It's been noticed for a while now that men in general and young men in particular are more right wing and likely to vote Reform, what's been missed is that the total opposite has been going on with women. Women seem to be voting Green in quite high numbers, and seem to be more aware of the climate crisis and more socially aware.
Another interesting polarity in an already polarised world.
I find it interesting that this shift is being under reported
Some scientist argued that Lockdown was the best way to minimise deaths from Covid 19, but others argued for a different approach.
We were told consistently by government, medical advisers and media to "trust the science" every time lockdown was questioned. We were told it was the scientific consensus of the time and now many of those scientists admit they were wrong.
There are countless examples of climate alarmist predictions that were proved wrong.
In 1970 it was predicted that 4 billion people would die as a result of environmental change by 1989.
Strangely, at the same time the majority of environmental scientists were predicting a new ice age by the year 2000. There was a great deal of alarmism about it. That was completely wrong.
In 1989 UN environmental officials predicted entire nations would be wiped off the face of the earth by rising sea levels due to global warming by the year 2000.
There are loads of other examples.
Scientists aren't always right. I don't think we need to be as afraid of this as the media and governments seem to want us to be.
Btw, it wasn't just David Bellamy that questioned it. There are a lot of other scientists including the founder of Greenpeace. Just because some of their peers have disagreed with them doesn't mean they have been debunked.
Anyway, it's an interesting topic and I have enjoyed discussing it with you
I didn't say that if you believe climate science you are giving up freedoms and liberties. I said that governments are using fear of climate change as an excuse to take away freedoms and liberties, that is a very different thing. They are also using climate change as a justification for some frankly deranged policies such as carpeting over productive farmland with solar panels, trying to "dim the sun" and giving cows potentially cancer causing drugs to stop them farting.
I respect your opinion about climate change and, as I said in my original post, I'm not saying it definitely isn't true. I'm just thinking critically and keeping an open mind.
I care for my environment, I litter pick, look after animals etc. Conservation is very important to me.
However, I choose not to spend my life living in fear of a threat that is unproven and that, even if it were real, I cannot change. That makes me free. Living in fear is not freedom.
I don't know why so many people seem to want to choose to live in fear and become actively upset when they encounter anyone who doesn't. It saddens me. I wish for freedom and happiness for all of us
The horrors of the mines in the Congo are common knowledge, there for all to see. The whole envioroment of Congo DR has been destroyed by the toxins released by these mines, hardly envioronmentally friendly.
Interestingly enough it is also the stuff that smartphone batteries are primarily made of.
There is also data
Until it is erased.
Not everything in science is theory. There is also data - or facts - derived from observation and/or experimentation. Theories are rational constructs used to make sense of data. They have to be the best fit for the available data, otherwise they would not be viable. If new data arises that invalidates a theory, the theory is scrapped and a new theory is postulated. Science is not a belief system, it is empirical and pragmatic, not dogmatic.
Scientists are as certain as they can be about man made climate change, what evidence do you have to the contrary? Or do you suppose that all scientists have been bought off in some way?
Just because the planet has had these episodes before dosent' mean that we're not having an impact and it certainly won't be good for us or the other creatures we share the planet with.
You said in a previous post that you feel those of us who believe the climate science are giving up freedoms and liberties, what are these freedoms and liberties?
Do you practice your last paragraph yourself?
These mines release huge amounts of toxic fumes into the atmosphere and are largley operated by child slaves
I haven’t looked up the sources to check your claim.
However, I agree that electric car production needs valuable metals from the earth and the process can cause toxic fumes that can harm people.
Many of the world’s resources for electric cars and petrol fuelled cars, come from China and the country is heavily polluted from intense manufacture of the various goods it produces.
The processes involved in manufacturing electric cars are far from perfect, but they are less harmful to the environment than the manufacture and use of petrol or diesel vehicles.
I never mentioned the Ice Age
Apologies, I should have requoted you.
The earth has been cooling and warming throughout its entire existence
Cooling and warming of the earth through its entire existence is not in dispute and cooling includes the decrease in temperature of the ice age.
David Bellamy's claim has been questioned, not debunked.
That is incorrect and I include links that show why Bellamy’s conclusion has been debunked.
The Irish Times, Under the Microscope page deals with theories that deserve to be in the realm of myths. Back in 2009, William Reville, Emeritus Professor of Biochemistry at University College, Cork debunked Bellamy’s claim.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/science/bellamy-wrong-on-climate-change-1.72615
Here are more links from reputable sources that address climate change denial.
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2019/sep/analysis-five-climate-change-science-misconceptions-debunked
https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/debunking-eight-common-myths-about-climate-change
we were told that "all scientists" agreed that Lockdown was the only way to combat Covid 19
Some scientist argued that Lockdown was the best way to minimise deaths from Covid 19, but others argued for a different approach. There was not universal claim that there “was only one way to combat Covid” Moreover, the scientists agreed that they were dealing with something that had previously been unknown. You have demonstrated why it is important to delve deeper behind the news or social media reports and to investigate your sources before coming to an opinion.
I am always suspicious of any perceived threat that is used as an excuse to take away our liberties and for governments to have more control in our lives.
What you call a ‘perceived threat’ is in reality mortality for many around the world and my links have shown the evidence for the consequences of climate change is overwhelming.
However, your argument over civil liberties is a separate political argument and you are demonstrating an opinion rather than a fact.
Politically, I align myself more with policies that reflect concern for the care of our planet and for the poor and marginalised in our country and around the world. I don’t like policies that harm through exclusion and stoke up division.
David Bellamy's claim has been questioned, not debunked. All Science should be questioned, that is how we move forward in our understanding of the universe. 5 years ago we were told that "all scientists" agreed that Lockdown was the only way to combat Covid 19. Now, most scientists seem to agree that it did more harm than good.
I never mentioned the Ice Age.
I am always suspicious of any perceived threat that is used as an excuse to take away our liberties and for governments to have more control in our lives. I also think that doing things like carpeting over our farmland with solar panels so that we can't grow our own food is not a good idea.
Pushing people towards electric cars is also something that concerns me. There are many downsides to electric cars, including the vast amounts of batteries needed for each one . One Tesla takes over 7,000 lithium -ion battery cells. The cobalt in this batteries is mined in vast mines in the Congo. These mines release huge amounts of toxic fumes into the atmosphere and are largley operated by child slaves.
So much of what we are told we need to do to prevent climate change is actually very harmful, including the government's new mad idea to "dim the sun"
Anyway, I'm happy to discuss it, it's an interesting topic.
That is a slightly hyperbolic reply. I didn't say I didn't believe in it at all, I just said I question it. We should always question what we are told and decide for ourselves what we believe
Btw, the world is not burning
I was paraphrasing an article in the Guardian.
You don't believe in climate change, well you sit there with your fingers in your ears chanting la-la-la whilt the world burns.
The earth has been cooling and warming throughout its entire existence.
Yes of course it has, and the majority of scientists agree, but it doesn’t explain the rapid increase in global warming in the last 50 years.
Rigorous analysis of all data and lines of evidence shows that most of the observed global warming over the past 50 years or so cannot be explained by natural causes and instead requires a significant role for the influence of human activities.” https://royalsociety.org/news-resources/projects/climate-change-evidence-causes/basics-of-climate-change/
The Royal Society states “Scientists have determined that, when all human and natural factors are considered, Earth’s climate balance has been altered towards warming, with the biggest contributor being increases in CO2”.
When the majority of experts of different disciplines within the scientific community around the world have examined the evidence and come to the same conclusion, and in the absence of any credible evidence to the contrary, a discerning person would think it reasonable to conclude the same. Claiming a debunked theory of David Bellamy and using the fact that there was an ice age, is not credible evidence.
Tragically people around the world are dying as a result of global warming - floods, famines, disease, homes destroyed, families separated or wiped out.
David Bellamy’s argument was made years ago and was not widely accepted by scientists, even at the time. Although Bellamy’s claim has since been debunked, it has more recently gone viral on social media and the quote is used by those of certain political agendas seeking to advance their policies.
This is an interesting question which I have spent a lot of time reading about.
limate change isn’t a theory
First of all, everything in Science is a theory. The whole point of science is to keep questioning what we think we know and what has gone before so that we can learn and develop our knowledge of the universe. At one time, scientific consensus was that the earth is flat, the sun orbits the earth and bleeding with leeches cures diseases so just because something is Scientific consensus doesn't mean it is necessarily true.
I agree with you that the earth is warming. That is indisputable fact. What is questionable is the causes of this. There are actually many scientists over time who have questioned the idea that climate change is caused by human activity. David Bellamy, in particular, did some stellar work on the subject. The earth has been cooling and warming throughout its entire existence. For instance, in the middle ages there was a period where the earth was so hot that there was a drought all over Europe, millions died. Indeed, it was so hot that there were wine growing vineyards in Dorset and Devon and the temperatures in February in Italy were as hot as they are in August now.
Only scientists who provide evidence to prove man made climate change receive funding so obviously most scientists will look to prove this. It's a self fulfilling prophecy.
I'm not saying it isn't true, merely that we should always think critically and that an enquiring mind should never accept things at face value
This is a very intriguing post and I have found it interesting to read the discussions on here. The first point I would make is that the OP suggetss that women are more "aware", which implies that men are less aware, almost as if they vote for right wing parties because they are ignorant. Perhaps I have misunderstood, but if that is the intention then I don't think that's accurate.
As far as the climate crisis goes, I am not convinced that giving up our personal freedoms and liberties in persuit of an unachievable goal for an unproven theory is a good idea.
Speaking personally, I have major qualms about Reform. Farage strikes me as a sort of right wing Jeremy Corbyn, a very good protest leader who would not have the competency to actually run a country. His recent comments about SEN are also quite concerning.
I think there is truth on both the left and right. The Left are right about some things and the Right about others, that's why I try to respect everyone's point of view, provided their arguements are rooted in facts and knowledge.
I don't believe that simply taxing the rich will sort out our problems. It is wealthy people who pay 45% tax which funds the NHS, Universal Credit, public services and education. If we drive rich people out of the country, who will pay the taxes that fund everything?
I don't see a home for myself in any of the major political parties at the moment, I would probably vote conservative if pushed but I have qualms.
Yes - I can relate to this. I feel disillusioned with them all too. As you say - not acting in the best interests of the majority of people - something seriously wrong there!
Yep, I get it. We'll see what happens!
I think vast numbers of people in the uk have that approach of ‘voting for the lesser evil’ (I felt like that at the last election because I really didn’t trust Starmer but I’ve always voted Labour and I felt the Tories were going to be worse than Starmer (and the constituency we were in there was no chance of any other Party getting anywhere). But I now regret giving Starmer my vote as I think he’s turning out worse than I ever imagined.
I now feel completely politically homeless and have no faith in any of them. Not great! And I know so many people feel like this. A lot can happen though in the 4 years before we have another General Election - so it’s hard to say how things will turn out.
I think shedding light on what immigration has done, and is continuing to do, to our country is important. I'll admit that I don't read the news much, I try to avoid it because it is so negative nowadays and I think that has a major impact on the health of those who absorb too much of it, but from some research and also my own personal experience, I can see how immigration has damaged various European nations.
Also, when I say "immigration", it's a very broad topic. I have no issue with a controlled number of immigrants coming legally into a country in an attempt to make a better life for themselves and their family, provided that they contribute to the community that they are being welcomed into, and that they make some attempt to assimilate or to be tolerant of their new neighbours in the same way they expect their new neighbours to be tolerant of them.
However, this is not what is happening in the UK and elsewhere. We have a large number of people coming into this country claiming they are fleeing from war in the Middle East. These people have gone through a number of safe countries and then proceeded to risk their life crossing the English Channel to come here - these are not the actions of someone simply seeking safety. We have since seen a major increase in violent crime, not just in the UK but across many European nations.
I could go further on, but I think I've made my point - I think we are playing a dangerous game by giving up our country and our sovereignty, and we are paying for the privilege of doing so, all whilst being called racist because of the actions of our ancestors.
I do agree with your stance on the NHS. They have struggled with finances since day 1.
As for trusting the Reform Party, again, I must agree with you. However, I don't particularly trust any politician, and when I vote it's a case of choosing the "lesser evil".
I don’t like Reform because I think they encourage division. I understand people’s concerns about immigration - there are positives and negatives to immigration - but I think it can so easily tip into encouraging some quite nasty sides to human nature when a political party starts using immigration as a political football and to stir up tensions in communities. For example: Reform might infer that you can’t get a dentist or doctors appointment “because of immigration” - when in actual fact the main reason for the nhs dentistry problems is more related to changes to nhs contracts with dentists than it is to do with immigration . So I don’t trust Reform as far as I could throw them - because not only do I think they cause division, I also think they have no real desire or intention to make this a fairer country, or to look after the vulnerable in society.
