Is Aspergers the next evolutionary step for humans?

I think that AS is a dead end in evolution like pterosaurs were. Modern day birds and bats are not related to or descended from pterosaurs. It is a clade that became completely extinct with no descendants. That tiny firecrest in the hedgerow is descended from theropod dinosaurs and is genetically closer to a T Rex than any pterosaur.

It's not looking likely that AS is an evolutionary dead end. First of all, because it seems to be pretty intrinsic genetically. Second, because it has no bearing on survival to sexual maturity. Last, it doesn't hinder the ability to find / consume food or other resources necessary for life.   

It's not looking likely that AS is an evolutionary dead end. First of all, because it seems to be pretty intrinsic genetically. Second, because it has no bearing on survival to sexual maturity. Last, it doesn't hinder the ability to find / consume food or other resources necessary for life.   

Haha I love reading your comments as well Lonewarrior. 

Hi BlueRay, quick question for you.?

Did you happen to climb into my head at some point when I wasn’t looking?

You would be amazed at how much you think is shared by me,

However I still have responsibilities which have to be maintained, Yes as the responsibilities are towards others that are deserving of my continued support.

Doesn’t mean my thoughts are any different though.

keep talking I enjoy reading a lot of what I myself seem unable to share right now.

x()x

I like that ~ a world that’s already overpopulated with largely identical humans! I don’t think the world is overpopulated. Overpopulated for what?

Overpopulated for the other lifeforms we share the planet with and overpopulated for sustainable quality of human life.The vast majority of vertebrate biomass is now either human beings or their domesticated animals, and we're pushing both hunter-gatherer humans and our great ape cousins to the brink of extinction. The more humans, the more pollution and the less space, food and clean water and air for each. Check our Earth Overshoot Day, planetary boundaries and Population Matters. Why do you think the world might not have a chance?

And I say 'largely identical' on the basis that there have been bottlenecks in humans' recent evolutionary past and all Europeans are descended from a few thousand settlers during the glacials. By having children, we shouldn't get the idea that we're preserving any rare genetic heritage, autistic or not, and of all the reasons for human extinction, not having children is one of the least likely. But yes, cultural homogenisation, mass media and globalised Macdonalds also contribute to human uniformity at expense of biodiversity. So I have reasons to prefer being childless and to wish it were more common.

In return I was tickled by your 'hard work' sounds too much like hard work. In an ideal world work should be pleasurable, or not exist at all. On how Universal Basic Income (or Citizens' Income) might provide freedom and reduce discrimination for autistic people, see this essay by Dinah Murray.

I don’t want anything universal, apart from the universal laws that operate in society whether we like them or not. 

I’m certainly not a fan of hard work, that sounds too much like hard work to me  but it seems to work well for some people, so it’s good for those who it works for. I’m more a fan of doing only what you love, doing only what brings joy, peace and harmony into your life.  I don’t understand why some people think we were given a life, just to work hard for all of the life, for what? Doing what you love isn’t hard work so why not just do that? Unless you love hard work of course, and then the idea of hard work would certainly work for you. 

I don’t recognise societal man made laws in society, they don’t mean anything to me, I see them as simply guidelines for people who can’t think for themselves. I say just do what you love and be happy in life, there’s no hard work required and it doesn’t matter how much or how little money you have or how many other humans you have in your life or how you to look to the rest of society because you’re happy, so you don’t care about those things. You don’t care about capitalism or income tax, you’re too busy being happy to think about things like that. Unless of course, those are the very things that bring you joy and if so, then knock yourself out, go for it, become an ardent leader of capitalism, whatever that means. I don’t understand those terms and have no desire to, I see me understanding them as having no benefit to me but if I do ever need to understand them, then that is when I will educate myself on their meaning. 

I discussed the issue of capitalism and Calvinism with MattBucks a few months ago. He is a strong advocate of hard work and earning your way in life even if it's a wage slave.

http://community.autism.org.uk/f/adults-on-the-autistic-spectrum/11438/government-treatment-of-asperges/60155#60155

Some of the stuff he has said about income tax is questionable and he clearly underestimates the effects of automation on the job market and the tax base in the future.

I'm very strongly in favour of a Universal Basic Income myself.

I like that ~ a world that’s already overpopulated with largely identical humans! I don’t think the world is overpopulated. Overpopulated for what? But yes, each country or society etc has its own identity, let’s say, and because most people don’t think for themselves, they go along with what socity tells them to do, so yeah, you get a world full of identical people. I have never thought of it like that before and it proper tickled me, thanks for that and  thank god for autistics, the world might have a chance after all! 

Just because ‘society’ values financial wealth in life, above all else, it doesn’t mean that’s it’s right. And I would question what ‘society’ actually is. Who is it exactly who is saying that your value in life is based on how much money you earn? If somebody said that to me I would probably just look at them as if they had said the most ridiculous thing in the world and I would probably change the subject abruptly into something a little more fun because how can you have a sensible conversation with somebody who thinks that mans worth in life is to simply work like a slave all your life, to make somebody or yourself rich in money. That’s insane and I don’t think I’d bother discussing such matters with an insane person.

Although i do think some of the genes associated with AS must have been selected for, I agree that AS itself isn't likely to have been. It doesn't appear to confer an advantage overall. I wouldn't want to be any different as I would then not be 'me', but I certainly think my life would have been easier and more economically successful without AS.  

Your post may raise some unpalatable ideas regarding what makes a person valuable to / in society as a whole but I can't disagree with it. Lower income does affect health outcomes whether we like it or not and the global society we live in now certainly doesn't make allowances for anyone who can't keep up. 

As I say elsewhere on this thread, in so far as there are autistic genes, they may be advantageous (particularly if heterozygous), but not necessarily to the autistic person. Most autistic people are labelled as such because the disadvantages outweigh the advantages at that point.

Good to hear you've not had problems with finding adult relationships. Of the autistic people I've met who are parents, most seem to have come to call themselves autistic or get a diagnosis because one or more of their children have been diagnosed and they recognise the same traits in themselves - I also see more women in that group than men. But well over half of autistic people (inc Aspies) I know have been single for a very long time and maybe never dated, or some have married without offspring. Not being able to tolerate living with someone, being hypersensitive to touch, not having the social skills or confidence to meet someone (that mostly refers to under-confident straight men), being terrified of sex or just being asexual or trans or non-binary, being too obsessed in special interests to care about either relationships or practical matters... these would all seem to diminish the possibility of reproducing. It's seems to be generally recognised that Aspies tend to start having relationships later, maybe by about 10 years, so that also reduces average number of offspring. I'm probably too old now, and despite liking and getting on with kids, I don't think it's responsible to bring my own into a world that's already overpopulated with largely identical humans.

My theory is based on economics. In Britain, and even more so the US, society measures a person's true value by their economic value. Although it's a bit unpleasant to say so, the ultimate skill to have is the skill how to make money using any legitimate means. They may be a businessman, a professional, an investor, or a gambler who almost always wins.

If AS was an advancement in evolution then people with the condition would overwhelmingly be making millions regardless of the family or area that they were born in. They aren't and they are statistically more likely to be unemployed or underemployed than NT with a similar level of education and qualifications. I think it's probably safe to say that people with AS who mastered basic education and had some commercial skills could easily have entered the middle class in terms of income or occupation during the 1950s and 60s with its Keynesian economics and controlled capitalism, but since 1980ish the economy has changed in a way that disfavours people with AS and favours people with a mindset of Richard Branson or Arthur Daley out of minder.

Considering the rise in hate towards the unemployed, benefits claimants, and the poor in general over the past 10 or so years, then society is patently moving in a direction where those who lack the skills and the ability to make money are deemed to be failures regardless of what other skills and abilities they possess. A person with a PhD in maths or physics who can't get a job or make self employment work for them is no more valuable than a person in their 50s who is functionally illiterate and innumerate who dropped out of school and lived off benefits all their life.

I don't know. Not in my experience but I don't know what everyone else's experience is.

I did't want serial partners during most of the years my contemporaries were pairing off repeatedly / hooking-up / whatever it's called now, but my un-diagnosed AS didn't seem to stop there being just as many opportunities as other people around me. 

I've had three long-term (4 - 18 years) relationships as an adult, which is quite enough for me, so I'd have to say that finding a partner hasn't been difficult despite AS.    

It makes it harder to find a partner though, doesn't it?!