Suing due to disability discrimination

I refer back to what I said 18th June. The current website doesn't seem to know about aspergers or autism, but next year's Accessibility document seems to have it slipped in without explanation.

Therefore I suspect the college has only just found out that it might have to provide for autism. I imagine they are going to look into it further after September.

I too had got the impression you had already started there. If you haven't yet enrolled it may be worth asking to talk to the College Principal.

Best of luck.

I see.  That wasn't clear from your OP as it just said that you 'couldn't attend college'.

In that case, suing them is likely to be even more difficult, as you are not even one of their students. You may have had a stronger case had you already been accepted on a course and then found they would not make provision for your disabilities.

A college administrator, or any college member of staff, should not be commenting on your diagnostic status - unless they moonlight as a clinical psychologist/psychiatrist who has done their own clinical assessment on you personally.  Perhaps you ought to bring that to their attention when you remind them of their responsibilities under the Equality Act 2010.

It's your choice what action you take, plenty of information has been provided by links for you to check what the specifics are and to enable appropriate action as you wish.  Hope it works out for you.

I've not applied yet. I wanted to see what support they'd give me before I applied.

I've had to deal with this jobsworth before. She can't tell the difference between Dyslexia (which I've never been diagnosed with, nor has it ever been suggested) and visual impairment. That was after I supplied evidence, which states I'm known to social services as a visually impaired person.

I never told them I don't have Autism. It's them who claim I don't have it. That was decided after seeing me for about 15 minutes.

I do wonder how she got her job. She has no qualifications to my knowledge for which she can diagnose people with anxiety (which she told me I have and not Autism) and Dyslexia.

Have you not provided them something in writing to say that you have AS?  Did you not state a disability on your application form?

Perhaps you could show them your diagnostic report/letter and allow them to copy a relevant page stating the diagnosis for their files, or give them the name and contact details of the diagnostician and tell them they are welcome to contact them for any verification they need?  Alternatively you could suggest they write to your GP, who presumably has your diagnosis on your health records?

It's very strange that they are saying you told them you didn't have AS - an ordinary student wouldn't apply for college and say "Oh, just to let you know, I don't have autism."  so that's a very weird response from them.

Are you dealing with a junior person can I ask?  It might be that there is some jobsworth misinterpreting or unaware of the law and just fobbing you off.  You could write to the head of the college or course leader if they aren't already aware of your requirements and their duties.  Maybe now is the time to write and name the Acts and laws they are breaching and they ought to be aware of their legal responsibilities towards their students.  This might help with this:

http://www.education.gov.uk/ta-assets/~/media/get_into_teaching/resources/life_as_a_teacher/adjustments_for_disabled_students.pdf

Here you can find your disability officer (don't know if this is universities only or colleges too): http://www.dsa-qag.org.uk/Find-a-Disability-Officer/find-your-disability-officer.html

The NAS has this information, which may not be specific to what you need but they might be able to guide you elsewhere that is:

http://www.autism.org.uk/Our-services/Education-and-schools/Post-16s/Student-and-graduate-support/Student-support.aspx

You could also send the college this:

http://www.autism.org.uk/working-with/education/education-professionals-in-fe-and-he/education-meeting-the-needs-of-students-in-fe-and-he.aspx

and this (which lists some or all of the adjustments you are requesting):

http://www.autism.org.uk/working-with/education/education-professionals-in-fe-and-he/college-and-university-supporting-students-with-asperger-syndrome.aspx

This page gives helpful information: http://www.autism.org.uk/18455

Regarding suing, you could contact a lawyer telling them you believe they are discriminating against you according to the Equality Act 2010, as things have changed with regards to legal aid I don't know how you would sue if you can't afford it yourself, but you could talk to Citizen's Advice about possible actions.

Did you try contacting the organisation the NAS moderator linked to further up this thread?

Longman mentioned the EHRC, here is their website: http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/advice-and-guidance/guidance-for-employers/the-duty-to-make-reasonable-adjustments-for-disabled-people/reasonable-adjustments-in-practice/

Received a response to my complaint to the college. That was a waste of time. They claimed that I said I don't have Autism, I don't need the help recommended by another college and 2 disabled students allowance (DSA) assessors and that they won't allow me to leave the room if I get sensory overload. What exactly am I meant to do about the final point? I can't stay in a room full of noise.

NAS have been useless. I received an email from them this morning regarding my email dated 20th May. For some reason, I got a response from welfare rights, even though I'd clearly stated it was an education related issue.

I meant that they think autism in general is something people grow out of.....

It is obvious that Autism and Asperger's Syndrome has only got into next academic year's Accessibility document as a last minute addition. There's nothing else in the document to suggest they know about it, for example NAS isn't a listed contact organisation.

Their CURRENT policies make no mention of Autism or Asperger's Syndrome.

So I suspect the reason they have said they don't think you have it means they've suddenly realised they've no provision and they're trying to get you out of their predicament. It is clear they have no understanding of it.

You really wonder what has happened previously.

This is the behaviour of a very badly run F E College - what I referred to earlier as anaerobic pond life. The poor quality of their disability provision is really shocking. Their definition of dyscalculia is a case in point, what they've actually defined is an aspect of dyslexia.

They really know very little about disability.  Which is sad for people in Devon.

Yes, that is the college. They haven't been told it's something I'll grow out of. They simply believe I don't have it. The explanation being that she thinks a relative of hers has it and I'm nothing like him. (I'm a female, btw and we're meant to be different to males on the spectrum) Therefore, I don't have it. Bearing in mind, I've been diagnosed and a friend of mine who is on the spectrum and known me for much longer, says I have it.

Or have I misunderstood you and you mean people growing out of Autism in general?

You've got me going on this now. I looked for FE in Plymouth and got City College Plymouth (is this the one? Can't think why it didn't come up on my original search).

Under Student Life and Support they have Studying with Disability (www.cityplym.ac.uk/.../studying-disabilities). This lists Dyslexia, Dyspraxia, Dyscalculia, Dysgraphia and ADHD, with little explanatory paragraphs and links to related websites. Nothing about autism or Asperger's Syndrome - have they been told its something you grow out of?

They do have an Accessibility Committment for 2013/2014 which list begins with Autism or Asperger's Syndrome. But there is no other mention of it in this document, which expands on everything else, so it may be that autism is something they've just found out about and slipped into the plan for courses starting in the autumn.

There is a list of specialist equipment supplied by the library. It does say on p15 that coloured paper is available if you need it.

A list of outside agencies they work with doesn't include NAS or any other autism organisation.

The document includes a complaints procedure. But the Principal's introduction says they've been successfully reviewed for the two-ticks disability symbol (L. O. L). And they make a big thing about Disabled Go.

It sounds like there is something fundamentally wrong here. The Autism Act clearly hasn't reached this part of Britain.

NAS - this is truly bad.  Anticipatory provision is a key part of disability legislation for F E Colleges, and it clearly isn't happening in Devon. What's the local authority compliance with the Autism Act like?

I've just had a look at my local college's (Plymouth) access committ statement and they said "we can help you if you have Aspergers Symdrome or Autism [a load of other disabilities] and sight difficulties". Yeah, whatever. That's why I was told to just get counselling (because apparently, I just have anxiety) and was told to use the aids I bought out of my own pocket which don't help fully at all.

They also claim they can offer support assistants - I was told no.

I am wondering how what they're (not) doing is even legal. They can't justify their reasons at all.

F E Colleges haven't done anything like as much as universities had to do. Also their websites are less revealing than universities, and a poor showing on the website doesn't mean a college is failing in its duties.

Even so, I looked at three Devonshire FE Colleges: Petroc, South Devon and Exeter. Petroc sounds as if it ought to be in Cornwall but it is what came up on Google.

The showing from all three is dismal. Petroc and Exeter read "Accessibility" as how to change the font size on your computer screen. It is hard to find anything out - all three have brief waffle under most headings. 

Exeter College - Equality and Diversity seems to be about having a mix of people from all walks of life. Equality Duty is "a general one for everyone". There is an Equality and Diversity Policy, but it is the single equality policiy type, standard phrases that apply to all aspects. Very very disappointing.

South Devon - Single Equality Scheme which says hardly anything meaningful. 

Petroc - A-Z has nothing on disability, and Equality and Diversity statement is two paragraphs, the second just saying they've hasd thousands of satisfied students. There is a two-and-a-half page table that says nothing. And there is an everyone is welcome statement. Poorest of the three.

Verifies the postcode lottery. Devn looks to me to be an absolute disgrace. But NAS may be able to offer some conciliatory remarks. I'm only going by the three colleges' poor websites.

How do they get away with it?

I'm in Devon.

stranger said:

I have contacted NAS and haven't had a response yet. I've been waiting a few weeks for them to reply to me.

It might just be worth getting back in touch and asking what's happening. The person you've contacted might not be able to say much more than I have, but someone may have some more specific advice. It will be useful to know (privately, if you don't want to say so here) where in the UK you are based, as this does make a difference.

Sorry for the delay.

Best wishes,

Alex R - mod

Thanks.

Regarding the magnifier - my particular visual impairments mean that no aids fully correct the problem. No matter what and how many aids you give me, I am still going to need help.

If I have sensory overload, I have to leave now. Not in 2 minutes time. Most people are fine with this. The lcoal support group I attend, we went to a pub for the evening. I warned them before hand that if it gets too noisy, I'll be outside. As it happens, I didn't need this.

I have contacted NAS and haven't had a response yet. I've been waiting a few weeks for them to reply to me.

Unfortunately, this is the only college in the city. The closest other college (in another city) is a good hour away by public transport.

Hi stranger,

I asked a colleague about possible sources of help for you. Here's what they said:

If you live in England or Wales you can contact Disability Rights UK’s Disabled Student Helpline on 0800 328 5050 or visit their website: http://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/how-we-can-help/helplines/disabled-students-helpline

If you live in Scotland you can contact Lead Scotland on 0800 999 2568 or visit their website: www.lead.org.uk

If you live in Northern Ireland you can contact Disability Action on 028 9029 7880 or visit their website: www.disabilityaction.org

I hope this proves useful.

Best wishes,

Alex R - mod

Well I only got to where I am now making those mistakes. I used to write letters full of block capitals and excamation marks. I think I just provided entertainment - textual meltdown.

Also I used to think a barrage of letters/emails worked - I had this image of an 18th century battleship giving a barrage of canon fire progressively along the length of the ship.  It doesn't achieve anything. Just confuses and bewilders people.

To be honest you achieve something if its just a nudge in the right direction. If you nudge occasionally it might over time, and if others are doing the same, amount to a productive shift.

But it is paramount in my view to research the facts thoroughly and look at all the angles. If you are a well informed protestor that has a lot more impact.

That said I still don't get things right all the time. I'm inclined to perseverate - and really have to watch myself. That is I tend to get obsessive about an issue and keep hammering at it well beyond what is necessary.

I also have difficulty seeing the whole picture. I'll fire off a response then realise I missed other angles or dimensions, and have to send a fresh expanded communication, only to realise I've missed more possibilities. Maybe if I didn't have aspergers I'd see things clearer.

To get back to stranger's original concern, I think this is something for his local NAS branch (if there is one) to look into. If the college is not meeting its obligations under anticipatory measures, thats a serious matter. It shouldn't be up to ondivviduals like stranger to fight that alone. This is where NAS should come in. Hello NAS, any moderators listening.........

longman said:

I'm all for making a vigorous stand when required. And I have done so - often - sometimes successfully. I have, on occasions, managed to influence change. But that is very hard to do withiout a lot of research and a lot of care.

However an organisation has to have a case to answer and a reality you need to recognise is that while individuals get screwed in this country, big money and corporations are protected by vaguaries in law. Unfortunately for us the protection we were offered by the Disability Act and the Autism Act has no meaning if the conditions on organisations are so woolly and ineffectual due to caveats that you cannot pin down any wrongdoing.

Take a look at the initial outcomes from local authorities re "Leading Rewarding and Fulfilling Lives" which is why we have the current "red button" NAS campaign.

The sad fact is an FE or HE institution is only required to make reasonable provision, and the definition of reasonable is woolly and open to legal debate. Since the initial fear about prosecutions and litigation has dissipated, most FE and HE institutions seem prepared to gamble on whether not providing some support is cheaper than any improbable litigation.

I can honestly assure you, you wont feel better after a punch up with an institution's lawyers. The sooner you realise that being an ordinary human counts for little, the better you'll feel.

I really do advise against staging a "freak out". You are the one who could face prosecution.

What might help stranger is getting his local councillor to interpose with the college, assuming his local councillor is up to it, and not just a party political poser.

Longman, I have lot of respect for you, you can see all the social angles at play here which are beyond me, were as I always get taken in with emotional and the promising side of there games set to trip us up and exhaust us long-term.

If you consult the technical guide for Further and Higher Education produced by EHRC they don't have to know about you having a disability or not to include anticipatory measures for potential disabled needs.

Two clear anticipatory provisions are coloured paper and the right to leave a classroom if distressed.

Coloured paper is a crucial issue for a range of conditions, including conditions that don't constitute a disability, but particularly dyslexia and autistic spectrum, and certainly if you have an eye condition on top, you need to avoid whiter paper. White paper, because it is highly reflective, and oversaturates the eye, is actually not a good idea. They MUST provide coloured paper if asked.

Secondly there are a lot of conditions where the need to leave a teaching room urgently should be addressed. If they are not allowing this, serious questions need to be asked.

It really does worry me if they refuse to let you use text cards where you have a communication difficulty. What happens to someone with a stammer? That sounds like a breach on anticipatory provision. You shouldn't need a verified autism diagnosis for that. Can NAS step in here and advise.

The college is failing its obligations under the DDA. Both those constraints could land them in very serious trouble, and if they don't know that they really could be in for a shock. Its not a case of you suing them its potentially a human rights issue.

Having a note taker is problemmatic. It costs money. Usually you pay for it out of funds allocated by your local authority or another sponsor on the grounds of disability. If you aren't getting this money you may have to pay for a note-taker service.

There are problems with regard to note-takers. They often end up acting in loco parentis even with over 18s, well beyond the primary duty of note-taker. And they are often hourly paid, and underpaid staff, so there's a shortage in some institutions.

You may be expected to pay for a better magnifying or viewing device if the one provided doesn't suit your needs, thats a tricky one I suspect.

However the college library service should have a number of aids to disabled - if they don't thats another anticipatory provision they are failing on.

Sounds like a rubbish college. I suppose the NAS moderators wont allow us to name and shame. But it certainly sounds to me like a real bottom of the pond, anaerobic, dead end pseudo-college. Most institutions are upo to speed on anticipatory provision. If this college doesn't understasnd that its asking to be closed down.

So this is something your local counciloor should help you address. Antcipatory provision is a different thing althogether from individual provision. It sounds like something fundamentally wrong with the management of this college. Can NAS help?

It's not just my Autism here. They've refused the following:

- they won't pay for coloured paper and told me to use my benefits. What benefits? Oh yes, the ones taken by social services for care. Coloured paper is far more expensive than white paper

- someone to help me with reading and note taking - I don't need either of these apparently. No, that's why I've had both at various educaion establishments (I had to ask at one; but they were supplied) for the last 4 years.

- I can't walk out if I've got sensory overload; but can if I need the toilet

- I have to communicate verbally if I have sensory overload. I am physically unable to do that. They won't allow me to use cards to say that I'm overloaded and need to remove myself

Their argument regarding the equipment I have:

I have a CCTV (electronic) magnifier. One of the eye conditions I have, causes chronic tiredness and this magnifier doesn't help that. Therefore, I need someone to help me with reading. I have been refused because my equipment should solve this issue.

Part of the argument here is that I don't have Autism and supposedly don't have the needs I claim I do. They have no evidence (ie, a letter from the psychiatrist) backing their claims up.

I'm all for making a vigorous stand when required. And I have done so - often - sometimes successfully. I have, on occasions, managed to influence change. But that is very hard to do withiout a lot of research and a lot of care.

However an organisation has to have a case to answer and a reality you need to recognise is that while individuals get screwed in this country, big money and corporations are protected by vaguaries in law. Unfortunately for us the protection we were offered by the Disability Act and the Autism Act has no meaning if the conditions on organisations are so woolly and ineffectual due to caveats that you cannot pin down any wrongdoing.

Take a look at the initial outcomes from local authorities re "Leading Rewarding and Fulfilling Lives" which is why we have the current "red button" NAS campaign.

The sad fact is an FE or HE institution is only required to make reasonable provision, and the definition of reasonable is woolly and open to legal debate. Since the initial fear about prosecutions and litigation has dissipated, most FE and HE institutions seem prepared to gamble on whether not providing some support is cheaper than any improbable litigation.

I can honestly assure you, you wont feel better after a punch up with an institution's lawyers. The sooner you realise that being an ordinary human counts for little, the better you'll feel.

I really do advise against staging a "freak out". You are the one who could face prosecution.

What might help stranger is getting his local councillor to interpose with the college, assuming his local councillor is up to it, and not just a party political poser.