Geographic Tongue/Bruxism (Teeth Grinding)

Yes.  I am a 57 year old female and I have both geographic tongue and bruxism.  I wear a night guard for the grinding and avoid food that burns my tongue.  Every day is different.  I also have an auto immune disease called Ulcerative colitis. I have Asperger's and Autism.

lilyswainson said:

My son was diagnosed with Geographic tongue at age three years old, autism at six years old and is now being tested for Chron's disease. No one else in our family has any of these conditions so I would be interested to know if there are many others who suffer from all?

I have all three and whilst I've got several family members on the spectrum, there's no one else in my family with a Crohn's.

I was diagnosed with Crohn's at 16, Geographic tongue at 22 and Aspergers at 27 and I grind my teeth when I'm tense - my orthodontic retainer is evidence of that. ;)

I didn't get a Autism diagnosis in the end (im being pointed towards a adhd referal. Although they said it would be done in a week (for the referal), I've been waiting 6).

Tho I've still got geographic tongue.

I don't have crohns.

My son was diagnosed with Geographic tongue at age three years old, autism at six years old and is now being tested for Chron's disease. No one else in our family has any of these conditions so I would be interested to know if there are many others who suffer from all?

I only do it nocturnally, so Im hoping just wearing a gaurd in my sleep will sort it out.

Goatworshiper said:

My dentist said I was definately teethgrinding and if it persists he will get a bite guard made for me. Im a bit funny with certain textures especially in my mouth so I'm a bit nervous about it.

 it does take a wee bit to get used to it, it feels like you have something stuck at your throat for a bit, but you DO get used to it, and its better doing that than it is grinding your teeth to nothing

tho i think if your grinding isnt affecing you and doesnt bother you it isnt a thing you need a guard for yet, so its always somethng you can put off,

but if your grinding starts to interfere in your life and or you feel pain/sensitivity its best to go get one

but instead of putting it in and keeping it in, try it at wee bits at a time, put it in, just sit with it, get used to it, then take it out till you can keep it in longer etc

the plastic stuff they use is kinda tough so you cant change it, but then it has to be so you dont bite through it (which i kinda do hahah)

My dentist said I was definately teethgrinding and if it persists he will get a bite guard made for me. Im a bit funny with certain textures especially in my mouth so I'm a bit nervous about it.

i have both , im an nt so for me its not related to autism

for my geographic tongue , i learned to deal with it as best as i could, after years of 'here try this' from the doctors/dentists,all they can and do give you is moutwash, tablets,numbing mouthwash, more tablets, and btw the tablets they said would help (sodium tablets if i remember right) made it worse

i have a good idea its to do with some kind of intolerance or allergy to some chemical in foods/drink and might be related to some kind of yeast inthe gut (i had helicobactor and the meds for that cleared it up, and it came right back after stopping)

as for grinding, im still trying to deal with that,not easy, that came after i took a certain medication and i cant seem to stop it ,

it sounds like you do have some kinda nerve problem too

i hope you get it all sorted

Mouth is still giving me problems. The GP says he can't see anything. Booked into the dentist for tuesday. My mouth and side of my face feel paralyzed/perisis/numb, but i can move all my facial muscles when I look in the mirror. But the side of my mouth looks different, slightly droopy.

No doubt this trip to the dentist will end up being costly.

I now dont know if this is teethgrinding, a trapped nerve or some kind of muscle deterioration.

Hello

I'm sorry  I personally dont know anything about Geographic tongue, I just wanted to respond to LaSpooney about chewing.

Here's a website article about chewing:

http://www.autism.org.uk/living-with-autism/understanding-behaviour/behaviour-common-questions-answered/my-daughter-likes-to-chew-on-pebbles.aspx

My daughter likes to chew a lot too, although she doesn't grind. She had an OT assesment which basically said that she needed to get a lot of sensory feedback in that area as she was undersensitive and she needs regular opportunities throughout the day to chew or have a rub on her face. We've got a box of things like chewy tubes, powder puff etc. She's happier, hasn't stopped her chewing everything else just yet though! Perhaps you could ask for an OT assessment?

Good luck.

Hope you're feeling better soon Goatworshipper.

Sandra - mod

Just revisiting this. I've started getting facial pains that feel like pressure in my mouth and side of face. I've taken a course of sudofed which has done no good, so its likely it isnt sinuses. I think I might be starting to get in the bad stages of teethgrinding which is really really depressing me. 

The thing is though, Hope, that science nevers deals in certainity. There is always doubt. And ignoring something because there's room for doubt is as blinkered as believing something irrespective of a lack of evidence.

All of science is based on the collection of increasing amounts of doubtful evidence until one has enough such doubtful evidence that the evidence outweighs the doubt.

Now, I don't think we've completely reached that point yet with the apparent comorbidity of Autism and autoimmune disorders, and I may well just have not seen any reports of any studies that go counter to that hypothosis, but, from what I have seen, there certainly seems to be growing evidence for it, and that, in and of itself, is highly suggestive that we will reach the point of the evidence outweighing the doubt before very long.

And again, that still wouldn't even imply a causal link. Just a correlation. But that correlation is interesting as it what it does imply is some kind of relationship, of the type I described in my earlier post, between the underlying genetic causes of the two seperate conditions.

Which can only be a good thing for the understanding of both sets of conditions.

Thanks for clarifying, Scorpion. However, what I was arguing against was precisely the view that auto-immune disorders are more likely in autism, and there is no conclusive evidence behind this statement; by conclusive, I mean the removal of all doubt.

I am glad you disagree with the medicalization of autism, but by suggesting people with autism are more likely to also be genetically predisposed to the medical conditions you mention, this does imply some pathology. Now, obviously, saying this is no argument against any evidence for a link, but the evidence in any case does not confirm any increased likelihood.

Hope said:

it is a mistake to jump to conclusions about the cause of ASC

Hope,

I'm not saying, or even suggesting, that this correlation does in any way suggest a causal link between auto-immune disorders and autism!

In fact, if I may quote from my first post in the thread:

Scorpion0x17 said:

It's only a correlation, so, having an autistic spectrum disorder doesn't imply that you will have an auto-immune disorder, nor does having an auto-immune disorder imply that you will have an autistic spectrum disorder.

But having an autistic spectrum disorder means you're more likely to also have an auto-immune system disorder.

I was stating the complete opposite! Note the words "It's only a correlation", thus implying "no causal link".

In fact the only serious studies I've seen to have even remotely suggested such a link have done so in the sense of asking the question "there appears to be a high correlation, could there be a causal link?" and all such studies that I've seen have come to the conclusion of "there's no clear evidence to support that hypothosis".

It is only, what I'll refer to as, the 'autism-is-a-disease-that-must-cured-mongers' that take that stance - but they take that stance with anything and everything - it used to be 'poor parenting', then it was 'diet', or 'vaccines', now it's 'autism is an auto-immune disorder'.

Yes, my little boy who is 5 has gone through phases of several months at a time of teeth grinding.  Our SALT was surprised when I said that I understood it was a "typical symptom" of autism despite the fact she's worked at several special schools especially with autistic kids.  Our boy is in one of his grinding phases at the moment which is supplemented with constant chewing of his clothes.  Any tips for managing this would be much appreciated.

The studies are very dodgy. Based as they are on personal recollections through the use of a questionnaire, the studies are retrospective, 'suggestive' and 'exploratory'. 

Referral bias is a real problem with these sorts of studies, and there is simply no conclusive evidence, yet; which is not say that no conclusive evidence will arise, but at present it is a mistake to jump to conclusions about the cause of ASC. And I am aware that genes do not work alone - see one of my posts in the 'extreme love' post-but this is precisely why autism is so complicated. Different things may 'trigger' autism in different people, excluding vaccines which the evidence is very clear on.

Hope said:

What is Geographic tongue?

According to Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographic_tongue

Its feel like some one has lacerated your tongue. I've tried dodging foods.

Families off, rather people with autism, but: http://jcn.sagepub.com/content/14/6/388.short and http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/124/2/687.short and http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-8749.2007.00429.x/full

A study of a variety of comorbidities with Autism: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0033224 - note particularly  inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) 0.83% vs. 0.54% (95% CI 0.13–0.43%) and diabetes mellitus type I (DM1) 0.79% vs. 0.34% (95% CI 0.3–0.6%) - both of which are predominantly autoimmune disorders.

Much more than that would require access to something like pubmed, which I don't have, and I suspect you don't have either, Hope.

As for peer-reviewed data, do you have access to pubmed?

Yes, Hope. But I think you misunderstand the way genes work. They don't work in isolation, but in combination with other. So there won't be a single gene (or even a number of single genes) that just cause autism, or any given auto-immune disorder. Rather it works something like this simplified example:

If you have Gene A and Gene B you have Asperger's, say.

If you have Gene A and Gene C you have Crohn's Disease, for example.

But if you have Gene A and neither Gene B nor Gene C you'll have neither Asperger's, or Crohn's Disease.

Similarly if you don't have Gene A then you can safely have both Gene B and Gene C and still not have either Asperger's or Crohn's.

So you end up with 8 possible combinations:

A+B+C = Asperger's and Crohn's

A+B+notC = Asperger's

A+notB+C = Crohn's

A+notB+notC = neither

notA+B+C = neither

notA+B+notC = neither

notA+notB+C = neither

notA+notB+notC = neither

Now, you'll see that 5 combinations result in neither Asperger's nor Crohn's (the last 5), 2 result in Crohn's, and 2 in Asperger's.

But here's the key bit - 1 of those combinations that results in Asperger's also results in Crohn's.

So your chance of having Crohn's if you don't have Asperger's is 1 in 6

But your chance of having Crohn's if you do have Asperger's is 1 in 2

And your chance of having Crohn's overall, irrespective of whether you have Asperger's or not is 1 in 4 (2 in 8)

I.e. You are more likely to have Crohn's if you have Asperger's.

(these are just made up of course, the real likelyhoods are likely to be different)