Published on 12, July, 2020
Hello. I am 36 years old. I have suffered with depression and anxieties almost all my adult life.I was referred to the Asperger's service on the NHS in 2014 after seeing several counsellors and therapists who recommended an assessment for Asperger's. The first to suggest that I might have Asperger's was a private funded counsellor, paid for by the college I was attending. The NHS services gave me a few short appointments. The first of which was with a nurse, and involved mainly questions about my childhood which I could not answer. The nurse seemed to have an attitude towards me, and said I didn't have Asperger's because I could not answer the questions - so therefore did not meet their criteria. I then asked for a further assessment with an actual doctor. I took someone with me to the appointment. The doctor seemed to have an attitude towards me and my companion. Virtually all of his questions seemed to be anchoring around a theme which seemed to be - that he must have thought that I was abused or neglected as a child. Again, not many of these questions could be answered and there were almost no questions relating to the symptoms I experience and how they affect my life.Now, just now in 2018, they have decided not to give me a diagnosis. The doctor said they will just refer me back to psychiatric services and recommend CBT and further assessments. He believes my symptoms are something to do with my personality. However he said that personality disorders are not diagnosed any more. I think it was a personality clash between myself and the doctor. He probably felt like I was wasting his time because I could not answer his questions. I feel that they have wasted years of my life - as I have been waiting for appointments this whole time.They have refused to give me a second opinion with another doctor and will not give me any more assessment time.Many people I know believe that I must have Asperger's. When I told some people that I was being assessed, they said that they thought I had Asperger's but never mentioned it before because they either did not wish to offend me or because they assumed I must already know.When I first learned what Asperger's and Autism is, I did a lot of research. I became able to identify autism in all of the other students at the college, whom I previously thought just had some learning difficulties such as dyslexia. It became clearly obvious to me if someone has autism or not.With every other illness in the world, the diagnosis is given based on the symptoms. With most illnesses, the doctor isn't even concerned with the cause. For example, if an alcoholic has depression then they diagnose depression and treat depression. They might recommend for the person to stop drinking, but they don't diagnose alcoholism and ignore the depression.One thing which is not made clear at all, in websites like this and the information available - is that if a person cannot answer questions about their childhood, no matter what symptoms they have, they will be refused a diagnosis for Asperger's autism. This should either be made abundantly clear, or it should be changed. The assessment criteria for an adult should depend on the symptoms alone and not the cause.There is no cure for Asperger's, yet they will try to cure me with CBT and give me other assessments which produce negative results.What am I supposed to do if I cannot answer questions about my childhood?
Asperger said:There is no cure for Asperger's, yet they will try to cure me with CBT and give me other assessments which produce negative results.
It is possible for one person to have multiple diagnosis. So it is possible to have both Aspergers and depression. Though I agree that if it's the case, recognising both would be better than just recognising one. But it is possible that CBT may partially help even though not completely. Do you think it may be helping even a tiny bit? Or do you think it is making you feel even worse? If it is still somewhat helpful then maybe it is worth continuing it. If you think it's making things worse, then you should discuss with the person doing it with you.
Although Aspergers cannot be cured, it is possible for someone with Aspergers to learn social skills and understand how to deal with stress. Temple Grandin is a excellent example (she often write about how her education and upbringing made her a better person). Maybe you would find reading some of her books about Aspergers to be helpful.
Asperger said:I was referred to the Asperger's service on the NHS in 2014 after seeing several counsellors and therapists who recommended an assessment for Asperger's. The first to suggest that I might have Asperger's was a private funded counsellor, paid for by the college I was attending.
It's really nice that your college had been able to provide support for counsellors and therapists, and it seems like you've had some good experiences with this. Are you still in college now? Even though I don't have a diagnosis, I've been given support for Aspergers by my university and am treated as if I have the condition and given advice on this area, such that it doesn't seem to matter much if I have an official diagnosis or not. Would it be possible to ask your counsellors/therapists to consider you might have 'possible Aspergers' or to provide relevant advice on how to deal with symptoms related to Aspergers?
(Keep in mind that it might be difficult as it might not be the expertise of all counsellors and they may be cautious as they don't want to mistreat you with something they aren't confident you have, so don't be too angry if they aren't comfortable with it, but it could be worth a try asking about it if you think it may help you. Maybe you could say something like, "I think I might have some traits associated with Aspergers as I find it really difficult to deal with xxx, could you give me some advice on how to deal with xxx?")
Sorry I'm not sure how to make a quote on here...CBT is (I found) mostly about emotions or emotional impulse training. I don't usually think emotionally on the first pass. I tend to think more with Boolean rules. Logical before emotional.Before I went to college I found a video on YouTube posted by The Big Think, with a doctor talking about Mindfulness. I think the video is titled "how to call off the emotional attack dogs". I recommend anyone to watch it. He gives instructions on how to increase 'your' mindfulness in order to avoid situations which cause 'you' to act impulsively. He says it is a hard thing to do, and unlike riding a bike, if you do not keep practicing his methods you will lose the progress. However, I found that I automatically do what he says anyway, without a pen and paper or help from friends.Temple has HFA, Asperger's is another form of autism. I think that is the issue I got with the Nurse... It seems her understanding of autism is limited to the understanding of severe autism which causes a person to require a carer. Both the Nurse and the Doctor seem reluctant to give the diagnosis to anyone who does not require a carer... And in the USA they don't even diagnose the different forms of autism the same as in the UK now. They say level 1,2,3 the level depending on how much care a person may need, and they don't diagnose Asperger's. But from what I have read, the symptoms of autism worsen with age. So although I do not need a carer now, I may need one in the future. Something else I read, was a study which found that only 87% of diagnoses in children are accurate. Which means 13% of children who receive a diagnosis for an Autism Spectrum Disorder are misdiagnosed and do not have autism. Which is why I say that they should diagnose adults based on the symptoms alone, and not base the criteria on "the doctor's perception of" how they adult may have been as a child. Refusing to give an adult a diagnosis on the grounds that they do not have enough evidence to prove they are right, with the criterium used for diagnosing children, is just wrong. Because statistically they would inaccurately refuse to diagnose more adults who do indeed have autism, than they would diagnose accurately. I would like to see a study which proves me right in that assumption. How do they expect me or my parents, to accurately or fluently remember things from 20+ years ago... only fragmented information remains.Believe me, I have been from one side of the internet to the other on this subject.I am not at college now. I studied computer science. There were a lot of other students who had all forms of autism in the computer science lab. The academic realm is probably the best place to be if you want help. I wanted the diagnosis before I looked at returning to study, not because of the help it would enable me to access, but because it would make people understand me better if I could say "I have this condition."Study took a great toll on me, because I take words literally (how else should I take literacy?) So if a task said "list the features of 3 software applications." I wrote the whole instruction manual on those applications. Then found everyone else had written just 1 page, and then they amended the tasks to say "list 3 features of 3 software applications."It seems to me, from the answers here so far, that it is not a matter of going for private consultancy, but rather a matter of finding the right consultant, with the right attitude. Or getting the board of doctors to change the diagnostic manual where adults are concerned. Which is not exactly a good thing. Thanks.
Asperger said:Sorry I'm not sure how to make a quote on here...
All you need to do is highlight the text you want, and the quote function will pop up
Asperger said:CBT is (I found) mostly about emotions or emotional impulse training. I don't usually think emotionally on the first pass. I tend to think more with Boolean rules. Logical before emotional.
This is quite weird. From what I know, CBT is suppose to be logical. It's suppose to help the person doing it think in a logical way. They assume that it is logical errors and irrational thoughts that make people more and more depressed or anxious. Of course there will be emotion and behaviours involved that need to addressed, but being a "cognitive" behaviour therapy it largely targets thought patterns. It could be that the person doing it with you just happens to not be very good at it or they might not have a good personal fit with you.
Asperger said:Temple has HFA, Asperger's is another form of autism.
Yes, I am aware of this. But she has written books about autism and Aspergers. For example, "The Way I See It: A Personal Look At Autism And Asperger's (2008), ISBN 9781932565720". And she talks about both autism and Aspergers. Since HFA and Aspergers are really similar, advice on one would be helpful to the other.
Asperger said:Study took a great toll on me, because I take words literally (how else should I take literacy?) So if a task said "list the features of 3 software applications." I wrote the whole instruction manual on those applications. Then found everyone else had written just 1 page, and then they amended the tasks to say "list 3 features of 3 software applications."
I'm not an expert on CBT. But I think the spirit of CBT would be like, instead of thinking about the negative impact, stress, waste of time, and unfairness that poor instructions gave you when you were in college... Consider that you must have made a really good impression to your teachers by doing so much more than others. Or consider that by doing more, you strengthen your knowledge more than other students. And, look, after what you did, they changed the wording of the tasks to make it clearer, proving that it was their fault for being ambiguous, and because of you future students will benefit from clearer instructions. All of my statements are logical, but in a more positive way of thinking.
Good luck! I hope you find something you enjoy!
That is very kind of you to provide these links.Thank you, I will take a look so that your effort does not go to waste.Biology, physics, computers, they all have one thing in common... The storage of information.I'm not sure if I will apply to study more. I need to research the available courses and apply for something that will start next September if I am going to study.I was thinking of perhaps going for physics. But I think I will look at the available Access to Higher Education courses for adults. The problem is that I would need to take the English GCSE again first. I have the "functional skills level 2" in English, which should be equivalent to a GCSE but academic institutions do not accept it as equivalent, even though they say it is.I am not sure, I need to research.The debt I have is to student loans, and although they say you do not have to pay it back until/unless you earn a certain amount... I feel the weight of debt and it still grows interest.We can always hope that Labour will get in power and scrap tuition fees as they said they would.I saw a report by the BBC the other week which says that the Conservatives are simply hiding the deficit in student loans, to make it look like they have cleared the deficit. Apparently it cannot be scrutinised if it is classed as student debt. A sneaky trick, burdening students with the country's debt.But let's not get into politics here xD
Asperger said:I now have debt and an achievement which can only lead to more study.
Sorry to hear about the debt issue. You said you studied computer science. That's a really cool topic! I study biology, but I wish I knew more about computer science (I do use a bit of machine learning). There are lots of good jobs for computer scientists. I think it would be really fun to work at Google or Facebook. They have a really good salary and take good care of employees (free meals). I think they also do a lot of innovative stuff, so it could be challenging and fun if you feel held back by overachieving.
I know a software engineer who works in a not-so-prestigious company, who enjoys her job a lot. She says there are quite a few engineers who have Aspergers there.
By the way, I found some news saying that tech companies are making autism hiring a priority: https://www.monster.com/career-advice/article/autism-hiring-initiatives-techHave you heard of Auticon? https://auticon.co.uk/careers/ It's an IT and compliance consulting business (they have software testing, development, analytics, compliance & security), and most of the consultants are on the autism spectrum. You might like it there, and if you meet other people there who were diagnosed as adults, you may be able to get some advice on the diagnosis process.
Cassandro said:Does it not relate to your problems with the CBT then?
I already therapized myself in this way, before I found this video. When I was younger I used to punch out at people. Then I hurt someone and realised that I had to change. I have not hit anyone since, and I do not even have emotional outbursts at people now (shout etc.) thanks to this way of thinking. Some situations I avoid completely, yes. What good would it do if I would just end up questioning the therapist and telling them that they are doing it wrong?The first time I spoke to a CBT therapist, they refused to help me and referred me back to the GP.Then I saw the counsellor at college who assessed me and referred me back to the GP recommending a referral for an Asperger's assessment.The GP referred me to psychiatric services, I saw a retiring psychiatrist who referred me to another CBT specialist - who then referred me back to the psychiatrist recommending an assessment for Asperger's. The psychiatrist had retired so I saw another psychiatrist who referred me to the Asperger's services.If this doctor just refers me back to these people, they will just refer me back to the psychiatrist again and recommend a further assessment for Asperger's. Most likely.Do they just want to keep me going round in circles? It is hit and miss with these people. Its like, they know I have Asperger's, they know CBT will not help me, but the doctors are to afraid to put their name on the diagnosis.
qwerty said: I hope you feel proud and happy with your achievements!
Thanks, I do not feel proud or happy as I should. People with higher intelligence and overachievers are held back.I now have debt and an achievement which can only lead to more study.Nobody likes to think that someone who is more intelligent than themselves, could have some kind of neurological disfunction. So most people would look at the achievement and say "there's nothing wrong with you!" I think this is the reason that nobody bothered to point me in the direction of an Asperger's assessment when it might have resulted in a diagnosis.
Cassandro said:Maybe the doctor has a personality disorder?
For example^Even the most talented and intelligent people do stupid things at times. Make stupid mistakes. Have an area where they just fail. I fail at socialising. Some people think I am stupid because of it, when I fail to click to their banter or whatever.All my achievement shows me is that I probably have Asperger's. All college gained me was a referral for an assessment. Perhaps the doctor felt that I was more intelligent than him? Who knows.
Yes, I was mindful of mindfulness when I wrote that. I'll try to watch the video, and have also been considering a Kabat-Zinn-style course. Does it not relate to your problems with the CBT then?
I have had the experience in a test situation of being forced to give a mood rating, choosing almost at random, and I think was able to access something then.
Cassandro That's Mindfulness.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG3fOOT7xWQI already do this naturally.
Asperger said:But I already think logically... The questionnaires I got from the CBT therapists were all full of emotional based questions. So much so that I even questioned the questionnaires rather than answering them. Then the therapist referred me for a diagnostic assessment for Asperger's.
Hmm....I think maybe the person isn't doing it right, or maybe your fit with the therapist just isn't good (I think it does depend a lot on personal traits of the therapist).It's possible that you already think logically, but there is more than one way to think logically. And if a "good" therapist can come up with another logical way of thinking that you agree with, but leads you to be happier, then that would be successful CBT.
Asperger said:I did not see this as unfair. I finished with a Distinction* grade. (note the star)
Sorry, I just meant to give some examples of what kinds of possible thoughts one can have with the situation, I didn't mean to imply that you were thinking that way. It's really good you got Distinction* and were able to help other students. You have really great ability and talent. I hope you feel proud and happy with your achievements!