Published on 12, July, 2020
There are going to be a lot of questions here so sorry in advance if these questions are already answered elsewhere. If you could point me to them that would be really help you thanks.
So some background. I have just graduated from university with a degree in Maths where I got a really good grade. I thought that if I focused on doing my degree well then that would be enough people would hire me because of that but it appears that my degree really didn't matter what I should have been doing is focusing getting internships, work experience and doing projects. It wasn't till after I had completed my degree that I realised I could be autistic there some red flags like the fact that I hadn't talked to anyone in my final two years of uni but it didn't click until after I have graduated. I am in the process of getting diagnosis but I have read that takes a long time to actually do. My strengths are I am very good at completing clear written assignments I have been given, I got 100% in the majority of my university assignments. I am very good at solving problems similar to ones that I have seen before, I ended up with getting at or above 70% in all of my university modules. If I am given a deadline to learn something I can. I enjoy learning things especially how to learn, which is probably one of the main reasons I did so well in uni, I created a structure for myself so I could do well. I also have the weird ability to sometimes understand there is a mistake in my work if I understand what is going on. Everything is interesting to me, I could become a software developer, data analyst or go into cyber security but I have trouble with talking to people so I think software development would probably be the best but I will still need to talk to people in it. The problem is what I want to do is constantly switching every five minutes so it is hard to just pick one and learn the skills I need to get a job because it seems employers want you to already be able to do the job before they hire you which I understand but also that does not help me much. I am also having trouble with figuring out the requirements to actually get the job because it hard to know what I need to be learning. I am also worried about ChatGPT and that will take away most of the entry level programming jobs given enough time so is it even worth still learning programming or should I focus on learning something else. I am not really bothered by what job I get, I like the book "So good they can't ignore you" by Cal Newport which says you should focus on doing things well rather then following your passion. At the end of the day if you can do something well you will eventually enjoy it given enough time but companies seem to think differently they want you to be passionate about the job rather then saying I will do it well anyway.
Sorry for the long ramble, as you can imagine I haven't really talked to people in a while and I don't really like asking for help but I figure if I want to live a good life then I am going to need to ask for help. So some questions for you.
How do I become a software developer? - I know I need to learn a programming language, I know Python and I would say I am a competent beginner I am able to complete tasks I have been given as I look up what I don't know but I don't know how to bridge the gap to intermediate programming which I think I need to use projects for but the problem is I have trouble coming up with project ideas and then actually finishing the project. I probably just need to find ways to trick myself into doing it. I think I also need to learn Data Structures and algorithms but I am not exactly sure what I need to learn and how. I also need to have experience with git and github, so I can host my projects and showcase them. What sort of level should my projects be at before I start applying because I have a tendency to I either over do something or under do something there is no middle ground. Should I focus just on development or should I focus on development in a specific area? E.g Embedded software development seems extremely interesting to me but I have a maths degree not an electrical engineering degree so I am not sure how I would get started learning what I needed to learn. How much time should I expect it to take to learn what I need to learn? I read somewhere that in order to get a job being a developer you need to already see yourself as a software developer. Does that make sense? Is it also even possible to become an embedded software engineer with a maths degree and how do I showcase my skills? Should I focus on learning the skills and look for jobs where they ask for those skills and can showcase in projects that I actually have those skills. I have trouble getting started doing things and not getting distracted when I am doing it. I imagine breaking a problem down into solvable parts is helpful but the problem is actually doing them.
How do I get a part-time job whilst I upskill? I don't have any work experience as I kept putting it off and off until eventually my degree finished and I have no work experience. I don't really have much to put on my CV as the only thing I have really done is worked on my degree and done nothing else. Does it matter? How do I even do an interview? Why do you want this job? Because I want a job not really the best answer. What sort of part-time work should I look into doing, as I imagine customer service is just going to go badly? I honestly have no idea.
Most of the resources out there seem tailored to people with a diagnosis, which I understand why, but are there any resources tailored to undiagnosed people?
How do I get social skills, as currently my social skills are at 0 and I don't know how to move the marker? How do I actually make friends? There is a lot of general information out there but not much specific information.
Sorry for all of the questions, there are probably answers out there already to all of them, the problem is I just don't where and what exactly is relevant to me. There is both too much information and not enough information. So I figured I should just ask them all in one place. There are probably more questions that I just haven't though of yet but these should be the main ones. Sorry, if anything I say is rude, I tend to either get stuck in my own head for days overthinking problems or just blurt out a response where I come across as rude but I don't know how to fix this. I am new to all of this and am trying to figure everything out.
Thank you to anyone who answers. Thank you for your time and I hope you have a great day.
Hi Peter, thank you for your help. I am just going to write down what I am thinking. Sorry if I come across as an *** I am just going to be honest. If I am wrong then tell me, I love being wrong as it means I get to update my beliefs as I get to learn. Anyway, in my opinion there are two main camps of mathematicians, camp 1 is your number theorists, algebraists, discrete mathematicians, these are your creative problem solvers, they pull proof techniques from seemingly out of nowhere. This is what GCHQ and companies want, they want the ability to creatively solve problems and it is relatively easy to assess this you just give them a test with problems they haven't seen before and see how well they do. I am not in this camp, I am firmly in the second camp, the analysts, measure theorists, probability theorists, the logic people. They solve problems as a series of steps each step follows logically from the previous step, the way to prove things in these fields is by understanding definitions, proofs and fitting together the jigsaw pieces. I love this. I love understanding the way things work, I love understanding proofs and figuring out why they work the way they do. I love the black and white aspect of maths either you are right or you are wrong, I have got this inherent understanding of whether things don't quite jive. In my first university maths exam, I found a mistake in the exam paper. I did a research project into a topic and there was one part of a proof I was sure wasn't quite right I kept at it for weeks and then eventually realised how to solve it, it was such a small problem but if it isn't logical and each step follows from the last then I have a hard time with it. I have this itch that can't be scratched to understand things completely. I loved university exams because if I understood all of the proofs then in the exam it was just entering this weird state where I zone out and just answer questions one after another after another and I sort of just forget about them I just solve the next question in the list. It is just simple for me. It is hard to describe. I also love university assignment as it is just problem solving and you have a deadline of when you need to do it by plenty of time for me to check. Anyway more about university, I just focused on doing it well, I broke it down into a series of steps and understood what I needed to do. If you want to do well in a maths degree all you need is spaced repetition for learning the definitions and theorems and then active recall for learning the proofs and then there are bunch of small other stuff you need to take care of but if you take care of the small stuff then the score will take care of itself. The problem with masters and PhD is it feels like everyone has bought into this cool-aid that learning a bunch of theory will actually help you in life but it just doesn't. Everybody that gets a PhD wants to become a professor until they realise it is actually extremely hard to become a professor because every university use PhD students as cheap research, similarly for masters it feels like a way for the university to make more money without actually providing any value. If you know of a career or company that is willing to train people that have the itch that can't be scratched I would love to hear about it. I would get a masters or PhD if it actually meant something and I could understand why but the problem is I can't get a job and I don't know if a masters is actually worth it. Sorry for the long slightly rambly response, any help is greatly appreciated thank you.
With a very good first in Maths, getting funding for further study should be relatively straightforward, as should be getting a relevant job, maths skills are in high demand in many industries. What is in the way, is your lack of social skills. Having passed your time as an undergraduate, where social opportunities are at their lifetime peak for most people, in seclusion, you will now be in a situation where opportunities for socialising are much rarer. I think that you need to concentrate on social skills. I think that you may need to do some analysis of the root of your problems in interacting with other people. Are your problems anxiety-based? Or are you lacking in abilities at non-verbal communication? Such problems can be overcome, a working knowledge of non-verbal communication can be acquired intellectually and social anxiety can be addressed by talking therapies, such as Cognitive Behaviour Therapy (CBT).
I’m sorry I can’t offer you any relevant advice but I just wanted to say you sound absolutely amazing, you must have worked so hard to achieve what you have and are so intelligent, you deserve to feel very proud of yourself, well done
Hi Autonomistic (Interesting Name), thank you for the response. The monotropism link was very helpful.
Autonomistic said:Firstly well done on achieving such a good grade in your degree. Being awarded 100% in your university assignments is truly impressive. I'm sure many employers would be impressed too.
It’s not that rare in mathematics if you have a really good student. A lot of the coursework is only a small component of the degree mark and it’s often pass / fail on each individual question. However getting over 70% on every individual exam is extremely impressive. That was actually my aim when I was in university and I didn’t quite manage it. I imagine it probably puts him in the top 5% of the class or better.
Also while I’m not saying it’s for everyone you should be aware that with good grades like yours you absolutely have the option of doing a PhD.
people have already mentioned to you graduate schemes. I don’t want to push you in the direction in which she would be uncomfortable but I would like to remind you but it’s not just businesses that have graduate schemes. The government does as well. and in particular one of the few areas of government that really likes mathematicians is GCHQ. If you Think you could handle a life where you can’t talk to anyone about your work and you can’t tell anyone except your close family what you actually do and you spend almost every day working on complicated maths without getting any credit for it outside of work then that might be an option for you. GCHQ loves talented mathematicians they make a great codebreakers and I do believe they have a graduate scheme. The downside is almost all of their jobs are in Cheltenham.
and of course the civil service also has graduate schemes for mathematicians although as I’ve said before they tend to value people skills over technical skills even for technical roles. again you might find that it’s a bit better in terms of valuing technical skills in the defence sector working for something like DSTL The Ministry of defences science lab division.
Incidentally if you did want to do embedded computer programming the language you need to learn is C or C++. The vast majority of computer programming in embedded systems is done in C flavoured languages. although in some cases they actually still use assembly. And with assembly programming each individual type of processor microchip has its own language. C is one of the lowest level efficient languages you can learn that you don’t have to learn specific things for specific CPUs to use.
Well I might be able to help at least with some advice. Just to give you some information about my background. I am autistic I didn’t get diagnosed until later in life although it was suggested I was autistic in my university degree. My degree was also in mathematics. I then did a PhD and an MSc and now work as a research scientist.
with regards to your career in spite of you saying you’re not really bothered about what you do I think it’s hugely important you find a job that you are passionate and engaged with. For a while I worked as a mathematical analyst for the government and while on paper my job involved research and mathematics it was all so simple and basic for me that I got quite frustrated with it. And frankly the civil service has more emphasis on people skills than technical excellence even if you’re in a technical role.
so I think it will be really helpful if you can tell us about what it is you enjoy and what kind of activities you think you would get satisfaction out of at work. As for a lack of creativity and creative problem-solving if you’ve really excelled in a mathematics degree I find that very difficult to believe. I’m sure you’re aware that mathematics isn’t just about learning theorems it’s about being able to prove them and constructing a mathematical proof is an extremely creative process that often requires you find some really new and novel perspective on the situation. it may not be the kind of creativity that anyone outside of mathematics can appreciate but it’s certainly a form of creativity. So would you really say you’re bad at creative problem-solving or are you possibly just bad at creative people skills?
Hi, Autonomistic has given you a great answer so I’ll just concentrate on a couple of your points.
I’m older than you, but like you did well at university academically but didn’t speak to anyone. But I have had a very successful career in IT.
So, firstly have you applied for any graduate schemes at big and medium sized companies? They will take on people from a wide range of backgrounds and train them in the necessary IT skills. The company I work for takes on graduates and apprentices and exposes them to a range of different jobs so they can find what works for them - software development, cyber, infrastructure, data even project management or sales - and gives them the appropriate training.
This is how I got my first proper job. I missed the deadline the year I left uni and applied for a huge number of jobs (~150). But I managed to get a graduate position for the following year’s intake, so it’s never too late.
So I would start applying to as many companies as I can if I were you. While you’re doing that there are lots of online resources, many free, which you can use to skill up or figure out if you’re interested in specific roles. I’m happy to discuss those further if you want.
As for social skills, I’m still not brilliant in that regard but I am massively better than when I left university. Working with other people is great training to bring you out of your shell and develop strategies and scripts for common social situations.
I struggled with interviews but managed to get reasonably good at them through practice - another side effect of applying for lots of jobs. This is probably true of neurotypicals too - it’s just a skill you need to practice.
You’re at a great point in your life with so much potential and possibility ahead of you. If there’s anything else we can you with please just ask.
Welcome to the community
Firstly well done on achieving such a good grade in your degree. Being awarded 100% in your university assignments is truly impressive. I'm sure many employers would be impressed too.
My observation is that you are in a but of a tailspin and trying to solve too many problems at the same time. That is understandable as you are at a critical point in your life and obviously are keen to make the right choices. Autistic brains tend to be monotropic, which means that they work best when highly focused on one thing at a time. There was a link to a monotropism questionnaire posted on here recently, if you want to test yourself.
https://community.autism.org.uk/f/adults-on-the-autistic-spectrum/34220/an-mq-test-quiz
I either completely shut down and say nothing at all or I eventually say something weird. I can't really control what I say, either I say nothing or I say everything that pops up into my head.
It's clear that you are very logical and analytical and approach everything in life as a problem to 'solve' using those skills. I'm very similar myself. That can work very well for things like maths and computing but less well for things like social skills and making friends.
Like you I tend to shut down and not speak at all or say something that isn't appropriate to the situation. It's been a lifelong problem for me and I workaround it by using written communication wherever I can.
What many autistic people do is learn from observing others. There are also books on the subjects which may help. However if you deliberately 'mask' your natural self to try and fit in it can be exhausting, damaging to your mental health and result in burnout.
There is some good advice here: https://autismunderstood.co.uk/social-stuff/friendships/
In your situation I would focus wholly on the job seeking and improving your interview skills. If you can find work in an environment that suits you then you may well find like minded people there. Talking about what interests you tends to be a bit easier.
How do I get a part-time job whilst I upskill? I don't have any work experience as I kept putting it off and off until eventually my degree finished and I have no work experience. I don't really have much to put on my CV as the only thing I have really done is worked on my degree and done nothing else. Does it matter? How do I even do an interview?
There are employers who will recruit people straight out of university without work experience. I feel that trying to take on a part time job at this stage will just add to the pressure you are under.
Therefore consider carefully if that experience will actually help your CV or not. You can put a lot on your CV already, based upon the skills you have clearly demonstrated academically. You have already mentioned many strengths and skills in your post.
There are a lot of resources online about improving interview skills but you also need practice as well as the theory. You can if you wish disclose that you may be autistic and ask for reasonable adjustments, although they may not be granted until you receive a formal diagnosis.
https://employmentautism.org.uk/reasonable-adjustments-for-interviews-and-assessments/
Being given the questions in advance, so that you can script the perfect answer, would be a huge help in an interview. Autistic people can struggle to be able to come up with answers on the spot, especially in the pressured environment of an interview.
Everything is interesting to me, I could become a software developer, data analyst or go into cyber security
Those all sound good areas to consider but I don't have any direct experience to help. Based upon my limited knowledge I would say there is always going to be demand for suitable people within cyber security.
Your choices are limited by what jobs are actually available and what employers are willing to hire someone straight out of university. I would suggest you start narrowing your options that way.
Good luck!