Autistic stereotypes - movement and balance - "ministry of funny walks"!

 Cinnabar_wing 

I think that you clearly make a point that we are all individuals!

hyper-mobility is a tricky one...  hyper mobility combined with excellent strength, control and endurance can confer extraordinary ability - gymnasts, climbers, dancers et al...  

I suspect that the issue may be one of balance and control myself although it is said that as we grow stronger through childhood such issues can correct themselves. 

I am glad that your son gets to excel through his swimming.  :-)

I am of the opinion that physical movement capability is worth working on at any age and might go "under the radar" as other things take higher priority.

Hehe the older I get tho' the more I value being able to walk up and down hills and do things like gardening or DIY.  But also simply being able to move and turn and look and reach about.  To simply be able to sit comfortably is really important :-)

Movement is also about self expression.  Sometimes being autistic can come with a bit of a sense of oppression in neuro-typical society.  Moving freely and expressively( including expressing emotion in movement) is one of the ways to perhaps over-come that sense?.

As you highlight the social aspect is key i suspect - especially in team sports - maybe your daughter could try more solo or "parallel" pursuits.  An autistic chum of mine has found huge satisfaction and capability improvements from "bouldering" - a type of climbing which is both a physical and a mental challenge.  There is also a good camaraderie in it I understand, as the climbers are keen to help one another work out how to achieve the climb.

All the best :-)

Oh so I'm more middling, not awful but not amazing -I have a longer stride perhaps. 

But my son who we think is ND has amazing coordination, but has a terrible run. It's been a bit of a mismatch, amazing at returning a tennis ball but can't run for it. Poor child was last in sports day measurably, even then the L3 autistic child with other physically disabilities.  But we have just discovered he has hyper mobility -he was doing archery and his elbows bend way past the average. 

This got me thinking that maybe his awkward run is linked to this -as his knees seem to a little bent inwards when he jogs, and this condition is very common for autistics. Might be worth looking into too! He is super fast at swimming, which makes sense as it's less about pushing on your joints.

I should add there dad (NT) is very good at sports, my daughter seems to be very good but it's more the social aspect that stops her doing sport.

I am really pleased for you that you found yoga to be helpful TheCatWoman 

I was not particularly good at sports either.  

I spent a long time training in martial arts and found when I returned to other sports I had significantly improved as I had "transferable skills" to apply to them.

I wonder if you found yoga also helpful for emotional insight and regulation too?  It is part of that tradition of exercise as I understand it.

I did try and do all the things my friends did, but I was so bad even my friends didn't want me in thier team for school sports or playground games.

Thanks Hawthorn 

Yes, you make a good point about dyspraxia as a separate diagnosis.

hehe yes practice helps develop skill!

If autistic children don't engage as much with games with others that involve movement maybe that might have something to do with reduced skills too?

It could possibly also be dyspraxia that might coexist with autism. Myself and my eldest son (especially when he was young) had terrible coordination issues and I can’t catch a ball to this day, but my husband (who has more autistic characteristics than I) and ASD middle child have great coordination. My husband puts this down to his Mum constantly throwing balls at him when he was young

Thanks for sharing your insight Stuart333 I think that the importance of strategies that help calm the nervous system as part of the process of helping with movement are critical and your description of that I think helps confirm that .

The body moves using the nervous system. Dysregulation or overloading of this could affect movement.

I am not sure if you are interested in movement when regulated and calm, or when stressed.

When close to not being able to cope, through stress or pressure, a spike in adrenaline seems to make me a bit jerky. I couldn't walk normally a couple of months ago for a few minutes. But the issue quite temporary and I am not sure that is what you are after.

Thanks Iain  :-)

I am, as it were, "trying the waters" on this topic.

To quote the article you kindly shared: "little is known about the long-term impact of decreased physical activity frequency and intensity across the lifespan of autistic individuals, or the specific physical, environmental, and social barriers they may encounter."

I believe that a poll of the type would indeed be a particularly informative thing to be done.

Much emphasis is made on cognitive, social and sensory differences for autistic people and little note is made for how movement difficulties might be correlated and indeed causative with what might be described as "disability".

There has long been a temptation in Western science to separate mind, body and (dare one say?) spirit.  Perhaps there is now a developing a capacity to see how these factors are inter-connected.  hehe albeit at a time when function of mind and body is increasing farmed out to machines!

I am of a mind that from a movement sense the human body is somewhat a vehicle that the potential for use of might be somewhat lost on many users...  Including, perhaps, in the same sense that other aspects of autism have long been unacknowledged (not least by such as myself who are late diagnosed and/or those with  "lower level" ASD - I use that term reservedly for a host of reasons...).

The potential for autistic people to "inhabit" themselves more satisfyingly through movement with all the potential benefits it carries is something I would like to encourage.  

All the best :-)

Phased said:

Either those who don't have problems in this area aren't interested in responding or the limited sample size doesn't give enough evidence.

It may be more accurate to create a poll and ask everyone to participate - if one option is "I have no mobility issue" then you should capture these and get an idea of numbers.

There is an interesting research article on the subject that may be of interest:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10725993/

There is strong empirical evidence that autistic individuals have differences in motor behavior compared to neurotypical individuals.

These can be separated into two categories: motor stereotypies (e.g. hand flapping) and differences in motor control and motor coordination (e.g. postural instability, hand–eye coordination

Thank you for the responses everyone :-)

There seems to be a predominant response of movement, co-ordination and balance issues reported.

There is also some indication that there is a desire for improving capability in the areas with a further subset of those having mastery by training.

Either those who don't have problems in this area aren't interested in responding or the limited sample size doesn't give enough evidence.

Anyway, I'm taking this as some evidence to support movement, balance and co-ordination work being potentially useful for adult autistic people.

I'll carry on with that thought.

All the best :-)

Walking to the Canteen Carriage, and back to my seat, on the Belfast to Dublin train was always a forced exercise; for me. It felt like I was drunk; usually losing balance.

My balance has improved, since then. But there are still moments.

I don't understand how to dance either. I avoid it at all costs. I've tried watching others to see how they do it but I can't make my body move like that. I just end up like an awkward swaying wooden board.

I forgot about dancing, I meant to mention that. Despite my other skills I haven't got any idea what to do for dancing. 

I could probably do something that has clear rules. But general nightclub type thing, or even at weddings or events, I hide out of sight, or in one extreme case made an excuse and literally ran away when asked to dance.

I have become increasingly aware of the “Astrid” stereotype this last year, but that is not how I walk and move about.

I was slightly clumsy as a child, but it might have been because I was engrossed in something or distracted. I was, and still am accident prone. I was always breaking bones as a child, or breaking things. My fine motor skills were slightly delayed as a child. These days, I have improved somewhat yet it is something I am always aware of.

I would love to glide along effortlessly when I go for a walk. I wish I had learned the “Alexander Technique” when young. Some people at school had weekly sessions but I disliked school so much that it wasn’t an option for me. 

I think I walked at the usual age and wasn't particularly clumsy although I do frequently walk into things now, I guess I did then too, but nobody noticed. I used to hate stairs and found them difficult but I thought that was because I was brought up in a bungalow and wasn't used to them?

I don't think it was really apparent how bad my balance and ablity to do physical stuff was until I was at secondary school, I can't throw and was considered to dangerous to throw a javelin after nearly hitting someone with my first attempt. Shot put wasn't any better either I dropped it in front of my toes after putting a lot of effort into throwing it. I couldn't do gym, I was always hurting myself and couldn't do rope climbing or any other sort of climbing for that matter, I'd get vertigo after about three or four rungs. I was terrible at running and jumping I couldn't catch or hit a ball properly either, I still can't, I try throwing sticks for Fearn and sometimes that goes so wrong she just stands there and looks at me with a 'how can you be so crap' look.

I still can't ride a bycycle, I have tried, but I just can't get the balance and movement right. I can't dance either, I'm really really bad at it, partly because I don't understand times and counts and stuff and partly because I usually try and start on the wrong foot. I've even taken a couple of dance classes and they didn't go well, I remember the teacher looking at me with a really confused look on her face. She asked me how I could be apparently doing all the right things but was unable to put them together, like being able to shimmy really well, get my boobs going in opposite directions and my bum going too, just none of it was in time to the music.

I have an astigmatism I didn't find out about until I was in my forties and I wonder if tht could be why I have so many problems catching things, but it dosen't account for throwing or falling over.

I was diagnosed with dyspraxia which often goes with ND. I got better when I took up yoga, I learned to have much more control of my body and muscle isolations seem quite natural to me.

This was my problem since early childhood,  even when I finally started walking, I dudnt walk independently for long time, but held the furniture instead and walked in circles in the room. If I had nothing to hold, I would crawl on my knees even at age 3-4 and I myself have some memory of this. Later in kindergarten and school it was always the problem with balance, coordination,  inability to copy movements of a group (for example dancing) I was always the slowest, the worst balanced and the clumsy, I was also bullied and shout out by peers for this reason. And I always thought of myself to be inferior and the loser, fir various reasons, also because of my clumsiness. Even as an adult I still have these problems and I still hear that my walk is funny (like a terminator) or a soldier, I still hurt myself accidentally and notice it only when I see blood or bruises. 

As far as I know, not all autistic people have problems with motor skills, but its very common. I have no problems with fine motor skills, my handwriting is considered ti be beautiful,  I do artworks with Details etc. But gross motor skills are a disaster. I remember having issues with tying my shoes, learning to drive a bicycle,  I finally managed it at the age of 10, I also had difficulty distinguishing left and right (I red that its common in synaesthesia, which I strongly suspect that I have - lexical gustatory).

I have, or had, good balance, I taught myself to walk on stilts. I walk on my toes when  barefoot.

I have good coordination. I taught myself to juggle and am quite precise in my movements.

So clumsiness is not mandatory. But I may not be typical.

I was never very good at balancing and struggled to learn to balance on a bike. My hand/co-ordination is not good. When they taught us to serve in tennis at school I tended to miss the ball. My spatial awareness is not good and I think I have a tendency to not walk straight as I sometimes walk into things or trip. 

I would not have been described as a typical ballet dancer as a child, no hint of dantiness. I was however not slender and had big feet.

I didn't think I have problems but some times I do. Before my diagnosis one of the things I was asked to do was to walk in a straight line one foot in front of another. Which I could not do. I'm not sure if it was being told to do it in the spur of the moment. I definately thought this was to do with my vision which is a bit bleery. Self improvement through health otimisation is definately a special interest, although some people might call it self care and see this as something they just do anyway.