Does anyone else hate the Linux analogy?

Well assuming you’re female bodied One thing you’ve got going for you is that femininity and popularity as perceived by men has a hell of a lot more to do with your appearance and your body than your social skills.

if you want to affirm your femininity you can go a long way just with the way you dress, make up, hairstyling, The way you walk, things that can be studied learnt and taught. If you look like a supermodel no one will give a toss that you talk like a nerd.

Peter said:

if you want to affirm your femininity you can go a long way just with the way you dress, make up, hairstyling, The way you walk, things that can be studied learnt and taught. If you look like a supermodel no one will give a toss that you talk like a nerd.

Why should autistic women do that to please others? 

It's encouraging masking.

With regard to your last line, what you look like is only a part of attraction.

I think you are grossly over simplifying the situation for women.

I am friends with the 1st man I had a full intimate relationship with in my early 30s, and he told me recently that at the time he met me he was amazed I hadn't had a string of previous boyfriends, because of my looks.

However, now he says he understands why ie my autism (undiagnosed then).

Autism affects everything you are and everything you do, say and think.

No matter how attractive I was, the way I behaved was so different from other women that it alienated me from men on top of which my own responses to situations where I met men e.g. social anxiety, getting overwhelmed (I could go on and on) meant that any opportunities to be asked out tended to not come to fruition.

It's actually a very complicated question with a miriad different aspects to be analysed.

I could write a dissertation on this having got to 61 and with a wealth of knowledge and experience to look back on.

To misquote you: Even though I may have looked like a model, everyone cared: How I talked, behaved, thought, as someone very alien from what they were used to'....

Add onto that my own struggles with social interaction as a part of the autism.

Peter said:

One thing you’ve got going for you is that femininity and popularity as perceived by men has a hell of a lot more to do with your appearance and your body than your social skills.

Are you talking for all men there?

Once again, think that's incorrect.

Why should autistic women do that to please others? 

I'm not suggesting she should. She wants to feel more feminine. Making others view her as more feminine will make them treat her as being more feminine which will help her feel more feminine thus benefiting her. External affirmation is a powerful thing for ones mental well being.

And yes I am oversimplifying but it's largely true that if you look hot and girly and wear pretty dresses men will not care as much if you act like a tom boy. In fact some prefer this. That's my personal opinion based on my own subjective experience. I'm not saying its irrelevant how you act, and a lack of confidence / high anxiety is seen as negative in either sex, But if you spend an evening bending a mans ear about F1 racing or 70s vacuum tube electronics (if that's your special interest) he's not going to view you as less as of a girl if you're wearing a sexy dress and looking hot.

I've known a lot of hot nerdy girls. None of them ever had difficulty getting boys or had issues being seen as masculine. But they were the kind of girls to wear skimpy outfits and do over the top flirting.

Edit: I'm positive quite a few of them were autistic ... and I'm envious tbh. It's like they found the cheat code for autism.

Peter said:

I’m not a Neanderthal,

Of course not.

My apologies for that comment, which was uncalled for.

How did I not know that?? 

Now, thanks to your input, I have to resubmit my whole application to join the "Always Right Party" AGAIN!

I'll never be accepted at this rate...

Actually ironically many anthropologist's believe that the genes for language originated in neanderthal DNA and were transferred to Homosapiens through interbreeding. This is not my field but arguably if it’s true clear language is a Neanderthal trait.

Debbie, you stepped over into that space that so many of us do of thinking that our opinions have special relevance and must be taken into account by those who do not share them. I've given you one of my rare downvotes for that. Not that it matters a fig in the real world ofc.

Peters opinions and conclusions far from being "neanderthal" are very carefully considered and sometimes very nuanced. He clearly is a type of basic "unmodified" man who like many of us is simply unable to see humans as fungible and interchangeable units, but unique and diverse individuals, and this colours his responses. That is not in harmony with the zeitgeist of our current society of course.

HE has offered his opinion to the O/P who wanted to know how to be more I-Phone, and knowing women well I suspect, he has kept it short and easy to implement. Whether it fits with your experience is simply irrelevant to the discussion, she just asked how to make herself more attractive, and that's what he told her!

Peter often saves me the time and trouble of posting, because he is way better at being clear in his choice of words than I am. 

Certainly not a "Neanderthal attribute.."

I guess everyone does have different personal experiences. Forgive me I don’t want to be presumptuous but I imagine you probably went to university in the late 80s early 90s? Pre ‘girl power’ shall we say? before it became more socially acceptable, even fashionable, for women to be very open and in your face about sexuality. I’m not sure your experience would necessarily hold up to the experience of students circa 2010.

and I’m not a Neanderthal. i’m far worse than that I’m a misanthrope. I think very very little of society or social norms and the more people seem to conform blindly to society from my point of view the more likely I am to think very very little of them.

my point being that I tend to reject social norms about both femininity and masculinity. I’m the kind of guy Who’d conscript women into the military (except that I’m opposed to conscription) and call it gender equality. The kind of guy that would force women’s refuge charities to open centre's for men And call that gender equality too.

I’m not a Neanderthal, I don’t desire at all to push men or women in to traditional gender roles. But I am offended by the hypocrisy of a society that decries traditional gender roles But then tries very hard to try and enforce a status quo with regards to gender roles.

Peter said:

ut they were the kind of girls to wear skimpy outfits and do over the top flirting.

Edit: I'm positive quite a few of them were autistic

I doubt that very much.

Nothing you say here resonates with my own experience of being a woman and to be honest, your attitude towards women sometimes comes across to me as rather Neanderthal.

Peter said:

ut they were the kind of girls to wear skimpy outfits and do over the top flirting.

Edit: I'm positive quite a few of them were autistic

I doubt that very much.

Nothing you say here resonates with my own experience of being a woman and to be honest, your attitude towards women sometimes comes across to me as rather Neanderthal.

Peter said:

I’m not a Neanderthal,

Of course not.

My apologies for that comment, which was uncalled for.

How did I not know that?? 

Now, thanks to your input, I have to resubmit my whole application to join the "Always Right Party" AGAIN!

I'll never be accepted at this rate...

Actually ironically many anthropologist's believe that the genes for language originated in neanderthal DNA and were transferred to Homosapiens through interbreeding. This is not my field but arguably if it’s true clear language is a Neanderthal trait.

Debbie, you stepped over into that space that so many of us do of thinking that our opinions have special relevance and must be taken into account by those who do not share them. I've given you one of my rare downvotes for that. Not that it matters a fig in the real world ofc.

Peters opinions and conclusions far from being "neanderthal" are very carefully considered and sometimes very nuanced. He clearly is a type of basic "unmodified" man who like many of us is simply unable to see humans as fungible and interchangeable units, but unique and diverse individuals, and this colours his responses. That is not in harmony with the zeitgeist of our current society of course.

HE has offered his opinion to the O/P who wanted to know how to be more I-Phone, and knowing women well I suspect, he has kept it short and easy to implement. Whether it fits with your experience is simply irrelevant to the discussion, she just asked how to make herself more attractive, and that's what he told her!

Peter often saves me the time and trouble of posting, because he is way better at being clear in his choice of words than I am. 

Certainly not a "Neanderthal attribute.."

I guess everyone does have different personal experiences. Forgive me I don’t want to be presumptuous but I imagine you probably went to university in the late 80s early 90s? Pre ‘girl power’ shall we say? before it became more socially acceptable, even fashionable, for women to be very open and in your face about sexuality. I’m not sure your experience would necessarily hold up to the experience of students circa 2010.

and I’m not a Neanderthal. i’m far worse than that I’m a misanthrope. I think very very little of society or social norms and the more people seem to conform blindly to society from my point of view the more likely I am to think very very little of them.

my point being that I tend to reject social norms about both femininity and masculinity. I’m the kind of guy Who’d conscript women into the military (except that I’m opposed to conscription) and call it gender equality. The kind of guy that would force women’s refuge charities to open centre's for men And call that gender equality too.

I’m not a Neanderthal, I don’t desire at all to push men or women in to traditional gender roles. But I am offended by the hypocrisy of a society that decries traditional gender roles But then tries very hard to try and enforce a status quo with regards to gender roles.