Published on 12, July, 2020
I kind of what some answers to this once and for all. I was diagnosed with Asperger's at very nearly 16 (I'm now 21) having struggled all my life with anxiety and depression, had an eating disorder etc (all the classic Aspie girl stuff). About two years later, I had a mental health crisis. With hindsight, it was a result of issues I'd always had, but my moods and behaviour became more and more erratic over several months - I felt like death; I remember lying in dark rooms in excruciating mental pain, carefully planning how I would kill myself, sitting awake all night staring at walls with glazed eyes, hiding in cupboards at school unable to lift my head but then running around a few hours later, buying £100 worth of cakes and giggling and hallucinating diamonds on the pavement. Long story short, I ended up collapsed on the floor in the middle of town having run away from school, bleeding, screaming, I'd written the word 'liar' all over myself in marker pen, I was hearing voices, believing people were out to kill me, and I ended up having to be restrained and put in a police car; I was then taken home, and for some reason neither I or my family understand I was not offered any more intensive treatment (despite the police arranging a mental health act assessment: it either never happened or I don't remember it! I do remember a really horrible man coming round from the primary care mental health service the following day and utterly victim-blaming me, saying it was 'about choices' and all I needed to do was 'make an effort', and telling me I was having delusional thoughts in a very accusing tone which is not what you're meant to do when someone is having a psychotic episode). My GP just gave my parents a packet of Valium and told them to give it to me every four hours, including throughout the night, with the anti-psychotics I had already been prescribed by a private psychiatrist I was seeing, and told them to 'keep me safe and let nature take its course', so essentially my parents, who had jobs and my two younger sisters to look after, had to become psychiatric nurses in their own home. The worst thing for me was the effect this had on my family, and that the social services called a couple of days later to see if my sisters were safe from their out-of-control sister, when I would never lay a finger on my little sisters whether I was in crisis or not; I was the one in danger and I didn't see an NHS mental health professional for a month after seeing the vile primary care guy. But that's life I suppose.
About four years on, I've had other problems, including an overnight admission to A&E due to self-harm and suicidal behaviour (worst night of my life and I've had quite a few bad nights; I can't even think of it without getting upset) while they called the psychiatric hospital to discuss admission (the hospital said no as they didn't think being on a ward would help me long-term; they told the general hospital where I was to keep me in so I was safe overnight and that they'd reassess in a few days; luckily my situation calmed down and I was just referred back to the CMHT). I've had many other so-called paranoid and delusional thoughts, and I've had crises that only people close to me know about, like when I went through a phase of trying to scar my face (even professionals didn't know about that until afterwards. I did actually end up scarring my face: I've got a little scar on my cheek you can see when I haven't got make-up on, but luckily most of the facial cuts healed without leaving any marks). However, I'm doing pretty well right now: I'm a published poet and short fiction writer - I'm passionate about my writing and I'm told I'm good at it; I'm getting a poetry pamphlet (which is like a small collection of poems) published by a small poetry press soon - I'm managing to lose weight healthily (I've been quite significantly overweight due to binge-eating which the meds haven't helped with) and I'm keeping fit, exercising every day, I'm reading lots and I'm starting at uni next month having been desperate to go for a long time. Most importantly, I have some amazing friends (I've had some cr*ppy ones too, but I'm OK with that as they've taught me some good lessons). I'm now on 550mg of quetiapine (which is a moderate-to-high dose) and I hate how groggy and yucky it makes me feel - it's like waking up every day with a hangover! - but it does help; I don't know where I'd be without it. As well as the Asperger's, I am diagnosed with borderline personality disorder and I identify very strongly with this diagnosis - I have no issue with it, and it has got me support from secondary mental health services including DBT (Dialectical Behaviour Therapy) which I've found extremely helpful without them needing to adapt it for autism or anything - but I get a lot of people from the autism community saying, 'That's often a misdiagnosis, particularly with girls and women on the spectrum, they'll have got it wrong, you don't have BPD, you have autism and that's that.' However, my parents and mental health professionals I've worked with think I definitely have additional mental difficulties, and that psychosis is never a part of autism; if an autistic person becomes psychotic it means they've got comorbid mental health problems. I guess I was wondering if you guys knew anything about this? I've been so confused for so long and I know I shouldn't base too much importance on 'labels' as it were, but it gets to me - I can't help it. I just want to be able to understand my mind!
Thanks for reading.
I thought it was Psychopaths who did the manipulating and that Psychosis was more applicable to gross psychological malfunctioning like hearing voices, confused/delusional thinking etc..
I Sperg I'm sorry to hear this. Felix Guattari was one of the psychoanalysts against this kind of abuse. Both he and R.D. Laing believed a sanatorium was supposed to be a sanctuary - an escape from the cruelty of society not a place for the medical profession to practice abuse. Now, there has also been amazing things we now have because of science but abuse of individuals who are different than society seems like it has been a thing since the dawn of time.
I believe we're still on the brink of understanding how impossible the psychotic and ASD are - not really polar either, as the research I've found points to two different brains, like two different dimensions of experience reality. The psychotic is a master manipulator and CAN relate to NTs which is exactly what makes them dangerous. Schizophrenics cannot. And while I'm sure there are so many diversions, we're simply here in history and medicine. But I think Deleuze and Guattari began to make this connexion from ASD to schizophrenia as a warped experience, just as - in another 'dimension of experiencing reality' - the Neurotic (neuro-typical) can be warped into the Perverse and or Psychotic.
My dad experienced the full gamut of 1950's psychiatry including ECT and Insulin shock therapy to cure his "schizophrenia" which I now know beyond any doubt was indeed Autism. I thought for many decades (and was told by my drug addled peer group "you're paranoid maaan") but of course, my uncertainty and fear of other people (particularly in large groups) makes perfect sense now, particularly in the light of the abuse I suffered until I developed ways of dissuading that. I masked in my teens and very early twenties as a dangerous and unpredictable (and mildly abusive) character, deliberately in an effort to dissuade other people from getting up in my business, and it worked wonderfully for the other people.
The truly weird and unpleasant aspect of this was I was very "popular" until I could not live that way any longer. The problem for me was that "everyone likes a nutter but they don't want to take him home", as my last partner so aptly put it.
i just read a few google searchs is all loli saw the symptoms were pretty much the same near enough and that at one point autism was considered to be a early sign of schizophrenia or something..... or more like... part of a schizophrenic spectrum instead.
THIS- Is an interesting topic even tho it was started 4 years ago. Caelus have you read Capitalism and Schizophrenia? Deleuze & Guattari's work on Anti-Oedipus. They were on the brink of understanding Autism and I think if they had, I have a feeling the ND / Autist becoming Schizophrenic would be the parallel to how the Neurotic (reclassified as NT) can become Perverse then Psychotic.
It's a massive study but a good explanation of how the Autist differs from the Psychotic in a clinical manner. Dr. Francesca Happe has also expanded on this a good deal in her research. I find this research particularly fascinating.
its probably actually closer to schizophrenia, which is very close to autism but with added halucinations hearing voices and phsycosis and so on lol so autism was a close diagnosis as schizophrenia is very similar
I have had dxes that have mostly fitted within a 'psychosis spectrum since 1975.
Or if you take certain recreational drugs, of course, you can "enjoy" a short period of full blown psychosis.
It's very educational if nothing else, and perhaps ought to form part of the mandatory training for those who have to deal with psychotic people. ;c)
Psychosis is not a part of autism, but it's possible to have psychosis and autism at the same time, for example if you have a mood disorder like bipolar.
I'm sure we ALL have wanted to become Dr Evil at some point!
MY dad, who I know know with the benefit of hindsight was Autistic as f*** did manage to get himself a Schizophrenia diagnosis when he was young, but except when experimenting with drugs, I've not really experienced much in the way of psychosis myself.
I suspect that high functioning Autists can get themselves misdiagnosed very easily, and end up owning a condition that they do not actually have, but some professional expert after a five minute consultation decides you do have.
I'm lucky enough to have a small part of me that monitors my well being and stays "together" even when I am extremely distraught, or for that matter (when I was young) "tripping balls", and except on the rarest occasions, (like when I woke up this morning at 06:00 hours full of beans and had to go and watch some T.V. before I could resume my beauty sleep) I can always steer myself into a quiet place and fall asleep. It's been literally a life saver.
The way to stick it to the people who like stick it to the likes of us, is to either:
1. Get away from such people as soon as possible, and if you REALLY cannot, then use your resourcefulness and ability to "think outside of the box" to destroy them, without any mercy or delay.
2. Be better than they are in every single way possible. It riles them and makes them want to stick it to you more, of course, but then after a while you usually come out on top, has been my experience.
I choose number 2 as often as possible, but sometimes you just have to do what needs to be done. And my word, people do beg for a bit of trauma sometimes..
I'm not sure about me having Borderline Personality Disorder, but - at times - I wish I could do what the Joker did in the 2019 film and go on a rampage against society.
I'm Bipolar/Schizoaffective - officially diagnosed with Schizophrenia. I never lost the plot in ways listed above - but I did have meltdowns whenever I was failing in Video Games against my mates at Uni. They thought that I was going to jump into the River Bann at one stage. I have NEVER told this to anyone before- though I will raise this with my Key Worker tomorrow morning.
I have both psychosis and autism as well. And they think I have BPD along side that. I’ve had a few meltdowns where I hilusinated and just horrified to sleep. Go in bathrooms without thinking the government is watching me and also have realy bad anger outburst. They do say that psychosis is more common in autistic people.
Firstly, I'm sorry to hear about what you've been through. You and your family have been very badly let down by the people who were supposed to be helping you.
As far as I know from several years on forums like this one, you're right, psychosis is not inherent to autism. I don't know BPD well enough to comment on your presentation, but I've seen enough to know that it unfortunately does seem to have a particular stigma attached to it, though I don't know of any clear evidence that autism is misdiagnosed as BPD any more than any other condition which sometimes has similar traits. The "sometimes" is important; you've been receiving care for some time from multiple professionals, and even more importantly, the support for BPD is helping you; so I see no reason to doubt that a dual diagnosis would be appropriate from what you've told us.
If you've not tried it already, Wrong Planet is an autism forum with a dedicated section for people with other conditions, whether also autistic or not. That one might not suit you, but I think it may be worth a bit of searching and lurking to see if there is forum or support group where you can find people with real experience of living with a dual diagnosis.