Bring Back Aspie

But it's a false equivalence, I'm not a car, I wasn't artificially designed to perform in a single predetermined niche, I have to be able to do lots of different things to at least some degree in order to navigate this world and the society we live in that's the issue I have with variable functioning.
I wish I was expected to do just the one or few things I do well and then nothing else like a car, it would make my life much easier but that is not the case of what my life is like.

I'm going to jump in on this, because autism is a spectrum as another poster says, it's not two points on opposite ends of a line like you want your example to show. As people have said, sometimes you have higher support needs than others, and some people can be high functioning in terms of IQ but low functioning in terms of sensory processing. And vice versa. A service that provides all support to all autistic people covers every possible eventuality in one service, in one place, with minimal numbers of different people.

Also your car metaphor doesn't work fully, there are plenty of manufacturers that produce performance cars and people carriers. Mercedes off the top of my head, and BMW.

Sometimes something can be something to all people, not just certain people if that makes sense.

🐝 Bees 🐝 (they/them) Autism resources in bio #stoptheshock #NothingAboutUsWithoutUs said:

But why would you split the service if a specialist to cover every area needed is already in the same building?

Again ... apply the car metaphor? So why aren't sports cars, usually, designed and manufactured by the same people as people carriers? Its the same principle. Different priorities, different engineering, different ethos and to some degree different customers even though, yes, some people want both a sports car and a people carrier. It's the same with autism services. To avoid compromising the quality of one thing for another separation is useful. Otherwise you end up selling 6 seater sports cars and people carriers with low suspension and no head room. Sooner or later one (or both) visions of what the service should be will lose out and end up compromised.

But why would you split the service if a specialist to cover every area needed is already in the same building?

Peter said:

Actually space is one of the things it really does make sense to share. Lots of charities have agreements to share buildings. But when they start sharing staff and money sometimes the mission of one can be compromised for the other.

But that's what I'm saying many of us would need the same staff anyway, also one cannot be more or less deserving of funding we all need the services the areas needed most would already be managed by the organisation It doesn't need to be artbritrality split into services for people with high or low IQ if most of us will needa lot of the same help anyway. I don't see why my funtioning needs support in one area should be compromissed just because I'm also getting support in the other areas I function to a different degree.

Peter said:

It's not about being ashamed of this or that person.

 I understand we all type things out in a clunky way or accidentally omit vital details sometimes and aren't always as eloquent as we'd like, but it would certainly help with these fractious topics if you could maybe lead with that next time. Because I have encountered "Aspie" supremacists (sorry to the user here with that username) who fancy themselves as some kind of Sheldon Cooper, and talk of splitting us autists back up into old labels is usually their opener and can quickly lead down that path of encouraging internalised ableism within the community.

🐝 Bees 🐝 (they/them) Autism resources in bio #stoptheshock #NothingAboutUsWithoutUs said:

Peter I and others like me literally are the overlap, also complexity in autistic experience isn't the exception it is the "rule".

I'm not debating that. Look it's ok to own 2 cars, a fuel efficient mini car you drive to work and a sports car you drive at the weekend. Would the world be a better place if all sports car manufactures had to make mini city cars and vica versa? Allowing a service to specialise can mean better service. Trying to cover all the bases in one company / charity can lead to a one size fits all approach.

🐝 Bees 🐝 (they/them) Autism resources in bio #stoptheshock #NothingAboutUsWithoutUs said:

Well you know what if someone less functioning than me who needs care full time sits next to me I'm not ashamed to share my space with them.

Actually space is one of the things it really does make sense to share. Lots of charities have agreements to share buildings. But when they start sharing staff and money sometimes the mission of one can be compromised for the other. That is my point. It's not about being ashamed of this or that person.

Peter said:

Actually no. It isn't always more desirable to run two quite different services together just because the people being served share some things in common. For starters if service A and B don't have much overlap

Peter I and others like me literally are the overlap, also complexity in autistic experience isn't the exception it is the "rule".

Peter said:

 services for low functioning autistic people tend to see their carers as customers (in the same way that schools actually treat parents like customers not children). Services for high functioning autistic people it really has to be the autistic person themselves that is the customer.

But I have a support person even as a "HFA", are you putting me on the same level as a child who needs an adult to make decisions for me just because I need the support of a friendly face in the room? Really?
Sorry but I get the impression that those of you who deem yourself to struggle less and be on some higher rung just don't want to have to sit with us "other" autitic people in the same waiting rooms for no discernable good reason. Well you know what if someone less functioning than me who needs care full time sits next to me I'm not ashamed to share my space with them.
Sorry Peter I've always tried to give you the benefit of the doubt as you seem genuine and intelligent but I don't think you realise the full repercussions of what you said and it's implications and why they are offensive. I realise you may have had 0 intention of doing so but that is the effect it has regardless.

Actually no. It isn't always more desirable to run two quite different services together just because the people being served share some things in common. For starters if service A and B don't have much overlap the 2 services are always going to be in competition and as people 'move up' through the ranks if some one who used to work in service A takes over the top job they will naturally want to increase service A's budget ... which leads to service B having its budget cut.

Also services for low functioning autistic people tend to see their carers as customers (in the same way that schools actually treat parents like customers not children). Services for high functioning autistic people it really has to be the autistic person themselves that is the customer. Its really difficult psychologically for any business or charity to think about serving two different sets of customers who's preferences are often at odds.

Aside from the name, I think the problem with classifying or dividing into aspergers/high functioning/low support is it suggests a linear spectrum. I prefer the thing with circles and different segments.

I agree with what Roy said too that support needs can change daily/monthly/yearly.  This time last year I was signed off with stress and the main goal the doctor gave me was to try and leave the house every day. I was surviving not high functioning which I guess is where that classification would put me.

But why should they be separate services? Why not just have one service that can attend to all levels of support? That would be much more efficient both organisationally for the service and logistically for autistic people not having to go to different places potentially on the same day (which can be overwhelming because of sensory issues when travelling).

I'm currently waiting on my assessment but I'm what would be considered Asperger's or high functioning. Personally, I would never want to be associated with a man that initially labelled a group of children with distinct psychological characteristics like mine as ‘autistic psychopaths’.

Further, taken from another page:

"Asperger managed to accommodate himself to the Nazi regime and was rewarded for his affirmations of loyalty with career opportunities. He joined several organizations affiliated with the NSDAP (although not the Nazi party itself), publicly legitimized race hygiene policies including forced sterilizations and, on several occasions, actively cooperated with the child ‘euthanasia’ program. The language he employed to diagnose his patients was often remarkably harsh (even in comparison with assessments written by the staff at Vienna’s notorious Spiegelgrund ‘euthanasia’ institution), belying the notion that he tried to protect the children under his care by embellishing their diagnoses."

https://molecularautism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13229-018-0208-6

No, never call me Asperger's, I'm autistic, level 1, high functioning, whatever, but not Asperger's.

I understand completely. I find that a lot of people are very dismissive of the diagnosis if they do not see the typical signs of autism in me (I mask heavily - working on that) and then I don't feel seen.  It's also very difficult for me not to mask. Ive been doing it for the better part of 30 years.  I think Aspergers explains my specific situation much better. I don't mind being grouped into the broader umbrella term just as autism, but just in terms of clarification, I think it is helpful and could bring more awareness. 

A scientist once said all models are wrong, but some are useful. I think you can expand that to labels. All labels are wrong ... but some are useful. ... to paraphrase humpty dumpty “When I use a label it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less."

Instead of 'Asperger's' or 'high functioning,' could we say 'invisible autism' or 'hidden autism?'

Services for autistic people

I find the labels unhelpful and generally incorrect. I guess I must be thought of as high functioning but really it depends on the day and how I am. Sometimes I'm low functioning, I can't go out, I can't talk... If I'm in that mode I'm far from high functioning.

I also feel that having different levels puts a lot of unnecessary pressure on people who aren't high functioning and makes them want to be and pushes them to try to be. I think just the words autism or aspie are enough. Levels aren't really needed surely?

I think that the term "late diagnosed" is useful for describing the different life experiences of this group, but I also am firmly against creating a hierarchy based on the perceived competency of autistic people.  

I am a firm believer in neurodiversity, and that we should all support each other as part of the autistic community.  Those who can articulate more clearly have the opportunity to be a voice for those who struggle to be heard.  We will not achieve any significant change in society until we realise that we all need each other.  

There are several autistic people who don't speak with their mouths, but are able to communicate in other ways such as typing, and when they get their thoughts out it can be so profound that it makes me question how many people are lumped in the "low functioning" just because they don't speak when in fact their minds understand much more than others perceive.

From a social stigma point of view, I think it is more important to raise the voices of the autistic community as a whole, no matter what form they take, so that we can challenge that stigma and make being autistic as minimal a problem as being left-handed.

I find the different functioning labels unhelpful, I suppose I would be classed as a HFA, I work, drive and have a family.  Some days I’m unable to work, become non verbal and need to be totally alone. On those days I can just about dress myself and certain sensitivities can become greatly magnified. 
This is why autistic descriptor labels aren’t suitable for autistic people, our needs can vary on a daily basis.

From reading about Hans Asperger and his involvement with the N*zis, I am of Jewish descent and would not have his name linked to me.

Peter said:

advertising purposes

Advertising what exactly?

Good point about the challenges 

Asperger's for me doesn't feel like a helpful term. If the old system were still around, I'm not sure if I would be in this category or general 'autistic' because although I am very high functioning, one of my traits I was told was "at odds with my intellect". Asperger's just feels like another way to say "high functioning", which doesn't fully capture the fact I am very able but I often need help with understanding people's spoken words. I much prefer the idea of being just "autistic" - I am on the spectrum, not in a box.