Unsure of who is a troll and who isn't?

There are probably those who think I'm a troll. And I've met a few online entities on here that perhaps have a few troll-like tendencies. But ......  Sure, I've never really had much idea who or who isn't a troll myself. I can only say, that just like most people you have to live and learn as you go along. In which case, I probably have a bit more idea than when I was younger. But it's a bit like reds under the bed and rabid right-wingers. They probably want us to believe they're trolls, in much the same way that Superman wants to be viewed as superhuman. But I don't think we really gain anything by buying into their crappy mythology. And our less than lovely political parties all seem to be in a complete tiswas about how much trollism is acceptable to the fickle electorate. Populism and trollism seem to have gone hand-in-hand since Michael put his Foot in it by wearing a supposed Burberry 'donkey jacket' to Remembrance Day at the Cenotaph. I wonder a bit if the term 'android' isn't better. We've had a succession of androids as PM since then. ;-) Androids hired cynically by our crappy newspaper barons. Murdoch and Maxwell are/were undoubtedly trolls. :-)

I actually admire Foot a lot.  I have an excellent biography of him on my shelf.  I also have one volume of his own writing on Aneurin Bevan.  I did wonder if you were trying to troll me by mentioning it but how would you possibly know what i have on my shelves? :)

I might be a tad clairvoyant, but it doesn't ever put any real money in my bank account. Michael was a person worthy of some respect. Something a punk like Murdoch would never be able to figure out. I daresay I might occasionally be termed an amateur bantamweight troll, however. ;-)

Trump definitely qualifies but i think Plastic would oppose this description of him.  So even that's contentious. In politics everything is contentious so  it would be very hard to follow with only a rudimentary knowledge of the subject. 

Well i'm opposed to both the EU and privatization. That's my good faith position. I didn't vote Conservative because they are in opposed to the former but in favour of the latter.  Would have voted leave again in a second referendum.  Wish Cameron had never held the first just because i'm sick of the issue. haha

I don't trust any of them - it takes measurement of their actions to make decisions.

Dare I ask, combining this thread of conversation with the original question posted by the OP. Who is the actual troll in current politics? Genuine question, I don’t follow politics.

I'm very anti-EU - but our politicians love it for their gravy train.

Yes but you seemed to be blaming the EU for privatization.  Which makes me think you were opposed to it?   Are you in favour of it now?

There's nothing wrong with capitalism - it's been the natural way all over the world for thousands of years - the problem is when governments stuck their greedy paws in and skew the market - that's when it all goes wrong.      And I'd disagree with you about our politicians making decisions - they've basically done nothing over the last 30 years except blatant cronyism giving grossly overpaid jobs and contracts to their mates.     Democracy in this country is a pantomime - the Brexit vote proved that with 'Call me Dave's' assertion of immediately leading us out of the EU if we voted that way - even though all his polls and project fear made him certain of a stay vote.

You know who else was an advocate of Privatization and deregulation? Friedrich Hayek who wrote the Road To Serfdom.  The post 1979 Tories are in thrall to markets and capital and continue to be so. If you're expecting patrician centrism from them you may have a bit of a wait.   I think they may turn the UK into a even more Hobbesian lawless place.  Leading Tories are on record as admiring Singapore for example.  I'm not a big fan of the EU and it's institutions but you can't put everything that's happened since our membership down to them.  Our own politicians have taken decisions too.

My projects? You make me sound like a functional human being! haha

No projects here.  I'm probably further down the spectrum than i appear.

I can prattle on for days about politics though. To my admittedly small audience.  Was an activist when younger but it's just too stressful for me to continue with that.  The entire outside world has too many stressors and hurtful experiences for me to abide. So here i am a recluse.  Also very lonely.

Senor said:

This is their big opportunity to do something constructive for a change.

I totally agree - Boris *could* be great - if he takes the right path of 'Make Britain Great Again'.    The EU is a bloated, undemocratic failure - and it's going to financially ruin all the member states as it gets even more corrupt.      It's plan of importing another 139M people from the worst parts of the world 'to dilute opposition to the EU' will end very badly - but their idea is to 'rebuild from the ashes' of the collapsed states.   

The USA is fighting for its life - the Dems are now The Mob (look at links to Al Capone via Saul Alinsky and Hilary) and Trump/Republicans are effectively representing the businesses that are shaken down by the Mob.   You might not like Trump, but the Dems intend to flood the country with illegals  - especially in swing states - to make it a one-party state forever - which will then implode.

Look at California and New York - only 20 years ago were relatively safe and clean - but I wouldn't go there now thanks to the Dems.

California is banning paper cups in restaurants as a priority - but flushing millions of used needles into the sea every day.   Almost every roadside verge now has homeless people living on it.    You will be fined if your dog messes on the pavement - but it's ok for people so dump in supermarket aisles.  

Those states are being driven into the ground for the sake of Democrat votes.

No universal panacea here towards acquiring 'better' obsessions. Just the very general idea that we are always better off self-making the means of our own survival; even though our creativity may not look that efficient and beautiful by other people's fashion-conscious standards. They can shove off, anyway! I suppose that would make me some sort of anarchist by party political standards; but then they would say that, wouldn't they? I'm sure you already have plenty of your own obsessions to work on. But there are others out there who will be prepared to co-operate with your projects; just don't expect their involvement to last for ever. I am very alone really, but I'm so used to it that I try not to spend too much time trying to be a lying 'populist' git just to look good with others.

The big issue here is can the new government get Brexit done in a manner that will not burn all our boats. I'm not yet convinced that Brexit is such a wonderful idea, given that it will inevitably involve sucking up to Trump's failed state. (But I have no options open to do anything about it, so yet again I will just have to sit this government out without any indication that things might eventually take a turn for the better.) So the government now has carte blanche to do its best or its worst. This is their big opportunity to do something constructive for a change. But it was always clear that their intention was to keep lying to the electorate, in the naive hope that no one would ever notice their Cummings-inspired craziness. I doubt they are capable of putting the great back into anything. The empire is long gone, and it was a horrible monstrosity anyway. It is doubtful that we will remain in the UK much longer too. The governing party are now just as ensnared in crass ideology as Labour.

The person on the street might well have very little idea about his/her own long-running descent into serfdom, but I see plenty of evidence that they know they are still continually being lied to on this issue (and many others). For English voters, there was never any real choice involved. I still haven't figured out what the hell Corbyn was trying to do, so it was inevitable really that the Workingtons felt soiled by their extremely poor set of options.

In some ways I'm actually quite glad that as a long-term expat I have been disenfranchised; as I never felt at any point  during the campaign that there was any current party I would be happy to vote for.

I also don't fully buy your argument about global-warming as a scam, as I can see numerous examples of environmental degradation here, every day of the week. But take note that the 'inconvenient truth' came to us from a Democrat; another failed state antagonist.

There's loads of reasons for this.    

It was recognised the the British people would be most resistant to the EU project so we've been systematically lied to since the start - while our politicians (of all types) have done everything possible to destroy all that is British.

I believe Thatcher was an EU lapdog - it was the early years of the 'European Project' and under its rules, all nationalised businesses were to be sold off to each other countries so no country could be independent from its neighbours.    Maggie did as instructed - but no-one else did.   Our industries were decimated and Blair finished it all off with the installation of all the 'ism and 'ist laws to quell dissent and giving away our gold and stealing all the pension funds.

The man on the street is on the 'Journey to Serfdom' - but most haven't realised yet.

It's already a disaster. :

Unfortunately. the vast majority of us have never really seen any improvement since the 70s. The decline has continued unabated ever since.

I'd love to chat you you about all this - but the answers are complicated and interrelated and too wordy to put on here.   In brief:

Sweden is a good example - they operated for many years on the balance of very high taxes but high social cohesion and good safety-nets - it worked like one huge family with nobody taking more than their fair share.   Their static population meant it was finely balanced.

Unfortunately, their recent 'population imports' have increased the population by 30% and all they do is take and not contribute.    Their financial system now cannot afford to heat old-people's homes - ministers suggest lots of cardigans.      There is growing resentment to the people known as 'outsiders' (best translation of the Swedish word) so things are going to dramatically change there in the next few elections.

Here, the councils outsourced social care - often to companies set up by friends and family of council members - so they pay crazy amounts to the managers of these companies - but they employ the cheapest possible staff who are incapable of doing their job.   Huge profits & back-handers make it continue - and nobody from the council ever inspect so it continues.

Lincolnshire is huge and has loads of roads and verges and buildings to maintain - and not enough people to pay for it all - something has to give.     My brother lives there - he likes it - very rural - almost frontier land.

That's not the cut that would hurt the most people. That would be cutting the social care budget.  That's the very last thing that a council will cut. Hence the streetlight cut.  Still my friend ( A disabled woman under 45) had to wait years to get the help she needed. She also has the cheek to oppose the Conservative Party. Just WHAT is the poor woman thinking.

You see that Panorama showing the violent mistreatment of Autistic people in care? What did you make of that?

The total population of Lincolnshire is around 1 million people all told. Did you mean population density?  What has population density got to do with total tax take?  Or Income as you frame it?

"No money left"  That old chesnut.  Well if you look at the way other countries are run they have way more money to invest in human beings.   The history of Scandinavia for example.  Why can't we run our country in that manner?  The answer comes back to the British and their love affair with the Conservative Party i'm afraid. Low taxes , low spending and an angry and vulnerable populace.  Not to mention the lost and wasted human capital.  Did you know that 85 percent of Autistic people do not even live independently?  Think of what they will never be able to contribute to British Society!

Whenever councils make cuts, they ALWAYS choose the one that will hurt the most people so they can blame someone else.

Lincolnshire is the least-populated county in the UK so they have the most difficulty balancing income against liabilities - and as council salaries and pension liabilities have risen so much in the last 20 years, there's no money left to do anything - and it's only going to get worse.

Cut's in public expenditure from central government?  In Lincolnshire we don't even run the streetlights at night anymore.  Local government expenditure is decided centrally ever since Thatcher got spooked by the advent of needs budgets. Set by Liverpool and Lambeth  Labour councils in the 80's. Councils do not operate in a political vaccum.  I'm afraid it's obvious to me that cuts are to blame for the reduction in Library hours.  I can ask the people who work there for a starters.  But if you were to blame cuts you would no longer be able to sustain your belief in a small state or the Conservative Party. So you'll blame anything else.   It's all a conspiracy by the Librarians union or some such.

It's actually the Victorian Capitalist Philanthropists who started most of the social services we see today -  art galleries, parks etc.    The local councils just took them over and, recently, see them as valuable plots of land to be sold to developers.    This is why they reduce their opening hours until no-one uses them so they have the excuse to close them - or sell them off to a business to do the same thing without the blow-back - "not our fault - blame the nasty capitalists" they all shout.

It's actually the Victorian Capitalist Philanthropists who started most of the social services we see today -  art galleries, parks etc.    The local councils just took them over and, recently, see them as valuable plots of land to be sold to developers.    This is why they reduce their opening hours until no-one uses them so they have the excuse to close them - or sell them off to a business to do the same thing without the blow-back - "not our fault - blame the nasty capitalists" they all shout.

I'd love to chat you you about all this - but the answers are complicated and interrelated and too wordy to put on here.   In brief:

Sweden is a good example - they operated for many years on the balance of very high taxes but high social cohesion and good safety-nets - it worked like one huge family with nobody taking more than their fair share.   Their static population meant it was finely balanced.

Unfortunately, their recent 'population imports' have increased the population by 30% and all they do is take and not contribute.    Their financial system now cannot afford to heat old-people's homes - ministers suggest lots of cardigans.      There is growing resentment to the people known as 'outsiders' (best translation of the Swedish word) so things are going to dramatically change there in the next few elections.

Here, the councils outsourced social care - often to companies set up by friends and family of council members - so they pay crazy amounts to the managers of these companies - but they employ the cheapest possible staff who are incapable of doing their job.   Huge profits & back-handers make it continue - and nobody from the council ever inspect so it continues.

Lincolnshire is huge and has loads of roads and verges and buildings to maintain - and not enough people to pay for it all - something has to give.     My brother lives there - he likes it - very rural - almost frontier land.

That's not the cut that would hurt the most people. That would be cutting the social care budget.  That's the very last thing that a council will cut. Hence the streetlight cut.  Still my friend ( A disabled woman under 45) had to wait years to get the help she needed. She also has the cheek to oppose the Conservative Party. Just WHAT is the poor woman thinking.

You see that Panorama showing the violent mistreatment of Autistic people in care? What did you make of that?

The total population of Lincolnshire is around 1 million people all told. Did you mean population density?  What has population density got to do with total tax take?  Or Income as you frame it?

"No money left"  That old chesnut.  Well if you look at the way other countries are run they have way more money to invest in human beings.   The history of Scandinavia for example.  Why can't we run our country in that manner?  The answer comes back to the British and their love affair with the Conservative Party i'm afraid. Low taxes , low spending and an angry and vulnerable populace.  Not to mention the lost and wasted human capital.  Did you know that 85 percent of Autistic people do not even live independently?  Think of what they will never be able to contribute to British Society!

Whenever councils make cuts, they ALWAYS choose the one that will hurt the most people so they can blame someone else.

Lincolnshire is the least-populated county in the UK so they have the most difficulty balancing income against liabilities - and as council salaries and pension liabilities have risen so much in the last 20 years, there's no money left to do anything - and it's only going to get worse.

Cut's in public expenditure from central government?  In Lincolnshire we don't even run the streetlights at night anymore.  Local government expenditure is decided centrally ever since Thatcher got spooked by the advent of needs budgets. Set by Liverpool and Lambeth  Labour councils in the 80's. Councils do not operate in a political vaccum.  I'm afraid it's obvious to me that cuts are to blame for the reduction in Library hours.  I can ask the people who work there for a starters.  But if you were to blame cuts you would no longer be able to sustain your belief in a small state or the Conservative Party. So you'll blame anything else.   It's all a conspiracy by the Librarians union or some such.