Social services removing children from parents with ASD

thanks Michelle very very useful information ive been relying on the BASW 

but can have your child removed for showing distressed behaviours that most sw do not have the training to understand but have other training which will give them a very different aspect/perception on a situation whether it is a reality is always debated. (professional gaslighting). an asd individual having a tantrum and a meltdown I dont think many sw could tell the difference never mind going from distressed aggressive behaviour to meltdown volatile behaviour that they could need restraining  caused by them simply not listening or communicating in an a appropriate manner . or thinking someones agitated and in fact about to have a meltdown that is going to endanger everyone due to poor emotional regulation again if correct supports not given at the right time a flare ups situation can be made considerately worse do sw safeguard or put children at risk 

Social workers are independently regulated by Social Work England. Anyone can raise their concerns about an individual's practice and they would then be investigated by a panel of people independent to their employer. If their practice is below the required standard then they are put under suspension and cannot practice as a "Social worker", which is a legally protected title. Their employer would have no choice but to take action. 

They could also complain to Ofsted or CQC (as applicable) if it was a wider issue about the service rather than an individual worker. 

Again, another good reason  to have an advocate as they'd have no reason to keep this information from anyone. That being said, I've always been happy to share complaints procedures with people as usually I either accept my error and clients accept my apology, or the issue is a wider systematic issue and me apologising for it won't change it and a complaint is better. Either way,, everyone has a right to complain. You also have a right to ask for a different worker if you need to. 

I'm glad I'm not a social worker any more. Most agencies are offering £30+ an hour now because of shortages but it really isn't worth the stress of explaining all of this to people that don't want to believe we are doing our best with what we have available to us. 

got an appointment tomorrow at 3 thanks @iamyeke

100% Peter rather protect professionals who are discriminative and put the profession into dispute again not upholding policies and procedures LA sw need to realise an asd individual who enters hyperfocus around there policies and procedures may actually know more  than the professionals themselves who are incapable or unwilling to accept further training or development it is then put on to parent that they are not engaging do not understand concerns 

There is an old proverb. 'Each bureaucrat is protected by the one above him.' The 'one bad apple' argument only holds water where officials are not unduly reluctant to sack incompetent or malicious social workers.

Whether you call it equality or equity the equality act is definately pushing towards the principal that disabled people should have 'fairness in all senarios'. For instance it says "A person (A) discriminates against another (B) if, because of a protected characteristic, A treats B less favourably than A treats or would treat others. ... If the protected characteristic is disability, and B is not a disabled person, A does not discriminate against B only because A treats or would treat disabled persons more favourably than A treats B."

The reasonable adjustments law provides for situations where it is required for entities to treat disabled people differently so as to compensate for their disadvantages. The discrimination arising from disability law provides for situations where it is illegal to treat a disabled person badly even when you'd treat an abled body person the same way (eg sacking a person with touretts for swearing).

Also to further add, i just went on Sir Jon Ashworths website and he has this on his contact page;

This could be a good way to get in contact.

A tip for MPs as I work as a liason with them following the death of Sir David Amess, make sure you are polite in your messages, do not insult them or show discreditable conduct, be open, honest and kind, it will get a response, if you send anything rude, the MP will refuse to see you or listen to you, there is a case we have a guy who is not allowed to speak to his MP because he keeps being extremely rude and disorderly, so showing manners will likely earn appointments or you could attend a local surgery if he has them

already have hard to contact John ashworth to get listened to 

If the issue is extremely widespread, as i have not experienced it, I would consider approaching your local MP and bringing the facts to the table and your experiences, that way they can lobby it in parliament (if they will)

I believe you, I have experienced being discriminated against by social services, refusal to make reasonable adjustments, purposefully setting me up to fail. Assessing me as a neurotypical parent when I am autistic. There is research out there which exposes how autistic mothers are having their human rights violated by child protection. The problem is unless you have actually experienced how oppressive children's services are towards autistic parents you will struggle to believe that this is a huge problem. There is a stigma within child protection against autistic parents, that we are emotionally cold and unable to prioritiese our children's needs above our own. Research is exposing the stigma but also challenging the stigma because actually Autistic Mothers demonstrate dedication and resilience throughout parenting despite their unique challenges. 

There will always be negative experiences of services. Some doctors make horrific errors or act negligently, it doesn't mean every doctor is doing the same.  I presume you don't judge ever doctor by the standards Harold Shipman set. It's no different for any other profession. 

When I was a social worker I was expected by people to know everything about their health conditions, benefits, community-based services, hospital services, charities, various laws and policies. It is impossible for one person to know everything so yes, errors are made or there are gaps. I'm an autistic social worker and wouldn't expect to be able to know exactly what every other autistic person is experiencing. I can only assess what is in front of me, which again is why it is so important to access advocacy services if you struggle to express yourself. 

well my daughters been placed on a placement order and after advice from legal services clearly stated ive been discriminated against due to my autism sw do not adhere to current policies and procedures 

Hi 1234, there are things in place to prevent discrimination, such as the equality act, of which Autism is considered a disability and is a protected characteristic, of which employers and agencies must make reasonable adjustments for people who have autism, failure to do so is considered discrimination against them.

in a personal opinion, we are equal, i think the term you may be looking for is equity over equality, as equality is everyone having the same rights and opportunities, but equity is fairness in all scenarios and giving people what they need to level the playingfield, for example in schools, extra time in exams.

Hello, 

I work currently in the Police as a Business Admin, but I deal with Domestic Violence Protection Orders and manage their visits, as well as that I am a level 2 qualified door supervisor with the SIA.

an SIA licence should not be a requirement for a social worker, as their role is generally hands off, laying hands on should be only when there is threats to life, limb and property, otherwise there could be a claim against being assaulted, as the training in SIA states "as much force as is reasonable in the circumstances", they do not provide active restraint techniques, they only tell you what to avoid in restraining to prevent serious health issues, also to mention SIA licences are not cheap and require renewal, of which mine costs around £222 last payment i made on my licence.

Citizens arrest falls under S24A of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act - Arrest without a warrant any person - This is a massive grey area in legal defenition, as such should only be done when in threat of life limb and property and the offence is indictable, of which you cannot reasonably expect a SW to understand what law is indictable in every scenario.

Now domestic abuse is horrible, but abuse doesnt mean just bad things, abuse is a wide range of things, it doesnt cover just violence, as Domestic Violence is mainly its own catagory.


I just want to cover this scenario a bit more you stated;

NAS76265 said:

emale under civilians arrest due to threat to his life until police attend sw not trained will class this as domestic abuse not a domestic incident.

Under defenition, the fact the female is a threat to the males life, that does count as Domestic Abuse, irregardless of how many times this has happened, I have seen Domestic Violence Protection Orders granted over a one time fight between couples.

People seem to think Abuse has to be multiple, but it could be one time.

In terms of diagnosis, not to discredit your experience, however in general terms, autism alone is not enough to take a child, it would be the belief that there is a genuine fear for the safety of the child to remain in custody of the parents due to the actions and situation at home, this can even include house cleanliness, enough food to eat and even a toxic situation between parents.

NAS76265 said:

my first question would be should a SW who has no secondary care qualifications or professional experience be making any judgements that are based of stereotypes and stigmas and outside of their areas of expertise.

In relation to the above, as stated by M they should seek counsel if there are things that are not experts in, however they are there to ensure that the family is OK and support is there, if there are serious concerns then they use their authority to take action, the voice of the child is a big part of their work, but also assessments of the family home, the environment and the relationships with the family members.

Now stereotypes of autism do exist but that is due to mainstream knowledge, many people assume autism is the severe end of the spectrum where there are severe development issues, however that is not just for the SW to know, but the orgonisation themselves to facilitate training or place families under caseloads where they have knowledge of Autism as opposed to someone who isnt qualified, but that is an orgonisational process and not a criticism of the social worker, as they say, you can only work with the tools you have at the time.

Advocates are separate to social services, it isn't something that they are able to refuse. You also have a legal right to advocacy services if you have any need which would prevent you from being able to be fully engaged with social services and their assessment processes. 

Advocacy services are run by different agencies around the country so vary area by area. If you need help trying to figure out who your local service is then I'd be happy to try to help. 

Sorry I’m also replying to Michelle aswell as you. I didn’t realise 

You are so right. Our social worker manipulated my partner and didn’t understand his way of thinking. Social workers these days still don’t have the right training when autism is involved. Yes after his diagnoses and meetings with ASD professionals after 26 years of his life being undiagnosed he is slowly but surely understanding himself a lot more and learning each day to cope with himself. He also has ADHD so yes outburst can happen. Just because you say you have ASD doesn’t mean your on the same spectrum as someone else. There’s many spectrums of ASD and each one is different. 

Replying to Sw don’t get involved for people with autism. The post from the lady above stated that when she was pregnant she had anxiety ect and she sought help from a sw then one thing after another lead to her child being removed as she had autism. So yes they do. However in my case my jealous ex boyfriend was ringing police saying things happened at my home when they didn’t and we had witnesses to prove this, number of times the police came out the obv had to get in touch with sw. The social don’t listen to other people they only listen to police reports. We filed complaints as police didn’t take other people’s statements ect.  They only listen to what they’d want to listen to. They cherry pick at everything and take things further then they should instead of helping families which is what we asked for in the beginning. We missed out on nearly 1 year with our baby daughter. All because they couldn’t help and manipulated things. 

what happens when SW refuse advocates and you are left to source one yourself is this appropriate support 

so u have stated that autism is not a reason in itself to have your child removed howeer u are diagnosed with autism due to you rbahiiur/actions so when then faced with a sw who has no professional experience or qualifications and relies on stereotypical views and discriminative opinions much like hitler for example I have been classed by a sw as a black male with mental health...??

SW have refused mdt meetings a blatant refusal of work with wider agencies. a statutory obligation....worng or right... is not the purpose of social services to focus on the child and family and offer correct and appropriate support but u can only have u ever heard anyone talk about the impacts of domestic abuse on a asd relationship 

as u confirm people who think they are a voice for the voiceless parents, friends, doctors say what they thinks appropriate but this is based of what....qualified professional knowledge and training or opinionated discriminative opinions. this is often not what the autistic individuals wants or is required this is also backed up by a lot of research from asd individuals not being listened to.

why do they need their voice strengthened? if professionals were willing to take on board what they were saying and learn from service users and raise unjust policies as statutory obligated there would be no reason for an advocate in many cases but many SW do not see there policies as unjust and dont understand what indirect discrimination is. many SW ask hypothetical questions causing obvious difficulties with individuals with autism who see the world in.a black and white way. for example sw will this could happen ASD person replies like no that could never happen this or this will happen a sw will then make out the asd individual does not understand there concerns when in reality the sw does not understand the asd way of thinking as is then manipulating these anxieties and beliefs ????