help infant has autism please help

sorry ADD  =  i get distracted so easily

I meant to tell you the cake company

WWW.healthycakecompany.co.uk  Trisha  was very helpful  - we contacted her  initially by phone call - then text messages - then we sent emails,  we were very impressed with the service they provided

anyone else got any useful ideas  - we got to sort christmas and birthday presents out - be really helpful to list some useful products or gift ideas -

maybe someone could start a new thread -  a christmas gift ideas thread?

 just a thought - as I had a parent ask us this morning  -what do we think their child would like for christmas?

I am  relly sorry if i caused anyone any upset etc. I not mean any harm

I just trying to help - i love helping and volunteer my time all over the place

I am so glad i posted here

and wow you all know so much about this

thank you all for contributing

I understand now about being born with ASD

I looked back over infants behaviour since been with us and yes, you 100% right

we never thought the behaviours were ASD behaviours,

thought behaviours were just personality traits

and the fact that it was infants age

plus being a younger sibling causes some  behaviours that we dont see in  the "only child"  situation

we looking at this situation differently now - thankyou all so much

i not want to stress the infant, so will now avoid the  spray foam - thanks for that

we went soft play today - infant enjoys this- i worried as we went to a different place not our usual one

we observed - - -  as soon as infant showed  stress  - we intervened - and ensured infant was feeling safe and secure - worked brilliantly - so chuffed that the infant was able to enjoy so much of the session

please any ideas keep them coming

cant remember if i told u about a 13yr old we care for?

 has aspergers or aspergers has him? i sorry i not politically correct pls educate me

He never had a shop bought birthday cake - we sorted it and put it on expenses - we didnt tell the family how much it was - he posted a photo on facebook told his friends he had a proper birthday cake - bless him -

money isnt the issue here - its all about finding out what a child needs and how best to support them so they develop to their fullest potential - hope that makes sense

we now know -  thanks to you all - that we need to learn more about asd

so theory has it that - infant enjoys water play - will still love water play - and we have confirmed that this is the case  we will keep working on all the different things that  the infant enjoys and I sure we will make good progress

gonna get some food  - I  message u later - thanks

PREVENTIONISBETTERTHANCURE said:

I will put the spray foam out each day see if will de-sensitise

It won't. I have been sensitive to light for the last 12 years. (nothing to do with my Autism, btw) Exposing me to too much light is physically painful; as is exposing me to too much noise, too much loud noise and certain noises.

If someone has sensory issues, you should work around them and try to make everything easier for them. For example, I have had to ask that some lights are switched off; as it's too much light.

Hi everyone,

A few points from me as moderator:

Firstly, I'm not about to shut this discussion down, so don't worry and don't stop.

Secondly, please be civil. Asking other people to leave the forum isn't acceptable. Telling other people they're stupid isn't acceptable. Please don't post in ALL CAPS, or use loads of exclamation marks. These things make it look like you're shouting, and nobody wants someone else shouting in their face.

Thirdly, as the saying goes, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. The NAS's general position on the causes of autism can be found on the website. In short - the causes of autism are not fully understood, but all the causes that we do understand are genetic. The NAS advises that gastro-intestinal problems in people on the spectrum should be treated just the same, and just as seriously, as in anyone else. There is no credible evidence that gastro-intestinal problems cause autism.

Konstantin Monastyrsky is not a qualified professional in the field of autistic spectrum disorders. To the best of my knowledge he has only an undergraduate degree in pharmacy, and makes his living as a computer programmer. He appears to have made some extravagant claims of causal links between diet and several medical conditions, including autistic spectrum disorders, multiple sclerosis, and infertility. He appears never to have produced a scientific paper on the subject, and as such, his opinions have never been subject to scientific peer review.

Many thanks for all your contributions.

Best wishes,

Alex R - mod

yes rash is me & big feet in my mouth too

I always in a rush to get something finished

but find myself doing ten things at once

thats what ADD does for me :-(

I just want to help people - but you have all helped me more!!

Thank you

I have so much to learn - where is good place to start?

I look all over and get distracted I cant focus on one topic.

The infant loves animals so i am setting all them out for play, hide some in shredded paper see what happens, encourage hide & seek play. plus try singing action songs at home in a smaller group.

I will put the spray foam out each day see if will de-sensitise, I will model how to play with it, if this causes upset I will remove it & replace with chalk & paper or try paints.

any ideas pls?

 - the older sibling has asd, was often upset, we used a daily photo planner which helped straight away- realised the child needed to sit in the front seat of car next to adult, not next to a potentialy noisy child - the child let us in to their world,lined up cars, spining things,throwing things over the fence, my neighbour keeps throwing stuff back bless em, plus the child had lots intervention & support which helped a great deal. lots of activities with photos, sharing games with other children, reading stories, it took some time before the child could join in the toddler group song time, child started off in another room, each week we encouraged him gently to move closer to the rest of the group. there seems to be no rule book with asd  - the younger sibling will be totally different. that is if it is asd??

our first thought was maybe prob with the ears and balance, but lots other behaviours have occured symultaneously, the loss of balance plus the sensory issues, the deteriation of social skills, the upset if routines change & hand flapping is there something else this could be? as there is family member with asd too.

we have to leave it to the referral see what they recommend, although it may be some months before the infant gets the two to three year HV check. we will push for sooner!

The syllogism ''all Autistic people are humans, humans are diverse, therefore no two people with autism are the same'' is very true. Yes,  people with ASC can develop food intolerances, the runs, allergies etc on top of the autism, but so too do many people without autism. There are no fewer people with autism and aspergers who have no health problems or intolerances, myself included. Indeed, having an illness can make the autism more pronounced, but this does not mean the autism CAUSED the illness!. Correlation  does not mean causation. With regard to diets, these help if a medic has diagnosed an intolerance, but they don't cure the autism, although the autistic 'symptoms' may lessen in intensity once the diet is introduced simply because the autism was compounded by the stress of having an intolerance.

Your theory is anecdotal, far-fetched and irrational to say the least. You certainly jump to rash conclusions based on flimsy reasoning and faulty logic.

PREVENTIONISBETTERTHANCURE said:

PRE TD sensory - the infant tollerates noises e.g. washing machine, bouncy castle, hand drier, loud children or music, makes marks with fingers in paint, enjoys sand play, water play.

sensory: cries at the noise of an aerosol - spray foam - cannot bear to touch the foam and becomes upset cannot remain near it had to move away. upset by the bouncy castle air noises & refuses to go in the same room as it.

There are many causes of hyperacusis. Mine started off as blocked ears and the treatment used causes hyperacusis.

You have all helped enormously

i think prevention is better than a cure does not have any experience with the spectrum and therefore the advice and statements from him/her is not worth listening to.A childminder is not qualified to make such judgements about this subject they may or may not have had some experiences of.my  guess is this person is a wind up .

PREVENTIONISBETTERTHANCURE said:

It is extremely coincidental & significant, is it not? that these behaviours have manifested after TD

Coincidental? Yes.

Significant? No.

to have had these social, emotional, sensory & physical skills, for them to be replaced with a different skill set is remarkable, this is not a slide back in development due to illness, its a marked change, these are behaviours that the infant did not have before the TD

That does not mean that the infant did not have ASD before! All it means is that the infant did not show the symptoms of having an ASD before. Oh, except for one - the delayed speech - that's often one of the earliest signs.

And this is often how it happens - they seem fine, developing normally, and then... BAM! ASD kicks in.

That's how Developmental Disorders work. They're allways there, but until a certain development point is reached they don't fully manifest themselves.

so you are all certain that this infant,

although social from birth and developing well in all areas,

except for the speech delay, was born and not made ASD

the TD was a set back but ASD was always there?

In a word, Yes.

there are so many conflicting reports and mine was one of them.

This infant definately has ASD now and we are wanting to move forward quickly to help as much as we can.

It just occurs to me, that we're all assuming the child has ASD because you're saying it does. Has it been diagnosed by an expert? Or are you basing this on your clearly limited understand of Autism?

For a minute we thought we had a significant something that stood out. I am sorry for going about things the wrong way, I have ADD and my family is full of so called disorders, if there is some information that will help others its good to share it, we thought we had noted a significant observation.

It is natural to jump to conclusions like that - unfortunately it's something that's hardwired into our brains for very good evolutionary reasons, however, we as a species have moved beyond our evolutionary past and those survival mechanisms tend, these days, to misfire, and see 'significance' where there is none.

The thing to do when you have that "aha!" moment, is not to ask yourself "can I find evidence that suggests what I think is right" (because you will, whatever it is you think), but "can I find evidence that suggests what I think is wrong".

There are a lot of children with ASD in our locality, not just the ones I have mentioned. Either ASD families choose to live here or there is a cluster for some reason, be it coincidence or environmental.

Let me guess, are there also a lot of hi-tec businesses, or a center of academic excellence, or some other thing that tends to attract and concentrate a high proportion of 'brainy', 'geeky', 'nerdy' people in the locality?

It's no coincidence that the area with the highest incidence rate of ASDs in the UK is Cambridge, nor that the area with the highest incidence rate of ASDs in the US is Silicon Valley!

the schools dont have funding or rescources or enough staff to cope. the government has the policy EVERY CHILD MATTERS but depends what your postcode is and how hard you and your parents are willing to fight for what is a basic right. we have just identified a horse project for children  - 10 free sessions to any child living in the local area - I have been telling everyone about it.it is funded by children in need and its possible it is nationwide not just in this county and post code lottery, i know two families that have children that participated and said how wonderful it was for the children they gained so much from the experience

Believe me, we know all about the lack of funding, resources, and staff. And how such things are a postcode lottery or come down to how hard you fight or someone else fights on your behalf. And, if you think it's hard for children, and there parents, let me tell you, children, and the parents of children, with ASDs get an incredible amount of help compared to the help that adults with ASDs get!

autism is who and what you are . some medical issues can be present as well.Children do not just become Asd. Human beings are naturally different from each other,which is why each on the spectrum experience different things.As more is understood about human development more is learn't in early detection of autism in young children.There is often one step forward and 2 steps back in progress,as they grow up and mature.

so you are all certain that this infant,

although social from birth and developing well in all areas,

except for the speech delay, was born and not made ASD

the TD was a set back but ASD was always there?

there are so many conflicting reports and mine was one of them.

This infant definately has ASD now and we are wanting to move forward quickly to help as much as we can.

For a minute we thought we had a significant something that stood out. I am sorry for going about things the wrong way, I have ADD and my family is full of so called disorders, if there is some information that will help others its good to share it, we thought we had noted a significant observation.

There are a lot of children with ASD in our locality, not just the ones I have mentioned. Either ASD families choose to live here or there is a cluster for some reason, be it coincidence or environmental.the schools dont have funding or rescources or enough staff to cope. the government has the policy EVERY CHILD MATTERS but depends what your postcode is and how hard you and your parents are willing to fight for what is a basic right. we have just identified a horse project for children  - 10 free sessions to any child living in the local area - I have been telling everyone about it.it is funded by children in need and its possible it is nationwide not just in this county and post code lottery, i know two families that have children that participated and said how wonderful it was for the children they gained so much from the experience

PRE TD  -social skills; communicates with others, greeting them by waving and smiling, uses some sounds and several words & several signs. Enjoys song time within a familiar group.Participates and enjoys action songs such as incy wincy, wind the bobbin up, lying down with others in close contact for sleepy bunnies. Enjoys being social with other children & adults, points to body parts when asked e.g. where is your nose/ears/hair/knees? runs around the room following others and enjoys being amongst other children.

PRE TD -Routines are varied from week to week and the infant has embraced confidently any changes or transitions that have occured e.g. happy to visit a new toddler group, take a different route on a walk or a car journey, sitting in a different seat. 

PRE TD - emotional: separates from parent with ease, says bye, waves and blows kisses. the infant has an established sleep routine and is quick to settle at sleep time.

PRE TD sensory - the infant tollerates noises e.g. washing machine, bouncy castle, hand drier, loud children or music, makes marks with fingers in paint, enjoys sand play, water play.

PRE TD Repetitive behavour - the infant places objects into containers and has trajectory schema - draws straight lines downwards -enjoys swings, pushing chairs or swings.

PRE TD  physical - can climb safely onto chairs, slides,bouncy castle, soft play equipment, walks up stairs and does not require assistance to do so.Enjoys playing in the ball pool, confident with ride on toys.Enjoys playing with a wide range of toys and activities.

The only concern up to this point was speech development.The infant has an older sibling and is always around others that know & respond to what the infants needs so the delay was anticipitated and steps were being taken to address this.

TD appeared, then we obs the following once the TD ended:

social skills,communication: becomes unsettled/makes cry noises in a variety of situations: upset when a child or adult moves away or out of sight ( similar to attachment issues) unsettled at sleep time, cries out when walking or driving a different route. cries when another child sits in a specific chair. Does not like to be touched, responds by recoiling and crying. At song times, does not join in, instead sits out and observes the other children singing.

sensory: cries at the noise of an aerosol - spray foam - cannot bear to touch the foam and becomes upset cannot remain near it had to move away. upset by the bouncy castle air noises & refuses to go in the same room as it.

Does not seem to comprehend or respond when asked where is your nose? etc.

Hand flaps when excited - this infant never did this before TD

physical: loss of balance when climbing, needs to be supported even at low heights, tips the sit and ride cars over very easily, adult needs to be close by at all times

repetitive behaviours: posting balls, playing with the straps on pushcahirs/highchairs/car seats, at every opportunity  

It is extremely coincidental & significant, is it not? that these behaviours have manifested after TD

Yes, we understand that everyone on the planet is different as is anyone with ASD

but to have had these social, emotional, sensory & physical skills, for them to be replaced with a different skill set is remarkable, this is not a slide back in development due to illness, its a marked change, these are behaviours that the infant did not have before the TD

OK, there are two factors that are most likely involved in what you have observed with the infant, PREVENTION:

Firstly, as has already been stated several times, the 'symptoms' of ASD tend to appear at different stages in different infant's development. Some, like myself, even show very little sign of having an ASD when young, and are only diagnosed in adulthood.

Secondly, as has also already been stated, stressors, such as being ill, tend to have the effect of making our ASD symptoms worse. This is because, at it's core, one the main difficulties we have is with the processing of sensory inputs - it's like we have very narrow-band, but very high-fidelity, sensory input channels and it is often when these input channels become overwhelmed and overloaded that our ASD symptoms are at their worst. We also often suffer quite a long 'come down' period after the stressors (though equally, we also often recover extremely quickly (this is one of the many paradoxes of having an ASD)) - so we 'manifest' the symptoms caused by a stress factor for quite some time after that stress factor has gone away.

The second factor described is most likely also the cause for the teenager miraculous imrovement in speech - take away the stress and our ASD symptoms will disappear. In fact, it is said by one expert in Asperger's that the only known 'cure' for Asperger's is to take the person with Asperger's to their bedroom, walk out, and close the door - because when we're in a comfortable, safe, environment, with no stressors, and no need for social communication, all our symptoms evaporate.

If you want to help those in your care who have an ASD, then I ask that you, please, don't jump to conclusions about what you think may or may not be causing the symptoms you see, but rather, do some research, ask questions here, and above all else ignore everything that you read that doesn't come from good, solid, reliable, scientific sources.

There are lots of people out there making money out of peddling nonesense about the supposed causes of ASDs, even though the scientific community continues to prove them wrong, time, after time, after time.

Such people are no better snake-oil salesmen.

If you need help to find good, solid, reliable, scientific sources of information, please ask, I'm sure we can point you in the right direction.

Yes, there may be a connection. Child gets the runs, child experiences pain/illness more or in a different way to other children and reacts accordingly i.e. freaks out at change. As a result, ASD tendancies start showing themselves in more obvious manners. It 's probably as simple as that because I'm telling you ASD IS GENETIC.

Been on cows milk pretty much my entire life and find it a wonderful comfort drink, my siblings and all my cousins (11 total) have had milk all their life. Only myself and one other have been diagnosed with a form of ASD. So, 2 out of 12 have ASD, however, we're related, and our grandparents display some autistic tendancies. Arguement for it being genetic, enforced, arguement for milk 'giving' us ASD. NULL AND VOID.

The children will of course react differently after being unwell because this may be the first time they conciously register the sensation of being ill, and react in what they feel is a perfectly NATURAL manner. Sorry if it doesn't match up to your standards.

Please don't come on a forum that supports relatives and those with ASD and preach that you know what's 'causing' it. Don't you think hundreds, millions have been searching for answers their whole lives? While I'm proud of who I am and what I've achieved, I know a hell of a lot of people who'd be 'normal' or 'cured' in a heartbeat, so please don't come on here and INSULT the rest of us.

If you had posted 'I've noticed a child I watch develop asd tendacies after having milk (which is somehow related to the runs), any idea if this is true?', then people might have reacted more kindly, your attitude so far is that you seem to have decided you're right, and therefore, we're wrong.

Also, because ASD is a GENETIC (yes, I will keep stressing this), it means we're more susceptable to other genetic disorders, which may include intolerance to gluten products. Its not uncommon. Its been PROVEN to not be uncommon. So please drop this 'diet must have something to do with causing it' theory. Everything has certain nutrients within it and everyone has different levels of nutrient intake in order to be healthy.

And for heavens sake THE INCIDENT PROBABLY JUST PROMOTED A RESPONSE THAT WAS PERFECTLY LOGICAL TO THE CHILD, you lot just never realised that the 'independant streak' was in fact an aversion to communicating to others. You've probably passed off a ton of the childs 'normal' behaviour pre-'TB' because you didn't reckon they had ASD. Now that they're suddenly 'ASD' you're blaming what you deem the obvious thing. Go over the childs history and look at their behaviour, and for the love of all that is sanity DO YOUR BLOODY RESEARCH! ITS AN AUTISTIC SPECTRUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just in case you haven't gathered and need it spelled out I can safely say you've insulted and pissed off at least several relatives of those with ASD and a whole bunch of autistic individuals with your constant denial. This particular Aspie is considering asking you politely to leave and never come back. You do have the freedom to say what you want, but as a 'professional', you should at least have the DECENCY to respect others with this condition and ACKNOWLEDGE we have more knowledge about this than you do.

Oh, and by the way, I'm sure this whole 'thing' where you're watching kids 'get' ASD is 'disturbing' and 'worrying'....how do you think the poor kids parents are feeling? Or better yet, the kid? Do you think they don't want this whole thing to 'disappear'?That kids life is never going to be the same as anyone else, they're going to have to grow up more different than all the others, they're the ones who have a right to be worried. Kindly start thinking about them and their family before thinking about yourself in that respect and stop spreading scaremongering rumours. They're gonna have enough to deal with without you adding to it needlessly.

Educate me then please, I am begging for advice

I have seen an infant change their behaviours markedly and without any doubt.

I work with three other educated adults, one has SEN & ASD experience as do I. We are not experts and do not claim to be. We have all confirmed our observations and agree the infant was definately not showing signs of ASD prior to the incidence of TD

These behaviour changes occured after the TD finished

The infant is now presenting with ASD classic behaviours that were not present before the TD

I will happily go into detail should you require more info

I want this to disappear like it never happened like a bad dream or something, but here we are, I want answers and I know this will rock the boat and I dont know where to turn for the solution.

 If the TD episode is a significant factor I want it to be known as such and I am aware that there is plenty more research to be conducted.

I have observed and care for a child that is currently on the Casein and Gluten free diet and aviods food addatives, takes calcium supplements amongst other suppliments. I asked the childs parent - what happened when the diet changed over? "The improvement in speech was the most amazing thing of all and occured overnight"

The child currently presents as a bit shy - I dont think the child would be recognised as ASD currently - no the child has definately not been cured - the child is a teenager and has always been on this diet.

We just want to help others and find answers to this TD connection - It seems a very significant event to the four of us - all four of us have witnessed this incident.

This is where I started to find out about what I know to be true - the man is called Konstantin Monastyrsky - he is the professional not me.

This report states that Infant Constipation is  treated incorrectly causing persistent diarrheoa which causes gastroenteropathy and therefore inflammatory bowel disease which causes severe malnutrition. He then states that the report stops there and does not offer it as a proof of the link between infant constipation (and therefore diarrhoea) and autism. Then quite clearly states the following:

'Anyone interpreting my report otherwise — as something having to do with autism therapy, or autism treatment, or autism genetics, or autism awareness, or what-have-you, is, apparently, in denial, or has an agenda other than the safety and welfare of your child.'

Unfortunately having gone through the pages that you referenced (Konstantin Monastyrsky)it seemed to be severely lacking in any clinical evidence. No population studies, not even a single case study. Doesn't seem to be anything scientific about that. This approach seems to be 'I know it to be true, so it is', thats the same approach as 'the world is flat because I know it to be'- that worked out well didn't it? (Just to be sure, that is sarcasm)

Although from the looks of it he has a very lucrative page for donations to continue his research, of which none has been published in a peer-reviewed medical journal. I have checked the US National library of Medicine, the national institute of health and the british medical journal with out a single paper. In fact if you google him, hes a pharmacist, one with a very astute knowledge of economics having worked on wall street.

I do not wish to cast dispersions on Konstantin Monastyrsky- he does stop short in all his papers of saying he knows autism is related to constipation (still not about diarrhoea). But leaves gaps for people to fill in there own opinions. If you wish to present your views as scientific I would at least make sure there is some evidence/research/proof.

You are deluded! and in denial! Get a Grip!

autism is a human difference that you are born with.you cannot catch it like you do a cold or from allergys.

PREVENTIONISBETTERTHANCURE said:

Three of them are now on the ASD spectrum

the fourth one is not

the fourth one didnt have cows milk!!!!

Explain this then:

I hasve one brother and one sister. brother & I both have ASD. I was the only one (out of us 3) to not have cows milk due to lactose intolerance.

One case proves nothing. If it does, then have I just disporved your case?

The advice you're giving is dangerous.

There is no such thing as the ASD diet.

OFF WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU ARE EXTREMLEY INSULTING!!!!! based on your argument..3 out of MANY children are AUTISTIC because of your ridiculous theory,  THIS MAKES YOU RIGHT??? I THINK NOT!... Give it up... Anyone who knows anything AT ALL knows this is absolute crap!!.. Do yourself a favour and dont post any more crap!!!!.... i for one am getting particularly P***** off with this.