Need to take an indefinite break

Firstly an apology to all. I can be overly sensitive when it comes to how the disabled/disadvantaged/disordered/ill/ vulnerable are treated. This may sound strange but I sometimes think attitudes to such groups were better in the early-mid 1970s than they are now. I lived in a small Essex village then, and it was well known that I had mental health problems. Nobody made fun of me.

As for the vouchers instead of PIP.If true I'm disappointed and angry about it. My biggest reservation re Labour was it's reluctance to say how the most vulnerable,those that unable to work, would be helped. I put it down to tactics to win the election. By the sound of things I was too trusting,too naive. I will never vote Tory, the Lib dems are too cynically opportunistic.In light of the stance on PIP,again if true, Labour are just less bad.Vouchers for specific things  as a disabled/disadvantaged/disordered/ill/ vulnerable basically means you don't deserve to enjoy those things that makes life more pleasurable.Those things that technically one can do without ,but are essential for a better quality of life It's a cold,puritanical,uncivilised, and cruel, way of treating those who, through no fault of their own, have done less well in the genetic lottery of life.

firemonkey said:

Vouchers for specific things  as a disabled/disadvantaged/disordered/ill/ vulnerable basically means you don't deserve to enjoy those things

Bingo!

The vouchers are not given to make you enjoy anything - that is purely a pleasure thing.

They are there to stop you suffering - a nuance perhaps but a very important one.

firemonkey said:

I put it down to tactics to win the election

I think it is exactly that - they avoided making explicit promises around the subject, relying on all the feel good factor of getting the clowns out of power so they could slide in their in their own size 72 shoes and red noses.

The disabled just do not make up a large enough voting base to merit the cost that this sort of payment would require - and remember it is the same cost year after year so we continue to be a drag on the economy.

It is sad, but like most things in politics, it is entirely predictable.

Iain said:

They are there to stop you suffering - a nuance perhaps but a very important one.

But you can also suffer mentally/psychologically from a lack of enjoyment.

Iain and I have strong views on the  matter. That is not a major problem in itself. A problem does arise when one of those persons decides to respond in a condescending manner to the other, as Iain did with me. To be totally fair Iain's not the only  person who's ever behaved that way towards me. I've had people tell me I'm stupid through to a person with a very high psychologist tested IQ describe me as 'I believe you are underestimating yourself  most of the time,your potential is huge'.  

I seem to attract a wide range of views as to how smart I am, from idiot to genius . Neither idiot or genius being accurate  re my intellectual capabilities.   I don't have the level of creativity that's needed to be a genuine  genius. 

DON'T YOU ACCUSE ME OF WISE WORDS!! That's fighting talk that is!  

You just elucidated the entire point of my little screed. 

Every time I'm in that position, I ALWAYS keep in mind the possibilty that no matter how SURE I AM of my position, I could be wrong.

Don't get your coat yet, you are one of the Adults in the conversation...

I'm optimistic that the "Adults" on the forum can whomp up some tools that will genuinely help the more fragile and unhappy members (I've got a foot in both camps, I feel) to live slightly happier and better lives, and from my perspective that could be a fun and interesting thing to put some time and effort into.  

Disclaimer: I've been smoking a strain that makes me feel more optimistic and benevolent than I did before. If the stuff was legalised, I could share the name here, and the other pot users could compare notes. Unlike alocohol, or other drugs, cannabis is a complex of compounds, and diffeent "brands" or "types" really do have quite different effects. Some long term users or addicts or beneficiaries (whatever term fits your belief system) even have a "Day Dope" and a "Night Dope".

Most of us however just get whatever selection (if you are lucky!) of strains the growers decided to do, and the dealer is often mainly concerned with matters of money and survival. My source is actually interested in the medical aspects and genuinely benevolent in intent and actions and carries himself more like a benevolent shopkeeper than the criminal that he also sadly is... But it's worth me giving him the feedback that "this one really seems to help with the autism" and in time he will tell me whether his other Autistc clients agree. 

So I did that and he gave me the information that ownership of a can-card effectively decriminalises my sensible medical use of the substance!! He confimed that I am smoking an American bred strain called "Biscotti" and reminded me that I commented on it last time I had it.

My selection is normally entirely decided on what "works best but costs the least" which is a medical/fincial compromise, rather than "what's the best one you have today" when I fancy and can afford a bit of "recreational" use.

After talking to my chap I now realise I can work legitimately with other autistic pot smokers to work out what works best for us, and see the PURCHASE and subscription to the cancard organsiation as less of a tax, and more as an opportunity to put my pot smoking habit to actual good use for the Autistic community! 

Obviously, I need to wait for the effects to wear off and consider the idea from the more grumpy perspective that is my uninfluenced ground point, before taking any action, but after many decades of soliciting friends and families points of view, teh genral view sems to be that it makes me more ineffective and it's not respectable behaviour but it does make me way more generally "tolerable" but defineitely not more "reliable". 

Obviously it's not an ideal solution, but at least my life is generally tolerable to others, and that in turn takes a great deal of load off me, by taking personal, and legal and physical conflicts largely out of my life which makes me more harmless both to self and others in my experience.    

I Sperg said:

the stronger I am feeling about the issue, the more time I should take before responding

Wise words.

I'll follow this advice and disengage on the subject of disability payments.

Mark (formerly Spikey) said:

"two men think they're Jesus" - could be a bad example, as they are both wrong.

I have 2 contractors who are called Jesus - seriously.

It is quite a common name here in Brazil.

But you are right, they are most often wrong, especially when it comes to their choice for the right way to plumb in a sink...

"two men think they're Jesus" - could be a bad example, as they are both wrong. I'll get my coat...

Firemonkey, firstly, I'd like to extend respect to your pushing aside your frustration and continuing to educate us about this matter from your perspective in a calm and interesting manner, without resorting to name calling or other sillyness. 

Iain views the matter from a different perspective as do I. (Mine is probably not quite the same as Iains of course).

We are thus faced with what looks to be a paradox, and those are actually PAINFUL to the Autistic mind are they not??

As Dire Straits put it so eloquently, "two men think they're Jesus, one of them must be wrong.."

We are all human though, and my experince of being human is that such clarity as I feel today can be easily lost by waking up in a bad mood and finding some bloody autist seemingly picking fault with me on this site!!

The golden rule that keeps MY sanity vaguely intact and stops me running away from this site, is that the stronger I am feeling about the issue, the more time I should take before responding, with a really high quality reply. Sometimes that means I abruptly break off from an engagement and never return to it for a variety of reasons... 

I understand where you're coming from. Contrary to your condescending tone, I'm not stupid. 

Iain said:

intended to help working age adults with the extra costs of living with a health condition or a disability.

That's vague and open to interpretation  as to what's needed  to live adequately well  with a health condition or disability.  Part of PIP is to help with socialising. Whatever your ability to socialise is you aren't going to do much socialising if you don't have the financial wherewithal to do so.

firemonkey said:

There was nothing intelligent and sensible in your accusation of 'missing the point'

I'm sorry you feel this way. Let me expain it to see if this helps you understand.

You initially made this point

firemonkey said:

Vouchers for specific things  as a disabled/disadvantaged/disordered/ill/ vulnerable basically means you don't deserve to enjoy those things that makes life more pleasurable

To which my response was that the government are not in the business in making life pleasurable - their remit for the voucher scheme it to stop suffering.

Not suffering is not the same as having pleasure - it is where the dial swings to if you have enough surplus to allow the luxury of pleasure. With times as tough nationally as they are, there is no surplus to enable this.

It would be nice, but it is not the purpose of the scheme. Looking at Wikipedia it says the scheme is:

intended to help working age adults with the extra costs of living with a health condition or a disability.

They talk about it supporting living with a disability, not taking enjoyment.

I feel we may be talking at cross purposes because I agree that a surplus can bring pleasure and this is a nice thing.

firemonkey said:

There was nothing intelligent and sensible in your accusation of 'missing the point'

I'm sorry you feel this way. Let me expain it to see if this helps you understand.

You initially made this point

firemonkey said:

Vouchers for specific things  as a disabled/disadvantaged/disordered/ill/ vulnerable basically means you don't deserve to enjoy those things that makes life more pleasurable

To which my response was that the government are not in the business in making life pleasurable - their remit for the voucher scheme it to stop suffering.

Not suffering is not the same as having pleasure - it is where the dial swings to if you have enough surplus to allow the luxury of pleasure. With times as tough nationally as they are, there is no surplus to enable this.

It would be nice, but it is not the purpose of the scheme. Looking at Wikipedia it says the scheme is:

intended to help working age adults with the extra costs of living with a health condition or a disability.

They talk about it supporting living with a disability, not taking enjoyment.

I feel we may be talking at cross purposes because I agree that a surplus can bring pleasure and this is a nice thing.

I understand where you're coming from. Contrary to your condescending tone, I'm not stupid. 

Iain said:

intended to help working age adults with the extra costs of living with a health condition or a disability.

That's vague and open to interpretation  as to what's needed  to live adequately well  with a health condition or disability.  Part of PIP is to help with socialising. Whatever your ability to socialise is you aren't going to do much socialising if you don't have the financial wherewithal to do so.