Root canal or extraction?

You’re very welcome! Yeah the fewer trips the better lol! Thing that actually scares me the most in the dentist is the jab! But I normally have the numbing gel to help with that anyway haha! Hope your trip and procedure goes well either way! 

M gr, gr aunt used to oik her teeth out with a knitting needle rather than go to the dentist, but then she started doing that back in the day when the drills were opperated by a treedle like sewing machines and anesthesia wasn't so good.

It's my DiL's family who are in India, so if I went it would be to the same one her family use and they do seem quite good. The problems for me are getting there, I'd need a block and tackle to get me off the plane as I would have stiffened up to much to be able to move after a flight of that length. I'm also a bit wary about the number of allergies I have and would they be willing to cope with them? Especially with the language barrier, although from what I gather most educated Indians have quite good English.

I will probably end up having to wait a year or two until I can see the comunity dentist again, I saw them before, but the waiting times are horrendous. 

You’re very possibly right. I always think of what Thich Nhat Hanh / Plum Village monastics say : “It is the nature of being human to get sick, it is the nature of being human to die”. Apparently they say something to this affect to themselves more than once a day so that they can reach a point of acceptance and non fear about it. I think in the West we in some ways live in denial and under the delusion that we can somehow escape these things by ‘doing this or that’  - but ultimately- no matter what healthy lifestyle we have - it’s going to happen. We had a guy in our village who was hugely active, long cycle rights all the time with all the kit, lean as a hare, healthy diet , cheerful relaxed nature - yet he had a heart attack and died relatively young. Whereas my Mother-in-Law was very sedentary, had a far from healthy diet, was overweight for most of her life, and claimed she rarely brushed her teeth - and she lived to 89 very happily and died with most of her teeth. She used to say that “the plaque protects them”! She did go to the dentist for checks up regularly though and the dentist would “chip off the plaque” so she said! Late in life she walked incredibly slowly and I asked her “are you in pain? and she just laughed an said “not at all”! I’m just hoping my children have inherited some of her ‘magic’ genes and that they have similar good fortune with their health. 

Kate Kestrel said:

she even said she’d have to refer me to another dentist with more expertise in root canals as she felt it was a little beyond her competency. Bit odd!

Some teeth have curved roots and these are really tricky to clean all the nerve tissue out of. It is a really fiddly process (I've had quite a lot done with curved roots) as the tiny files they use can get jammed in there and need an experienced touch to be able to wiggle free without breaking the file off.

It is common for dentists to refer root canals to specialists partly for this reason and partly because it is quite a complicated process that they may lack practice with.

It is good she knows her limits though - better this than a gung-ho practicioner who will try their luck...

So many visits for you  - that’s not what anyone would want is it?! You did incredibly well to tolerate all of that  I must say - I’m really glad it was worth it in the end for you. The best thing is when it’s all over isn’t it?! What a relief that is! I’m seeing the dentist again next week - so I imagine she’ll explain it to me more later. TBH though I think I’ve largely made up my mind to go for an extraction as it has three roots and is right at the back - she even said she’d have to refer me to another dentist with more expertise in root canals as she felt it was a little beyond her competency. Bit odd! The thing is she is so incredibly friendly and nice - she has the most lovely way with her - but my youngest son said “well she may be nice but that doesn’t necessarily mean she’s a competent dentist” - which is true - the two things don’t automatically go together do they?! 
Thanks again for sharing your experience and for being so supportive :) 

Yes - at his work my husband has to ask some people for their date of birth and he still sometimes does a double take as to him the date they sometimes give feels like yesterday! 
Re. the aging process - it surely is a strange one. We are thinking of moving to a different part of the uk soon and are looking at local services in various places - I said to my husband last night : “I’m not sure we can move there because it’s an hour from the nearest A & E” - we had a laugh about it because it implied a rather doom laden vision of our ‘fresh start’ in a new place! I was conjuring visions of heart attacks and strokes - not a very optimistic outlook! To be fair it was very late at night - never a good time for thinking about these things! I very often have to remind myself to live in the moment and not get into that train of thinking. I lost both my parents this year and last year - and it’s a sobering thing to experience. You have to treasure every day really - whenever possible. 
i struggle to give up wine though - that’s a ‘vice’ that I can’t sacrifice to my wish to have a healthy lifestyle and be on this beautiful planet for as long as possible. After all the point is to enjoy it too isn’t it - not just prolong it! 

Kate Kestrel said:

my problems with this tooth started 3 weeks after my check up and clean - and when she cleaned my teeth it hurt a lit more than it usually does - it was really painful. I can’t help but wonder if her being over zealous around my gum line could have caused this infection.

I suspect there was a cavity in the tooth but it was blocked by tartar so when it was cleaned away it allowed bacteria into the cavity that then became infected.

They were most likely the trigger but the underlying cause would have already been there.

I find it very frustrating too - I still maintain that dental health should be treated the same as any other kind of health and be free at the point of access - especially as there is increasing evidence that dental health effects other aspects of our health - such as heart health. The costs make it completely out of reach for many people - thankfully I have a bit of savings from what my parents left me - otherwise I’d be panicking about the costs. There have been countless times in my life when there was no way I could have afforded it. It’s not right. Re. your hygienist - my problems with this tooth started 3 weeks after my check up and clean - and when she cleaned my teeth it hurt a lit more than it usually does - it was really painful. I can’t help but wonder if her being over zealous around my gum line could have caused this infection. It’s all very dispiriting isn’t it? But I keep telling myself that in some countries seeing a dentist might be completely unattainable - and also previous generations probably had it much worse. We must take comfort from that I guess. I just find anything remotely medical in nature very traumatic because when I was 18 months old I spent 3 months in hospital - and had years of follow up appointments afterwards. It was at a time when mothers couldn’t stay in hospital overnight with their children and my mum told me the hospital had to sedate me slightly so that they could leave me because I was so hysterical when they went to leave me. So it’s all very triggering for me - just the sight and smell of medical places gives me a gut reaction of fear. 
I think it’s given me trust issues too. I realise that in not being old enough to understand why I was having the operation and treatment I probably just thought ‘this is a place where horrible people cause you pain’ - and these things get into the subconscious don’t they? It’s hard to undo trauma from such an early age. 
Is your family dentist in India very good? You hear horror stories of people going abroad for medical procedures - but if your family really know and trust this dentist then it would make sense (if you were going to visit them anyway). 

Kate Kestrel said:

I still find it hard to think of ‘the turn of the century’ as the most recent ‘turn’!

Oh don't go there!

When I think about people born after the turn I realise that they are now adults and some starting their own families - it kicks hard if you dwell too long on it.

For me the single biggest issue is that my body is now starting to show signs of aging beyond the simple damage of bad living - stuff that is related to the change you go through at this time of life (probably the male menopause / andropause for me) where you have to work so much harder to be able to keep doing the things you always took for granted.

Bah, I'll fight the aging by tooth and claw all the way to the end LOL.

It’s funny - I still find it hard to think of ‘the turn of the century’ as the most recent ‘turn’! For a minute I thought you might be 140 years old

Wow Iain - you have achieved so much!  Sometimes I forget that some autistic people can really function incredibly well in this society despite the challenges of being neurodivergent. My eldest (also autistic)  did so well academically (he went to Oxford Uni) but he found the workplace much more challenging and decided to return to academia - he is currently doing a PHD. His PHD is going well but he is still daunted by certain kinds of work culture and the social demands of working in certain sectors. It’s encouraging to hear of people like you on here that find a path of employment where they can do so well. I must add though that having said that it’s no judgement on those that struggle to do that - I’d include myself and my youngest in that camp and I think it’s important to also be forgiving of ourselves for struggling in a paid work environment. Thankfully my husband as a ‘regular’ job - so we do ok as a team together. 
Thank you again for your help on here - you’re always such a good source of information and advice on here and it’s really appreciated :) 

Kate Kestrel said:

It’s weird because looking online it says you can see a tooth infection on x ray. I’m so fed up with it. 

It can be difficult as the infection can be inside the root of the tooth rather than in the bone so it won't show up clearly in a simple contract x-ray and a more involved scan is cost prohibitive, so they have to do a "best-guess" approach in these situations.

There is a good explanation of the treatment of infected teeth here:

https://www.ballantyneendo.com/dental-emergencies/can-a-tooth-infection-be-cured-with-antibiotics/

I note the part about draining infections is another good reason for having the dental dam - you probably don't want all that puss going into your mouth.

The tablet antibiotocs are more to deal with secondary infections while the packing of the tooth with specific antibiotics will deal with the core issue.

Kate Kestrel said:

Now the pain has gone and the swelling has largely gone

That is a really good sign that they got it right. It can take a week or two to return to more normal levels and longer to be no longer noticable but it seems they have nipped it in the bud.

Kate Kestrel said:

You obviously travel a lot Iain :) 

A combination of being responsible for the IT on different continents for some big companies and having to recruit local support staff to replace me when I left, helping my wife with her fashion business and running trade booths around the world and taking the few remaining days off to explore the world (my wife is the one who wanted to see exotic places all the time).

I also ran an IT import/export business as a sideline for a while so was often travelling to pick up certain high value items by hand, but that was less fun.

I probably have a carbon footprint the size of London by this point in time

That’s sounds alarming. Mine was left for longer than was ideal because the dentist couldn’t identify the tooth that was the cause of the pain, and prescribed antibiotics, it improved a little and then got worse, and then on the second appointment with a different dentist she couldn’t identify the tooth either and recommended Sensitivity Toothpaste - and then a few days later it was absolute agony. She then ‘

- after loads of tapping on my teeth and trying to work out which it was - took out the filling from the tooth and put a dressing in and prescribed stronger antibiotics. Tbh I’m not very impressed with them. Now the pain has gone and the swelling has largely gone - but I just hope that we’ve identified the right tooth. It’s weird because looking online it says you can see a tooth infection on x ray. I’m so fed up with it. 

You obviously travel a lot Iain :) 

Like you, I don't care about my smile, I just want to be able to eat and chew with my teeth, but that dosent' seem to be enough these days, dentists seem less a part of a health service, whether NHS or private and more part of the beauty industry. 

I actually prefer having teeth out to having them filled, but then the sound and vibrations of the drill cause me the distress, almost to the point of screaming, although obviously having teeth filled is better having less teeth. There can be problems with having teeth out, like infection and something called dry socket, which is supposed to be really painful.

They always want me to see hygenists, who I refuse to see, I've had some really bad experiences with them where things were made worse not better.

The cost of dentistry in this country is shocking too, £250 per filling is the average here and many won't even consider you as a patient unless you sign up to a payment plan. As the paying customer I want more say over my treatment, I want the ability to shop around and not have this cartel telling me what I've got to have or they either won't treat me or will only do the most basic treatment, usually removing teeth as a sort of punishment for not doing as they say. 

I could go to India to the families dentist there and have my whole mouth fitted with implants for the cost of one, maybe two done here. I mean how many people can realistically afford 5k a tooth?

Well I was told the rubber dam thing was legal requirement but I opted not to have so if you did in the end decide root canal, you could ask not to have the rubber dam. I must admit I don’t think I would have had my root canal done if I was forced to use the rubber dam but thankfully I didn’t need it. That could have been why I was having to make a few visits though as the dentist and nurse had to spend time irrigating my tooth but that could have been the case anyway. Are you able to ask your dentist for more details before you go ahead with whichever procedure you choose? 

Hope you like Kirby x 

Thanks - to be honest I can’t remember when I last had a tooth out - I had my wisdom tooth out but it was under general anaesthetic so I have little information to go on. My son had a molar out recently though and even though he said it was ‘brutal’ (the tooth broke) he said it wasn’t actually that painful and he healed quickly and well. Part of me thinks that as dentists make so much more money from complex treatments and multiple visits that they’re hardly objective. And maybe it’s just part of getting older and sort of natural to lose the odd tooth. Seems very bad that they left the roots in when they took your teeth out - that’s crazy isn’t it?! The tooth involved had the filling replaced in April - so I’m wondering if my dentist did a poor job and that’s why it’s now got infected. Plus the dentist seemed unable to tell which tooth it was - which is also odd as an infection should show up on the x ray surely? I wish I had more faith in them. But ultimately when my face started swelling up I was very glad to get to the dentist - I was quite scared by that. Thanks for your help :)

A legal requirement? How strange. I always have that same thing at the dentist - I feel the need to swallow but it’s so difficult and uncomfortable when they’re doing treatment - and I slightly panic too. I don’t think I’m really brave enough to put myself through the root canal. The length of time, the extended intrusion and weird hints like clamps and rubber collars - it sounds like torture almost to me tbh. Thank goodness I asked on here because I think I’d have had a hell of a shock if I turned up not knowing about all of this. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you sharing all of this! Thanks so much! 

Thanks for the clarification. Even just the names of these things creep me out tbh. I’m definitely leaning towards the extraction option. I so appreciate everyone’s help on here  - because whatever option I go for it’s massively helpful to know what to expect so I can try to prepare myself. The dentist said I can choose but she didn’t tell me anything about the harsh reality - possibly because a dentist most likely wants you to choose the most expensive option. Thank you so much for your help :) 

I’ll check it out - thank you! :) Good luck with your parents! 

I’ve got two options of crowns, the silver one which I get on nhs or the white one which is going to cost like £695 but the prices are rising to £745 in February I think! I’m trying to convince my parents to help me with the private option but I’m failing big time lol

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8jusrh 

Here’s the Kirby episode