do something useful. She said I'd hear back from her "in a few days". After two weeks, she sent me an email that was effectively telling me things that I already know, just with added spin to make her staff sound less incompetent. During all this time, I have had no access to the medication that allowed me to actually function. All I was effectively given was false hope.

Please tell me, am I not right to be pissed off about this? Or is this just me being a victim? Am I wrong to be angry at being lied to? Is this just me looking for an excuse to "act out"? Or do I have every right to be pissed off, as I cannot actually function without the medication that this clinic prescribed? (and that I should add, my GP won't).  If I was well enough, I could have tried to get some money I'm owed refunded. Without the meds, I couldn't. I'm probably going to be over £15K down. But I guess that's just me being a victim, huh? Money... who needs it?!

I can give you multiple examples of these kinds of things. However, I have just deleted most of what I have just typed, mostly as I don't think I need to justify myself here to someone who I suspect is projecting large volumes of their own crap on to me. 

I really do not mind taking responsibility for my own *** ups; however, I expect other people to do the same. And that's usually where the problems start. 

I have been suicidal more on than off for over 30 years. I didn't tell a soul until I belatedly sought help in 2010. My tendencies have been to withdraw and say nothing, and not to "act out". I made my first proper suicide attempt this March. This was not a "cry for help". It was not a handful of pills.  It was a 100 metre drop. Unfortunately, I hesitated and got escorted away by security. 

I'm glad that you've found a way forward. I really am. I'm glad for you that you managed to find things that work for you. 

I have tried to improve my mental health. I really have. But over the last couple of years, I have just come to realise that some things are too broken to fix. I'm too broken to fix. I'm missing at least one, possibly two diagnoses, and there is nothing I can do about that.  I have no friends I have no-one to talk to. No-one to help me put things in to context. I have never had a romantic relationship. I have no access to sex, or any kind of affection.  I will never own my own home. You may have found things that work for you... I haven't, and there is a limited amount of things that I can do about that. I have no money to pay for any private treatment, so that is not an option. I struggle with books, as I have untreated ADHD and major procrastination issues. Actually reading the books, let alone putting things into practice is really difficult for me (major executive function issues).  I have tried therapy, including CBT (what a waste of time that was) and CAT. I have tried to get enrolled in clinical trials. I have tried to change my life, and get away from sources of major stress. I have failed. It doesn't matter what I do. I fail. 

You're right about one thing, though: I don't have to keep living the "life" I have.

Sorry if this is a mess. No medication, remember :-(

(Now I'm paranoid the "sad face" will make me look like a victim.)

Same as in not good, not same experiences. 

I agree. You are very good at communicating, 301. It’s been the same rollercoaster life for me. We cannot be in victim mode forever. 

JessicaJ said:

In part, it doesn't help that most people are too stupid to understand their contributions to the situations that have caused or worsened the anger.

I found this point to be very interesting. Especially as some people may view you as the stupid one in relation to how you keep behaving even though your behaviour and then how people subsequently react to you cause you a lot more issues and stress than needed. For example, how your reaction to this employee then led to their manager wanting to potentially kick you off the course. As other people have said, anger isn't an emotion many people want to deal with, especially as its often a very inappropriate response. As a PHD student, you are disposable so it was in your best interest to manage the situation tactfully. For example, if the funding didn't come through in time and you were concerned about the lack of income the first thing many people would have done would have explained their financial situation and asked about the university's crisis funding. Were you too stupid to understand how your own contribution made the situation worse? I don't see it as simple as being an issue of stupidity. From what you've written it comes across as though your very comfortable when you're in a state of emotional distress as it's all you've ever really known, as such keep looking for justifications to make yourself a victim so that you can act out and then become upset and suicidal.

There is a lot of support out there to develop anger management skills be this self-help books, therapy etc. You don't have to keep living the life you have. I've had a pretty crappy life too as I grew up in an abusive home, have taken two settlement agreements at work due to disability discrimination, was cheated on by an ex, attempted suicide etc. If I put all my energy into being a victim and refusing to do my best to improve my MH, overcome any anger etc I'd have a very poor quality of life too. Instead, I spent years attending private and NHS support, working out what self-care options worked best for me etc. Now I'm the happiest I've ever been. You have to be the driving force for this though. If you come across someone who you find unhelpful and choose to let it fuel any anger and feelings of being a victim, then give up you'll continue to feel the way you do. You have to  choose keep going until you find out what works.

Thank you for your response. 

I think it was more that I had referred to someone (outside of the university) as a lying ***. I stand behind the comment. It was in context and accurate. It was the person who was directly responsible for the fact that my funding hadn't come through (which was stressing me out enormously). The manager had then started to have a go at me, stating that she could have me kicked off my course. Which when the main thing you're stressed about is potentially not getting any funding, and then being left homeless and penniless, was tactless in the extreme. 

I particularly struggle to deal with the promoted-way-beyond-their-level-of-competence mid-level manager. I struggle to shut up when I know I should smile and nod. 

My anger is the direct result of being screwed over by about ten different people. There is nothing I can do about it. I take your point that people don't react well to it. In part, it doesn't help that most people are too stupid to understand their contributions to the situations that have caused or worsened the anger.

It doesn't matter any more anyway.

Thank you for your response. 

I think it was more that I had referred to someone (outside of the university) as a lying ***. I stand behind the comment. It was in context and accurate. It was the person who was directly responsible for the fact that my funding hadn't come through (which was stressing me out enormously). The manager had then started to have a go at me, stating that she could have me kicked off my course. Which when the main thing you're stressed about is potentially not getting any funding, and then being left homeless and penniless, was tactless in the extreme. 

I particularly struggle to deal with the promoted-way-beyond-their-level-of-competence mid-level manager. I struggle to shut up when I know I should smile and nod. 

My anger is the direct result of being screwed over by about ten different people. There is nothing I can do about it. I take your point that people don't react well to it. In part, it doesn't help that most people are too stupid to understand their contributions to the situations that have caused or worsened the anger.

It doesn't matter any more anyway.

No.

The "only fact I know" is that she took two weeks to tell me what I already know. It wasn't a case of her not being able to get me exactly what I wanted. It was her getting absolutely nothing. She did not take time out of her working day. This. is. her. job.

I'm fine with the concept of realistic expectations; however, this is not what she set either of us up for.  I'm not getting angry at a "fantasy version" as you put it. I'm getting angry at someone who said, "please let me help", and "I want to get you the support you need", and then did neither.

Thank you for the suggestion, but I do not do support groups! I genuinely cannot think of anything worse. 

I have asked on previous occasions to be referred to other services etc. I'm done believing that anything can realistically help. I cannot take any more crushing disappointments. Sorry if I'm sounding bi-polar, rather than autistic. I'm just being honest.

My problem with prescriptions, is that the only thing that works are controlled drugs/stimulants. None of the GPs in the area would apparently prescribe them to adults. There are no specialist ADHD services for adults in the county. I've been told that it would take about 12 weeks to get an appointment to see someone. Which is one of the major reasons I'm rather pissed off at being messed around by the other clinic for over 2 1/2 months...). Their lies will have effectively left me without medication for nearly six months. 

I'm fine with you playing devil's advocate; however, I do not think that the timing of the discussion with the disability service manager was appropriate or helpful. Quite the opposite. I had various other discussion with other people within the support services who shared my opinion. (Not that it matters any more... I had ADHD and nowhere quiet to study, so I had to drop out anyway...). 

The only fact you know is she said she'd try and two weeks later she wasn't able to specifically get you what you wanted, so she took time out of her working day to get back to you about this, so no I don't think you have a right to be angry at the facts. I believe you're getting angry at a fantasy version you've concocted to fuel your negative view of how people treat you. When I'm getting overwhelmed I will write down the factual information I have, this helps me to regain perspective if I'm getting caught up in my emotions, so this could be something you might want to try. The Chimp Paradox also has some useul tips on working out what is logical thought and what is irrational. I have ADHD too and only read the first few chapters but this was enough to help.

If you have no one to talk to, to help you process your feelings have you looked at attending support groups? I was mis-diagnosed with bipolar disorder and attended a few of the monthly meetings in their area. I met a lot of people who thought and reacted like you so you may be able to find others who can help you to develop if you look at the MH related groups.

When I've not been able to get the help I need I've asked to be referred to alternative services and have moved GPs when needed. I had a student recently who had a major palava with his transgender meds. He went on FB support groups to find recommendations for surgeries who'd be able to provide him with the support he needed in a distance he could travel. He's now moved surgeries and is getting the prescription he needs. 

In regards to the uni situation, you thought the comment was ill-timed. The manager may have thought it was exactly what was needed if you were behaving in a way they thought was inappropriate and they wanted to let you know that they were in control of whether you could continue there or not. As such, you were fully aware of what could happen and plan accordingly. Not everyone will think the same way as you and as such, they may act in a way you wish they hadn't. That doesn't mean they're necessary wrong or inappropriate. 

Interesting take on it; however, without going in to more back story than I care to delve in to, you are making a lot of assumptions. Many are woefully inaccurate. 

Without giving away more personal information than I want to:

- I was not a PhD student

- I don't think it was intended as a direct threat of "I want to kick you off this course", but more of a badly-timed comment. When someone's stressed about whether or not they'll be able to continue, and you're basically pointing out that you can kick them out... not helpful. When you're stressed about funding, and you know that if the funding doesn't come through, you know that you're going to be homeless. That kind of stressed me out. Added to which, without a guarantee that I was eligible for funding (again, long story... but no-one would give me a solid answer, it was more a case of "you should be eligible for funding... but you have to apply to find out"), it made me ultra reluctant to apply for the "emergency funding" that you speak of. If my funding had not come through for any reason, any money that I had taken would have been immediately repayable, even though I would have had zero funds with which to pay it. Personally, it would have felt more "stupid" to take money that I may not have been able to pay back. 

- the comment about the "lying ***" was made while I was explaining a situation. It was not made towards an employee (i.e. this employee is a lying ***"). It was more a case of "this person told me over several that he would fill in the paperwork [required for me to actually get the funding request processed] and didn't..." 

You state that "From what you've written it comes across as though your [sic] very comfortable when you're in a state of emotional distress as it's all you've ever really known". Wow... a few posts on a forum and you think you can determine everything I've ever really known? Er, no... you can't 

You state that I'm just looking for  "justifications to make yourself a victim so that you can act out and then become upset and suicidal". A few points:

I do not consider myself a victim. However, after fighting everything I can for over 30 years, I have come to belatedly realise that there is *** all I can do to improve my circumstances.

Beyond a certain point, I react to circumstances. The more I get dumped on, and the more people fail to listen to me, the more pissed off I get. If I give you a recent example... I was told by a manager at a clinic I had attended to be referred back there. She knew that I had attempted suicide in March. It took everything I had to ask my GP for that referral. They declined the referral because of the way that my GP had worded it. I got my GP to write another referral, this was also rejected, as they felt that I should be seen by local services, and it would "no longer be beneficial" for me to be seeing at that clinic. (Never mind that it might, y'know... save my life...) They never had any intention of seeing me again, yet wasted two months of my time letting me think that I could be referred back there. Realising that I was pissed off, the manager passed on my details to another manager there. She sounded as though she might actually be able to do something useful. She said I'd hear back from her "in a few days". After two weeks, she sent me an email that was effectively telling me things that I already know, just with added spin to make her staff sound less incompetent. During all this time, I have had no access to the medication that allowed me to actually function. All I was effectively given was false hope.

Please tell me, am I not right to be pissed off about this? Or is this just me being a victim? Am I wrong to be angry at being lied to? Is this just me looking for an excuse to "act out"? Or do I have every right to be pissed off, as I cannot actually function without the medication that this clinic prescribed? (and that I should add, my GP won't).  If I was well enough, I could have tried to get some money I'm owed refunded. Without the meds, I couldn't. I'm probably going to be over £15K down. But I guess that's just me being a victim, huh? Money... who needs it?!

I can give you multiple examples of these kinds of things. However, I have just deleted most of what I have just typed, mostly as I don't think I need to justify myself here to someone who I suspect is projecting large volumes of their own crap on to me. 

I really do not mind taking responsibility for my own *** ups; however, I expect other people to do the same. And that's usually where the problems start. 

I have been suicidal more on than off for over 30 years. I didn't tell a soul until I belatedly sought help in 2010. My tendencies have been to withdraw and say nothing, and not to "act out". I made my first proper suicide attempt this March. This was not a "cry for help". It was not a handful of pills.  It was a 100 metre drop. Unfortunately, I hesitated and got escorted away by security. 

I'm glad that you've found a way forward. I really am. I'm glad for you that you managed to find things that work for you. 

I have tried to improve my mental health. I really have. But over the last couple of years, I have just come to realise that some things are too broken to fix. I'm too broken to fix. I'm missing at least one, possibly two diagnoses, and there is nothing I can do about that.  I have no friends I have no-one to talk to. No-one to help me put things in to context. I have never had a romantic relationship. I have no access to sex, or any kind of affection.  I will never own my own home. You may have found things that work for you... I haven't, and there is a limited amount of things that I can do about that. I have no money to pay for any private treatment, so that is not an option. I struggle with books, as I have untreated ADHD and major procrastination issues. Actually reading the books, let alone putting things into practice is really difficult for me (major executive function issues).  I have tried therapy, including CBT (what a waste of time that was) and CAT. I have tried to get enrolled in clinical trials. I have tried to change my life, and get away from sources of major stress. I have failed. It doesn't matter what I do. I fail. 

You're right about one thing, though: I don't have to keep living the "life" I have.

Sorry if this is a mess. No medication, remember :-(

(Now I'm paranoid the "sad face" will make me look like a victim.)

Same as in not good, not same experiences. 

I agree. You are very good at communicating, 301. It’s been the same rollercoaster life for me. We cannot be in victim mode forever. 

JessicaJ said:

In part, it doesn't help that most people are too stupid to understand their contributions to the situations that have caused or worsened the anger.

I found this point to be very interesting. Especially as some people may view you as the stupid one in relation to how you keep behaving even though your behaviour and then how people subsequently react to you cause you a lot more issues and stress than needed. For example, how your reaction to this employee then led to their manager wanting to potentially kick you off the course. As other people have said, anger isn't an emotion many people want to deal with, especially as its often a very inappropriate response. As a PHD student, you are disposable so it was in your best interest to manage the situation tactfully. For example, if the funding didn't come through in time and you were concerned about the lack of income the first thing many people would have done would have explained their financial situation and asked about the university's crisis funding. Were you too stupid to understand how your own contribution made the situation worse? I don't see it as simple as being an issue of stupidity. From what you've written it comes across as though your very comfortable when you're in a state of emotional distress as it's all you've ever really known, as such keep looking for justifications to make yourself a victim so that you can act out and then become upset and suicidal.

There is a lot of support out there to develop anger management skills be this self-help books, therapy etc. You don't have to keep living the life you have. I've had a pretty crappy life too as I grew up in an abusive home, have taken two settlement agreements at work due to disability discrimination, was cheated on by an ex, attempted suicide etc. If I put all my energy into being a victim and refusing to do my best to improve my MH, overcome any anger etc I'd have a very poor quality of life too. Instead, I spent years attending private and NHS support, working out what self-care options worked best for me etc. Now I'm the happiest I've ever been. You have to be the driving force for this though. If you come across someone who you find unhelpful and choose to let it fuel any anger and feelings of being a victim, then give up you'll continue to feel the way you do. You have to  choose keep going until you find out what works.