Wes Streeting's move against autism - NAS - time to step up

‘The assertion that ASD and ADHD are the commonest reason for a sickness claim is simply wrong. I’ve just drilled down into the figures for PIP and it would appear that:

• The commonest main reason given for a PIP claim is 'psychiatric disorders' (around 40%)
• Autism and ADHD combined account for about 10% of the total
• Anxiety and depression account for 15–20%
• Other mental conditions: 10–15%

Kate Kestrel said:

Why isn’t Labour taxing the rich, and the big corporations, and at least marginally tackling wealth inequality?

In essence because they are not the Labour party of times past. 

Tony Blair realised that model was no longer electable back in the 90s and worked on making that party into a Conservative Lite party, just left enough of the Conservative party to be different and right enough to steal their voters. And it worked.

The same worked for Starmer in the last election and the party is still very much Conservative Lite.

They are run by their donors, much like all big poltical party.

They reward themselves with seats on the boards of companies that they enable through the laws they pass.

Not that any of the competition is any better.

The solution would be to make the politicians personally liable for their activity in power and restrict them from leaving the counry while any investigations are ongoing.

Where are all these people claiming pip.  I've applied twice. 2019 and this year and got zero points both times.  Yet I have severe mental problems.

And the number of homeless people begging on my city streets is shocking.  If they were getting full benefits they would be housed.  Instead I see people with missing limbs and wheelchairs sleeping rough in shop doorways.

I agree on the allocation of resources, but not necessarily new money. 

NHS budget has trebled since 2000 in real terms (after inflation) from £34bn to a little over £200bn.

Staffing has increased by 50%.

In that time the number of beds has been cut from 186,000 to 145,000.

Even the Guardian is now negative,  reporting today on systemic bullying at one place which has seen a number of staff jailed.

I believe they mentioned money is not it's main problem.

And incidentally I have two adult autistic children - one works very hard (on a PHD for not much money) and other simply cannot currently work because his struggles are profound (for example he has selective mutism and cannot talk to people). My eldest’s girlfriend worked very hard at Uni and got an MA - and she’s been trying to find a job for months. So where are all these employers that are going to employ people with significant disabilities and mental health problems? So your answer is what: condemn mentally ill people to live in abject poverty and probably end up on the streets because no landlord will touch them? My son needed £2400 deposit just to get a very small attic flat for him and his girlfriend. We have to ask ourselves what kind of society we want to be. When I’m in the Cotswolds occasionally the car parks are full of Range Rovers, Jaguars, BMWs, and the countryside round there is littered with exclusive member only luxury hotels. Don’t tell me this country is on its knees and we can’t afford to support the most vulnerable - because it’s just not true. 

You can't state as a fact there is no over diagnosis. You don't know, neither do I. A report into the facts will show this. How is it bad if this is formally laid to rest?

The suspicion is there and is only going to get worse till it is proven wrong.

And if proven wrong, then more support has to provided to help people work, as I mentioned.

The IMF has questioned the benefits bill. It is not sustainable. If I remember correctly even the guardian has pointed this out. 

The £71k figure is true and has not been disputed. It may have been mentioned in the House, but not sure about that. It is of course cherry picked but serves to illustrate a point that we have a problem.

It comes from the Centre for Social Justice.

The figure of £71,000 is the pre-tax income a working family would need to achieve the same after-tax income as a non-working household receiving a comprehensive package of benefits. The CSJ analysis specifies the jobless household is receiving: 

• -Average rates of Universal Credit (UC)
• The housing element of UC
• Health benefits, specifically the Personal Independence Payment (PIP) 

The inclusion of the non-means-tested PIP, which is a disability benefit, significantly increases the total amount and often makes the household exempt from the overall benefit cap. 

The benefits bill is not helped by the fact that the rental housing market is bleeding renters dry. And why are so many more people getting mentally unwell? Our society is such that it’s putting people under ever increasing strain and pressure on multiple levels. We had a pandemic whose long term impact on people has not been recognised. Why isn’t Labour taxing the rich, and the big corporations, and at least marginally tackling wealth inequality? This whole thing is very complex - and what I do know is that people don’t CHOOSE to be disabled and mentally ill, or neurodivergent. So we must not create a blame culture where they are held responsible for a failing capitalist economy that they had no role in creating. 

I totally agree with everything you’ve written here and want to express solidarity. Wes Streeting is not a good man - he’s demonstrated this time and time again. Why don’t the spend the money they’ll spend on this enquiry on actually helping people who need help? Instead Streeting is going to waste all this time and money on an enquiry to find excuses to NOT help vulnerable people. It’s despicable and I’ll never vote Labour ever again - this Govt has completely betrayed people with genuine Labour values who voted for them in good faith that they would protect the vulnerable. 
I also agree with you that the NAS need to be standing up for the Neurodivergent community and challenging Streeting’s discriminatory agenda.

If the government put more money into diagnostic services within the NHS and invested in fit for purpose and professionally qualified oversight of people on incapacity benefits there would be a net financial benefit to the state. Having half-arsed witch-hunts conducted by people not sufficiently qualified to assess neurodevelopmental and mental health problems is just asking for increased misery and higher rates of suicide. I'm speaking as an autistic person who is highly qualified and who worked full-time in a demanding job until retirement and who never has had any state benefits, except when unemployed after graduating during the Thatcherite cut-backs of the early 1980s.

Stuart333 said:

One of the papers the other day pointed out that for a couple with 3 children living on benefits, they would have to earn £71,000 between the to be worth working. This is unreasonable.

Firstly to quote the Daily Mail or other right wing tabloids is really poor. Has it been independently verified? If that paper and others said the sky was orange would you believe it?

Secondly I think this is more of Labour's appeal to reform voters. This country is becoming a right leaning populist country controlled by the media. Look at the attacks on the budget over what nothing of real substance. The media controls the agenda and pushes what it wants. I have been watching sky news recently and have been really disappointed in its direction of travel. It is now pushing a right leaning agenda at every opportunity.

Now lets get to the crux of the debate: There is no overdiagnosis of autism. When in my fifties I was diagnosed when I had never considered the possibility before but after doing some reading I was astounded that it described me. I could have continued masking in ignorance but going through burnout after burnout is not good for this older gents health. I wish I had never considered this as I have now lost my lifelong career down to discrimination. So tell me who is at fault here. The over diagnosis of autism?

This claptrap of the over diagnosis mantra is going to feed more bias and discrimination and the ND community is the only real sufferers in the long term.

Lets have some numbers.

The benefits bill is not sustainable, so either it has to be cut for everyone or it has to get more selective.

1 in 10 working age people get disability or incapacity benefits, having risen by around a third in 6 years, and over 60% in the last 22 years.

44% are for mental health or behavioural issues.

75.1% of the working age population work (people aged 16-64), which is 34.22 million, or 49%.

So each working person is feeding, housing, 2 people.

Also 53.3% of the population costs more than they put in. 

60% of all personal tax comes from 10% of the population, some of whom are leaving.

One of the papers the other day pointed out that for a couple with 3 children living on benefits, they would have to earn £71,000 between the to be worth working. This is unreasonable.

Motability is the biggest provider of cars now I believe, including providing luxury cars with tax payer subsidies, although this is now being stopped.

I would stake all my savings on there being corruption too.

This does not not mean I am against help for those that need it.

For those on work, if you are out for more than 3 months I think for a mental health issues, the chances of working again drop. I sone European countries intervention is much quicker and people stay in work.

Children are not served by waiting years for a diagnosis.

An investigation, based on data, is a good thing to find out what is going on. If more resources are needed to enable more people to be productive, that is a good thing and is brings the cost down and allows those who need help to be supported without cuts.

The most common reason for a sickness claim has become ASD and ADHD apparently.

I do not believe, neither did my consultant, that some of the online diagnosis places that charge little and do it in one phone call can be doing a thorough or reliable job. You would have to be naive to think no-one is gaming the system. This helps nobody. I have sone other suspicions, but I can't substantiate them so will not say anything.

So in summary, to block any investigation is to block improvement in access and will result in a reduction in money per person.

If everything is above board, then it will have to lead to more accommodation and help to get people into work. Which many would consider a good thing too.