Politics: Do you guys find it hard to find a reason to vote anymore or is it just me.

Surely in order to 'return' to any faith you would have to have already been practising that faith at some point, and left, presumably because you were unhappy with it? As an atheist I find religion even more divisive than politics, especially those that attempt to impose themselves on us.

They cannot be wrong.

Suggesting so is the iteral definition of "antisemitism".

Don't go there..

Including 0.2% of the global Jewish population?

IrishInManchesterUK said:

we need to return to the one true faith, the Catholic faith

The one true faith?

en.wikipedia.org/.../Catholic_Church_by_country
I notice the catholic religion has between 13 and 17% of the world poplulation

Compare that with the other religions in the world:
en.wikipedia.org/.../List_of_religious_populations
30% muslim, 15% hindu, 16% athiest/agnostic.

Catholicism is in a minority.

What makes it true and all the others false? Are 85% ish of the worlds population all wrong?

Having recently clicked by accident on a political debate in the Commons on YouTube, I’m more convinced than ever that with politics, we are “barking up the wrong tree” and we need to return to the one true faith, the Catholic faith, to which the U.K. needs to return - Gemma O’ Doherty back home in Ireland recently mentioned this on one of her streams and I cannot disagree, living in a socially deprived area of Manchester for over 20 years with extended family in Rural Ireland and even my non-religious friends here who know that I’m a devout and committed Traditional Catholic feel the same way since Covid, where I’ve seen a massive return to the spiritual over politics since Covid - I’ve heard the same talking points among my Muslim friends, as well as seeing a massive increase in the number of Christian and other street preachers in both Manchester and other U.K. cities - I’m not getting any real sense that people post-Covid are even interested nor inclined to vote at all, for any party, as people are simply tired of the current political system which they don’t see as being relevant any longer to them nor providing any real solutions - Sinead O’ Connor’s funeral in Bray Co. Wicklow, covered massively by RTÉ (after she died in London - like Delores O’ Riodan, who was buried in Co. Limerick) had thousands attending, where she was buried as a Muslim in a Catholic graveyard and even Irish TD’s in Dáil Éireann dont get that, despite the fact that culturally, Irish funerals are normally very large and aside from Sinead’s celebrity status 

I totally get where you're coming from. Politics can be frustrating, and it's natural to question its impact on our lives. As a fellow citizen, I've felt the same way at times. But remember, voting is one way to express our voices and influence change. It may not solve everything instantly, but it's a step toward shaping our society. Also, I suggest you post more on[link removed by moderator] You may find more support there.

I would of course be referring to Ireland in particular, especially given Ireland’s history where we Irish held onto our Catholic faith, even through the anti-Catholic persecution by Oliver Cromwell in the 1600’s with the Penal Laws (Cromwell still being a hated name in Ireland to this very day), yet I was also amazed to discover that in English history how the Catholic faith here in England was very strong and still is to the point that some English kings even converted to the Catholic Faith on thier deathbed and privately remained Catholic - as for our own history from the Easter Rising of 1916 and beyond the Treaty of 1921, the Irish Civil War in 1922 and beyond, under Taoiseach Eamon De Valera (who was later President in the 1960’s) and Archbishop John Charles Mc Quaid, where in many parts of the British Empire there was an Irish Catholic Priest or Nun to be found somewhere, including on the African  Missions, so in a way, that was a form of a religious police, as the Irish Free State and later Republic of Ireland after 1949, because of our Constitution Bunreacht Na hEireann maintained a strong Catholic ethos, which started to slip after the 1960’s & 1970’s, except in Rural Ireland - everyone in the Ireland of that time, including An Garda Siochana ((police) and every TD in Dáil Éireann from the Taoiseach down held onto the Catholic faith as being central to our Irish identity 

Is Labour close to perfect? No. Is it better than the Tories? Yes.  Does Starmer need to be cautious?  Yes. Is he being too cautious? I've gone from a solid 'no' on that one to ' It's debatable'. I want the 'left' to stay in the party and present a politically intelligent and sensible case  for more socialism. I have no time for the pseudo- socialists who are quite happy to enable the Tories.

Like it or not but the left's best chance of being more influential is not as a perpetual protest group, but within an elected Labour government. Palestine? The trans issue?  Not on the political radar of the average swing voter needed to win elections. That average, swing voter wants help with 'bread and butter' issues that adversely affect his/her/their  family's life.

Enter DESPEREAUX!!

Hard times make desperate people, and desperation makes easy prey for cynical monsters. 

It’s gonna get a lot worst before times are hard enough to make strong people, so it’s best to get the assurances you can, so that you can ride it out, or at the very least not be the most effected..

firemonkey said:

I think he'll make some changes, as the economy gradually improves. 

I'm curious why you think the economy is going to improve. There are no policies that I see that are not going to keep it as it is or make it worse through huge borrowing overheads on top of the gargantuan borrowing overheads the government already have.

Labour as it was pre-1990s is a spent force as so much of the country is very much in the middle classes now. They responded to this by becoming New Labour which are little more than a re-working of the tory manifesto from a few decades ago - with all the problems that go with it.

PR and mandatory voting are probably the only way to get a government that works for the voters but that is not in the interests of the Tories or labour so I don't see it ever going to happen as we, as a country, seem to have embraced the binary choices of red and blue.

I think he'll make some changes, as the economy gradually improves.  Will it be enough to earn Labour a second term in office? That's the $64K question. Historically the electorate has demanded far more from Labour  than it has ever demanded from the Tories. The Tories can get away  with mediocrity  markedly more than Labour.

It's possible I missed things, but from what I recall his plans for the NHS are continued austerity and more privatisation. 

I would be thrilled to be proven wrong. But he's said nothing to make me believe he'll be more than a more competent version of the same thing. And if he spends the next 4 years saying that he can't make big positive changes because he's still repairing the damage from the tories, do you think people will be desperate for 4 more years when the next tory leader is promising them the land of milk and honey? 

It's completely wrong to say that Starmer has no interest in undoing the damage. It's the kind of thing the Corbynite cranks on Twitter come out with. There's what needs to be done to win an election, and what can be done after an election is won. Much of the 1st term,presuming the election is won, will involve fixing the economic damage  that was  caused by Tory incompetence.  A second term in office will depend on how well the electorate think they've done that job.

The problem is that if they gain power without pushing for PR, they'll say they have no mandate to overhaul the system. And the fear that any move he makes is a potential tactical advantage for the tories means he currently stands for nothing aside from not being a Conservative. He's entirely banking on winning by the unpopularity of the other side rather than giving a real positive vision people can believe in. And that will almost certainly work this time, but we need actual change to try to undo the damage of the last decade and Starmer has no interest in that. 

In complete agreement with what you say Firemonkey. 

I don't think the country can afford another term under Tory rule. 

I'm a Labour party member. I want the self serving,intellectually and morally bankrupt, Tories out of power asap. Quite a few party members are calling for Labour  to make PR part of their manifesto. That would be a tactical mistake. The Tories, and the pro Tory media , would  ram home time and time again ' Labour too weak to govern on their own' . I'd rather they adopted PR from a position of strength, after winning the next election.

I appreciate that you have strong religious beliefs, but I believe that if the UK had such a thing as dedicated religious police, there would be absolute anarchy. As things stand, the UK caters for people belonging to different religious faiths. Therefore, it could prove difficult for the policymakers to agree upon what their policies should be, and enforce laws. I don't believe it would benefit anyone if the UK became a country that based its laws on the beliefs of one specific religion, as it would be unfair to people with different religious beliefs.

This is just my opinion though.

It’s ironic that in proudly holding an Irish passport as an Irish gay man in the 21 years that I’ve lived in the U.K., I lost Irish voting rights after living 5 years outside Ireland, but gained U.K. voting rights on an Irish passport after only a year living in the U.K. - in recent years, the Irish government makes it ever more difficult for me to renew my Irish passport even though I still have extended family living in Rural Ireland and this happened long before Brexit was even thought of - as long as I’ve lived in the U.K. Ireland will always be my real home, as my Irish identity is very important to me, as much as my Catholic faith is