possible cause of autism?

TheCatWoman said:

What plants contain paracetamol?

I mis-quoted that when I wrote it, sorry. Paracetamol can be synthesized from plants - it is not actually naturally occurring. I can't find the page I read with the original quote.

The resins from pine seem to offer a viable alternative to crude oil.

TheCatWoman said:

autism and other ND's have been around for as long as our species has.

The problem with this statement is that we have no proof.

It is an assumption but not valid enough for science to be able to be able to incorporate in its methodology. It isn't pedantry, it is scientific method - the backbone on which all research is evaluated.

I agree it probably has been about for a very long time but science can only work using facts and these don't exist far enough back.

Other studies have indicated that around 80% of autism is linked to genetics. The role of environmental factors is in a minority, paracetamol must therefore be a minority of a minority, even if a causal connection is found. I have never heard of paracetamol having any effect on DNA.

So that would rather bust up the idea of a link between paracetamol and autism as autism and other ND's have been around for as long as our species has. Unless you wish to go down the scientifically pedantic route and claim that as there were no diagnostic tests we don't know if ND existed or not, but now we have tests and are finding more and more ND's in the general population.

What plants contain paracetamol?

TheCatWoman said:

If the active chemical in paracetamol is found widely around the world in plants,

This is true, but they are formed in minute quantities and are not enough to be harvested in any meaningful way to be use as a drug.

The main way of making it is from crude oil although recent advances in using bacteria (even e-coli!) are looking promising.

We probably have to be careful not to over claim.

But it certainly does no harm to be obsessively focussed on a limited number of things and to view things slightly differently.

Perhaps it was easier in the past, the pace of things was slower, there were no bright lights and loud sounds, nature was closer.

It was harder to hide than it is in a modern town, so there was more support I think.

Regardless of time period though, it does seem to take its toll if you have no-one to stop you overdoing it.

Is there a natural form of paracetamol, like there is for aspirin? Willow bark has been used for hundreds of years for pain relief, it contains the pain killing chemical that pharmacists use to make aspirin.

There are records going back centuries for the use of opiates, such as poppy and wild lettuce juice. THere are things like Devils claw that seem to have the same properties as ibuprofen.

If the active chemical in paracetamol is found widely around the world in plants, then it could be that theres a causal link to past and previous use, or it could be that the seperation of the active pain relieving chemical has left behind those that support it and don't cause side effects.

I agree, Catwoman. Psychologists now think that many famous historical figures were probably autistic, looking at the records of their behaviour. Most of these were brilliant in their field of knowledge, such as Einstein, Newton, Michelangelo, Darwin, Beethoven & Mozart.

I found this interesting article which details their behavioural traits that are probably due to autism:

https://sciencesensei.com/39-famous-historical-figures-who-may-be-autistic-according-to-modern-psychologists/

Paracetamol is so widely available and so commonly used that I really wonder if this isn't a false connection. I think that ND has been around as long as our species has roamed the planet. It was only in the 1970's that autism was starting to be recognised and then it was thought to be rare and was only really recognised in those most severly affected.

It wasn't until into the 2000's that it was started to be recognised in women.

I think there have been all sort of social conventions and prejudices in previous generations for ND not to be recognised. With regard to women things like shyness, even extreme shyness, not looking people in the eyes, being unable to utter more than a few words to a stranger were desirable. These women would of been good marriage prospects in a patriarchal society, they wouldn't talk back and would most likely agree with thier husbands edicts and choices, wouldn't be out gagging about and would probably be modest in their dress sense. 

Those of us who wouldn't or couldn't abide by these strictures probably ended up at the bottom of society.

But we know ND people have super concentration and perserverence with a chosen subject, I wonder how many things were invented or improved by ND people? How many ND's chose to work with animals, as grooms, hound keepers, dairy maids etc, there were probably more jobs that didn't require a great amount of education, but a lot of knowlege in a particular area, something autists are renowned for.

It’s like the MMR vaccine again I don’t believe these articles whatsoever. 

It’ll be interesting to find out if there ever is a concrete connection made. I know this is something the states are concentrating on highly at the moment. There is a strong genetic link that’s for sure as it’s quite common for many members of one family to have autism or related conditions. However establishing the cause of is harder to find out for sure.

There is a lack of conclusive evidence to it being man-made and without records going back far enough (where we can accurately diagnose people) it is hard to even establish how old autism actually is.

It could be it is natural but man-made chemicals make it more likely to happen, but at this stage we really don't know.

Do we think autism is a natural occurrence meaning nature decided it and that’s that or would it be environmentally created by man-made chemicals? 

Lotus said:

if it wasn't the cause of autism decades ago, how could it be increasing autism risk now?

It may not be simply the chemical in Paracetamol but the family of chemicals - the fact there seems a statistically significant connection is at least a clue for them to work on.

Anything that brings us a step closer to understanding the cause is a good thing I feel.

Good info.

That is a good point Lotus.

There might be a response to the original research in Nature Magazine and other peer reviewed journals within the next few weeks. It would be interesting to learn what experts in the field think of this research.  

Paracetamol was not available in UK without a prescription until 1988, so it's highly unlikely the mothers of us older autists would have taken it while pregnant. So if it wasn't the cause of autism decades ago, how could it be increasing autism risk now?

There seems to be a lot of "clutching at straws" or trying to blame someone /something because autism rates are rising. Whereas the reason is that many of us were missed when we were kids because it wasn't understood then, and more kids now are being diagnosed due to better understanding.

I am sceptical of the findings. I am not a scientist, but it seems to me that an association of autism and ADHD in babies born to mothers who took paracetamol in pregnancy doesn’t necessarily mean paracetamol caused autism.

The study isn’t without conflict of interest as the last paragraph of the paper in your second link states. 

This links to statement detailing the litigation. 
https://www.advancedtherapyclinic.com/blog/tylenol-autism-lawsuit

Yes I probably would, knowing that for me no other pain killer is available, what it dosen't say is does the woman have to be taking it for a prolonged period, or is a one off, normal every once in a while alright?

From my childhood memories paracetamol wasn't the pain killer of choice, it was aspirin that always seemed to be in peoples medicine chests, I dont' remember paracetamol being widely used until I was in my teens, although I know it was widely available.

Just looking it up on wikipedia, it said that theres been a very small study thats suggestive of paracetamol causing ND, but it needs much more research.

I have to say at the moment I'm sceptical, it could be another flap, people seem to be clutching at straws about finding "the cause" of ASC and ADHD and to be honest I don't think there is one, I think its probably genentic and more than 1 gene.

It is something that happens in the womb. Twin studies show it is not completely genetic, although as with most issues you need some predisposition.

The stressor is unclear and I suspect it has to happen in a critical window of time during development.

If it were something like paracetamol, why would one twin not be affected. Unless there is a placenta difference that allows more to one twin than the other.

I would not be surprised if painkillers had an effect as they affect my brain function, slow it down, less sharp and general fog.