I am potentially at huge risk from midday, next Wednesday. If you only had 5 days left to BE, to EXIST, what would you do?
Go on the holiday of a lifetime. Why worry about anything serious if I only have 5 days left? May as well enjoy them as much as I can.
Hope all is ok? Huge risk doesn't sound good!
Why worry about anything serious anyway? What exactly does worry add to the situation? Just curious ~ does it help in a way that if you didn't worry the solutions would never be found? It's just that for me, I found that if I worried about a situation, it didn't change anything and I couldn't find a solution because my head was too full of worries. So I gave it up and don't bother with it anymore.
And why not enjoy every day you have on this planet as we never know which one will be our last?
I find it curious that people would enjoy five days but not the whole of their lives!
Worrying is the most pointless thing in the world. But it is not something that I can just stop. I have tried. It doesn't work. Some people may have more control over their thought processes. I do not. Trust me, if I could stop myself from worrying, I would.
And yes it would be nice if we could enjoy every day on this planet. But I do have to think about things like mortgages and bills and other things which if I knew I only had 5 days to live, I wouldn't care about. I'd just spend all the money I wanted.
I cannot afford to do some of the things I really want to every day of my life. I'd end up bankrupt and homeless. I will do these things at times in my life. But they will be amazing moments. I can't do them every day.
BlueRay said:Why do you have to think about things like mortgages and bills? It seems bizarre. I usually just pay them, or not, and leave it there. I don’t even know how I’d think about them ~ I’m trying now and I don’t know how to do it, nothings happening
Why must you persist with this line of being amazed that people should have things to worry about - like paying bills to keep a roof over their head, BlueRay? I'm sorry, but I find it both unhelpful, patronisng and more than a little insulting. We can't all live in a state of such profound enlightenment that worldly things like paying out to get by don't worry or concern us. What seems bizarre to me is that you can have such an indifferent, almost cavalier attitude to the whole thing. Some of us struggle to ward off debt and to keep above board. We don't all have the 'luxury' of being able to walk out of difficult situations at whim, nor to be quite happy, settled and comfortable living on benefits.
Stress, anxiety and depression as well as autism do not have a switch that one can turn off and on at will. At least I haven't discovered one yet.
Stress, anxiety and depression release chemicals in the brain, they are not simply a mental disease but the effect that having a mental condition has on the physical. And worrying is part of this vicious circle. The way to 'cure' these is not to tell someone to stop worrying, but to remove the cause. And even then it can take a long, long time to bring oneself round.
I have suffered regular bouts of these conditions throughout my adult life. And it is definitely not the case that by saying 'I am not going to worry' everything gets all right. However many times I tell myself that makes not a jot of difference. Yes, I can put diversionary tactics in place such as a long walk, but that is not without its dangers as I have had suicidal thoughts when doing this although obviously not having any 'success' at this yet I am glad to say.
For the past fifteen years I have always managed to get my bills paid, but at a time when my first marriage broke down, it was impossible. My outgoings were more than my incomings, and I was in a very bad state. If someone had told me that it didn't matter, and to buck my ideas up, I would not have been able to guarantee their safety.
I loved being homeless and skint. I didn’t have to pay bills or do housework and I guess I just know that I am the same in any given moment, no matter where I am or what I’m doing, the only difference from one moment to the next, is what I’m thinking. So when I was homeless (one of the times), let’s say I was sat on the side of the road in the day time and I’m smoking a cigarette. I could sit and smoke the cigarette and enjoy it or I could sit and smoke the cigarette and think, I’m homeless. That thought would conjure up an image in my mind. The image would make me feel scared and worried. My mind would go into all kinds of scenarios. It would be terrible, I wouldn’t be happy at all. And I would still be sat there with the same cigarette as I am when I’m not thinking that thought. Nothing would have changed. I would still be without a home and I would still be sat on the wall.
And my mind doesn’t work like that anyway. It wouldn’t think ‘I’m homeless’ because why would it pick that one thing about me, to focus on, and what does that even mean anyway? To me, the earth is my home. A manager of a pub where I used to sleep in the day time sometimes, used to find me in all sorts of places and he would say I would get where water couldn’t! Of course I had no idea what he was talking about at the time, but I understand it now. I did find some great places to sleep etc because I don’t have the same thought patterns as most people. I don’t see how being homeless is any different to living in a mansion. I’m still the same person with the same option of enjoying the moment or not and of changing my situation or not.
I do understand that some people will only be happy if they have certain things in life, such as houses and jobs etc and that if they don’t have them they’ll be unhappy or not quite as happy. I can understand that intellectually but from the way I experience the world, I can’t understand it. I’m just grateful I’m breathing most of the time. Because without breathing, I wouldn’t be here to enjoy any of it.
I’m starting to realise as well, that most people really don’t experience the world like I do and that’s why people don’t understand me. It’s not because I’m autistic, it’s just because I experience the world differently. The autism just makes it more weird! Lol! And makes me to not be able to understand why everyone doesn’t see the world like I do! It just gets better! Lol!
I’m just watching a video though by a guy called gregg bradan and he understands how I think, he’s talking about it. It’s very interesting. I’m going back to it now. He says as well that it depends on if you know who you are.
It's great for you that you were able to be so positive about a situation like this.
I have heard people talk about how being homeless was a turning point in their life but never someone say they enjoyed the experience. This is interesting.
I personally would find it very difficult. Uncertainty and unpredictableness is something I find very difficult and their is not a lot that is certain or predictable about that situation. I have huge sensory issues with the cold and food so being outdoors and struggling for meals would be challenging. Sleep is also challenging for me. I think it would be a struggle without home comforts. And I would be very anxious about people I don't know coming near me. And there is so much more that would be challenging when homeless.
My mind obviously works very differently to yours. I overthink everything. I see so many possible outcomes to a scenario and have no idea which is realistic. These thoughts play like a loop until the situation is over. There is little I can do about it. This is just how I am.
You explain things so well. I can't explain things as clearly as you do. Thank you for this. I have dealt with anxiety for a long time but I have found in recent years it has really increased and is much harder to manage.
It’s ok Tom, I understand what you’re saying. What can I say ~ I’m autistic! I used to and still do understand what other people say through my world view and therefore think they’re just being purposely argumentative or something if they seem to be saying something different to my understanding. In other words, I take things the wrong way. Since I got the diagnosis and realised that this is what I do, I’m working hard on being able to turn it around.
I’m sorry you have taken offence by something I said, we are definitely not coming from the same place because you see struggle as inevitable, whereas I’m in a much worse situation than you financially etc, yet I see struggle as a choice. I could sit here without food and complain about it and struggle or I can sit without food and simply think, I’m without food, it looks like I’m fasting, and then there’s no struggle. If I struggle, i.e. argue with reality, then I feel tense and unhappy and like I’m a victim of my circumstances, or I can see it another way and be at peace and be happy. Either way I’m without food and I’m more likely to get some if I’m feeling at peace and I’m feeling happy than if I’m full of worry and struggle. I would feel defeated before I even started if I felt that way. My mind would really do a number on me.
It seems some people live from their heart and some from their head and it’s difficult for the both sides to understand each other. My special interest is the mind so it does delight me to find out how other people think. There’s no better or worse. I don’t see it like that. To me, life is what it is, or as some have said, life is what we believe it to be. If you think you can you can, and if you think you can’t you won’t, either way you’ll be right. So all of us are right. I’m never saying I’m right and somebody else is wrong. Truth is in each of us. We know it is because we all know right from wrong. Not superficially, on the physical level. But the level where it matters. The heart. Or maybe for some it’s the head and like you said, it’s impossible for some people to access the heart for some reason and impossible for some people to live in the head.
But listening to this Greg guy, it’s also all connected to three cycles that are currently taking place in the world and some people are more susceptible to them, especially people who watch teli etc and engage in ‘normal’ life, which I don’t, so I can see how I’m less effected by those things.
I don’t see myself as living off benefits. I see myself as recovering from a major burnout where I became unable to function by any stretch of the imagination and as I’m coming out of it I’m processing, coming to terms with, accepting and understanding my diagnosis, how it relates to me, how I’m going to create an income in a way that serves me ~ I’m not sitting idle, and yes, thankfully I’m in the UK while I’m going through this and the government are good enough to at least pay my rent and a tiny bit off my debts and the food bank feeds me. I’m working hard because I want to make sure this never happens to me again because I don’t think I’d go through it again. So I know I’m intelligent and that I’ve got skills, I just have to find them, find what I can give then find a way to make it happen. Or rather, I allow it to happen. And why wouldn’t I be happy and grateful that somebody, the government in this case, is paying me money to at least have some level of stability while I get well and back into work. We clearly have a different way of looking at it, that’s all. There’s no right or wrong.
If any of us finds that switch you’re talking about, we’ll be millionaires.
I couldn’t agree more, take out the cause, the offending thought/belief that’s causing the worry etc.
To learn how not to worry takes a lot of hard work. I couldn’t agree more, it’s not possible to simply say, I’m not going to worry, and intact, just by saying that we will worry. If we’re told not to think of a donkey, we straight away think of a donkey. So I agree, we can’t tell the mind not to worry, that’s counter intuitive.
Yes, I’m also glad you never took action on the suicidal thoughts. Diversionary tactics never worked for me either.
I love it when I pay my bills. I always go the other way when I’ve got money. I pay more than I need to and in advance when I can. I always find it makes life much simpler and I don’t have to do the dreadful phone calls every month to the utility places etc. The calls in themselves aren’t dreadful, it’s just that I don’t like phone calls.
I wouldn’t have a clue what they would have meant if they had told me to buck up my ideas. I would have probably laughed, because it sounds funny to me and doesn’t really mean anything. But I can see how you would feel bad if you were judging your situation as bad. I would just think I’ve got no money without putting any judgement or meaning to it but I suppose that’s my literal mind.
sometimes the worry is needed to kick in the adrenaline... not for worries sake but to remind you to be alert
I see. I’ve always found it more effective (for me) to focus on what I do want rather than what I don’t and worry would make me shrink, as it comes with horrible images etc for me so it would make me feel small and scared and I wouldn’t do anything. But if I think about what I want, I feel good and if I feel moved (I rarely do! lol) I’ll move, towards that goal in some way. I’m already hyper alert, I don’t want to be any more alert so maybe that’s why worrying doesn’t work for me. Just leaving the house is like a military operation! Lol! Have I got my scripts? Do I know where I’m going? Are there any roads to cross? Why d’ya think I wear wellies? It’s one less thing to fiddle with. The wellies slip on and off easily. Sometimes there’s so much to think about that I don’t bother! Lol! But I’ll feel good either way. If I worry I feel bad and it can get me in a terrible downward spiral. It’s scary. It doesn’t help me at all.
I wasn’t being positive, I was simply facing reality, the truth, and accepting it as it is instead of arguing or fighting with it.
I don’t do ‘positive thinking’ or ‘being positive’ I just accept things as they are without adding stories, or judgements or meanings. For example, some people might say to themselves in that situation, I’m homeless, this is terrible, this means I’m poor, etc etc ~ they make up stories, make judgements about it, add meaning to it and make themselves feel terrible because they believe the little stories they tell themselves and the judgements they make and the meanings they add to reality instead of simply accepting reality as it is.
And I didn’t see it as an ‘experience’, it was simply my life and that changes every moment so it was simply, oh, this is where I sleep tonight and no matter where I sleep, I’m still sleeping and I’ve always had a knack of getting comfortable no matter where I am. I was still eating, breathing, sleeping, waking etc etc just as I was when I was living in a house, my outer circumstances don’t change that and if I can eat, breath and move around etc, why wouldn’t I enjoy my life? Why wouldn’t I be grateful for what I have ~ eyes that see, legs that walk, a brain that works, love in my heart, hands that work, the ability to be kind, to see beauty, to give love, to help other people, why wouldn’t I be grateful and happy for all those things every single day of my life, no matter what my changing outer circumstances look like because they don’t change those things.
You can live a very certain and predictable life on the streets. You can sleep in the same place at night, go to the same place for food etc, it’s not as different from living in a house as you think. How do you know you would struggle for meals? You’ve already made an assumption and made up a story and believed it without even trying it out. You think it would be a struggle without home comforts but again, you don’t know that, but if you believed it, then sure you would struggle because that’s what you’ve decided you will do, regardless of the facts of reality. There are several people, that I know, living on the streets who are autistic and they do just fine. And don’t worry, you soon get to know people (if you want to) and why would they come up to you if they didn’t know you and you didn’t want them to? Just because people live on the streets, they haven’t lost the use of their senses, they can still tell if somebody doesn’t want them around. You seem to know an awful lot about living on the streets and yet you said you’ve never been in that situation. Don’t believe what people tell you about it. What we say to non street sleepers and to each other, is very different, so if you want to really know what it’s like, you’d have to do it. We’re not going to tell people not living on the streets what it’s really like because they’re judgmental and their support is conditional so we make sure we meet their conditions, from the outside, and we keep the rest to ourselves and each other.
My mind overthinks everything, if I let it, and I mean everything. None of the scenarios you see in your head are realistic, because they’re in your head. But I realised that when my mind was forever going over and over every last little thing and that it made me feel anxious, depressed and scared I decided that the solution was to stop over thinking stuff and I set off on the journey of how I stop it.
I’d say it’s taken me about 19 years (probably more) of hard work, but I managed it. The tendency is still there for my mind to jump in and start its cyclical thinking thing and I have to make sure I have no stress in my life, because that can get in the way and make it almost impossible if not impossible for me to have control of my mind. That’s why I’m so serious about creating my income in a way that serves me because if it doesn’t, I know that I’ll just get caught up in all the loop thinking, over analysing everything, coming up with terrible scenarios etc etc. I’d rather die than do a job that didn’t serve me and that caused me any amount, even the slightest amount of discomfort, even if it paid me hundreds of thousands of pounds a week.
I never accepted ‘this is just who I am’ and I’m glad I never because even scientifically, that’s not true. We have proof now that our genes don’t control us and that the brain isn’t a solid structure. There is something called brain plasticity that shows how we change our brain with the thoughts we think.
I went into a lot of areas, science, physics, astronomy, metaphysics, quantum physics and more, but I’ve enjoyed it and it was worth it because it’s my life, I wanted to be in control of my mind and my life and live in freedom, peace, unconditional love and happiness or I didn’t want to live at all. I decided I would keep going ‘until’ I got there or until it became obvious that I couldn’t achieve that and in that case, I would have been happy to depart this earth.
So no, I definitely do not do ‘postive thinking’ by any stretch of the imagination, I’m just happy and I don’t fill my head with silly stories or tv etc etc. I don’t watch tv and never have, even as a child ~ I don’t recognise faces or follow the story lines, even when they’re simple - I’m still processing the start of the film and it’s almost finished! I don’t watch modern films or listen to music (or very little and it’s usually meditation type music or Indian type devotional music or hymns), I don’t read newspapers or magazines or go online or go on social media, I don’t engage in gossip etc etc so I’m pretty much sheltered from a lot of outside influence. And I don’t subscribe to my life needing to look like others or that just because most people do it this way it’s the right way etc etc. And I have, and always have had, total unconditional love for every person, being, animal etc etc. I do not and have never loved my child more than another child, I wouldn’t even know how to do that. I don’t know how to not love people. I tried, as a way of ‘fitting in’ and being like others and it nearly killed me with depression and suicidal thoughts so I decided I wouldn’t try that again. But I learned a lot and learning is my special interest, so if I’m learning, I’m happy and I’m always learning. But happiness really is our natural state and we only come out of it or become separate from it when we believe our thoughts and the stories and judgements etc that the uncontrolled mind makes.
You obviously do do positive thinking if you say you enjoy every single day of your life. I have never met a single person that has never said they've had a bad day.
I may not know everything about being homeless but I know enough to know it is not a situation I would feel comfortable with and I'm certainly not going to try it out to see it from your point of view. Why should I? There are many people's situations I have not been in and so couldn't completely know but I can't be going and trying every single one of those situations to see what it is like.
I would disagree that happiness is our natural state. Being ok/satisfied is our natural state. Happiness/enjoyment is a level up from that. We actually had training on this in work and they said one of the contributors of depression is people seeing how "happy" others are on social media and feeling their lives weren't as good. In reality we only post on social media if it's something really good. There aren't many people who post their average day.
I'm well aware that all the scenarios in my head are not realistic. But you can't think that because you have managed to change your thought patterns that everyone else can just do the same. We wouldn't have a mental health crisis if they could. I'm not saying everyone else's brains are unchangeable but other people may find it far more difficult and need help in order to do it.
I never do positive thinking. When you take away all the negative thinking, you are simply left with what is, which is love, life, compassion etc etc, all the good stuff.
Exactly! Why would you become homeless just to understand what it’s like? Why do you need to understand it? But you’ll never understand it by reading about it or talking to somebody about it. That would get you, at most, just an interpretation of somebody else’s experience of it and trust me, we do NOT tell anybody, who’s not on the streets, what it’s like, regardless of their motives.
I experience happiness as my natural state. What you’re describing is what I would call having an enjoyable experience with something outside of myself. There is nothing outside of me that can make me happy but I can certainly get a lot of enjoyment and pleasure from things outside of me, but happiness comes from within and nobody and nothing, apart from my own thinking and believing, can take it away.
People are NOT seeing how happy someone is on social media. They’re simply ‘believing’ that they’re seeing other people happy. I could post a photo of me looking all happy and inside I could be suicidal but somebody might look at my photo and believe that I’m happy, but it doesn’t make it true. And when we compare our lives to somebody else’s, we loose, but only 100% of the time. Because how can we compare our insides to somebody’s outside? It makes us feel either less than, more than or just average! Who can feel happy when they believe they are either less than, more than or plain average? And it’s not even true. There is not a person on this planet who is any better than anybody else.
I certainly can think that somebody else can change their thought patterns because I have and it’s backed up by science ~ read up on brain plasticity. They need only find the tools that work for them and I haven’t met a person yet whose mindset has not changed after they have come to me for help. And it’s definitely NOT positive thinking. I simply help them to see, for themselves, the truth in the situation and at that point, there mindset has changed. I have even changed the mindsets of people diagnosed with schizophrenia and multiple personalities with disassociation disorder. We ALL need help with changing our mindsets, and not just autistic people. And for many of us, me included, it takes a lot of practice, focus and commitment.
I think you completely missed my point about the social media. My whole point was that it isn't real but people believe that it is.
At no point have I said people can't change their way of thinking but your making it sound as easy as deciding to change my jumper.
What you are describing as seeing the truth is basically what I would describe as positive thinking. Not seeing the negative so therefore positive. I'm not sure what you call positive thinking.
BlueRay said:You can live a very certain and predictable life on the streets. You can sleep in the same place at night, go to the same place for food etc, it’s not as different from living in a house as you think.
I can't believe that you're still peddling this nonsense. You have had an experience that many, many people who are homeless do not have. Your safety and security is at risk, you don't know from one day to the next whether you are going to eat properly. People freeze to death on the streets. My father became ill living on the streets because he wasn't eating properly and was vulnerable to the elements. You make it sound like a lifestyle choice.
I give up. I thought I was living on a strange planet.
And that was my EXACT point too. We are in TOTAL agreement. My job, is to help people to SEE that truth, so they can STOP BELIEVING that thought that others are happy and they’re not.
You told me that just because I’ve changed my thoughts I can’t say everyone can and I merely answered with, yes I can say that. And if you read any of my posts, you will see that I regularly talk about the amount of hours, days and years I have put into changing my thoughts and at a huge cost. I have never said it’s eaay. But it is, just one decision. That’s the easy part. I decided one day that I was going to change my thinking and god knows how many years later, I did.
There is no ‘positive’ in Truth. Sometimes the truth is very painful indeed and it has no opposite. Positive is simply the opposite of negative, just two sides of the same coin. Truth transcends opinions. It has no opposite and no equal. It stands by itself. You might say, isn’t a non truth the opposite. But no, a non truth is simply the abscence of truth.
Yes, it's from a tabloid newspaper - and you can't always believe what you read in the papers.
This, though, reflects the experience of people I worked with at a homeless shelter a couple of years back.
Homeless people reveal the brutal reality of living on the streets
I literally have no understanding over this conversation. I think I may just have to agree to disagree.
I totally not only share my experience with other homeless people, they taught me how to do it. I was an undiagnosed autistic female who didn’t have a clue what to do at the best of times, so how the hell would I know how to survive and get by on the streets? They taught me, not only how to get by and survive, but how to thrive, so that one day, I would be able to get off the streets. I owe a lot of my wisdom and understanding of life to homeless people. They looked after me and taught me how to live, to the best of my ability.
Life on the streets is tough. I learned to act tough even when I was petrified with fear. I learned not to go to hostels because they weren’t safe for a woman, so I didn’t go. I didn’t have a clue, I thought that was the best place for me. I learned a lot.
I learned how to show love and kindness to other human beings when most other human beings are p*****g on you and kicking the s**t out of you, just because they can and because you’re asleep in a shop door way. They showed me love and friendship at a time in their lives when they were seen by many others as the lowest of the low, and the happiness it brought to them to be able to help me, and the happiness and love I felt by being helped by them, will stay with me forever. They taught me that no matter what your outer circumstances look like, no matter how many people look down on you, you can still share moments of immense gratitude, kindness and love which brings about a feeling of happiness that can’t be described and that nobody can take from you.
Never have I said I did not share these aspects of my experience of being homeless. These are simply the aspects we talk about to anybody who isn’t living on the streets. To each other, we talk about different things. We don’t do that social chit chat small talk thing that people who live in homes do, we talk about things that are real. About what is real for anyone of us at that time.
They showed me love and kindness at its most raw. They gave to me, when it would appear, they had very little, if nothing, to give and with absolutely no expectation of getting anything in return, in fact, it would appear I also had nothing to give. I had no drugs or money to give them or even a word of advice and I couldn’t give them love, because I didn’t even know what that was - until they showed it to me.
They gave me the greatest gift that any human being could ever give to another and in return, we experienced the flow of unconditional love between two hearts, between two human beings,who appeared to be at their lowest and with nothing to give, yet here they/we were, exchanging, experiencing and enjoying the gift of true love. The greatest gift of all.
They taught me about loyalty. Kindness. How to help somebody. How to treat people. How to see the truth of who you are in the face of people kicking you and beating you and leaving you for dead. How to still have the capacity to love and help another person, despite what the masses are doing to you. How to not let go of the love and happiness that’s within you so that one day, if you’ve got nothing else to give, you can give your love and share your happiness and maybe help another soul.
I’ve had guys taking me home. Giving me use of their bathroom while they get their wives or partners to make me something to eat, before I go back on the streets. I have had pimps, teach me, why going on the game is not a good career choice. How the f**k would I know that? I was an undiagnosed autistic who didn’t even know how she’d landed on this f*****g weird planet full of people who I didn’t understand and who clearly didn’t understand me.
When all the rest of the world had let me slip through their fingers, when they couldn’t or wouldn’t and definitely didn’t, help me, these guys did. And yet according to most people, they were the scum of the earth and had nothing to give. There is more to people on the streets than it’s just cold outside. More than, that guy just kicked the *** out of me. It’s over. Why would we talk about it? It’s a good feeling knowing it’s over! They taught me to leave it there. Not because it didn’t happen, but because how many times do you want to experience it? You can go through the emotions of it if you want at a later date, but right now, talking about it and reliving it in your head, ain’t gonna help you.
They taught me not only how to get by and how to survive but how to thrive. To anybody else, they might look like homeless people, but to them, they are so much more than that. That’s why we would love it if somebody would stop for a chat. There’s more to us than getting p****d on. When that’s over, it’s over. We don’t carry it over and repeat it again and again, in our minds, so that we’re experiencing it all over again, we’re simply happy it’s over. What next. But we might tell you about it. Because how else do we tell you what our lives are like from a perspective you understand. You talk about weather. So we tell you how we’re effected by the weather. You want to know where we sleep? We don’t ask you that question. You ask us. You get to hear the parts of our experience that are relative to you, that you can understand.
If we started to talk about it, like I did to you, nobody would believe that we needed your help, so we have to tell it in a way that you’ll understand and so you’ll give us some of the things we need, such as food. The really precious things, such as loving kindness, sharing a laugh, giving and receiving comfort, is usually done amongst ourselves. Although some people do walk up to homeless people and give them a hug now and again and it’s greatly appreciated, even by people like me that hates human touch.
So I’m not saying that none of those things that homeless people talk about, didn’t happen to me, just that, that’s only one small aspect of our lives. Where we sleep is not the most important thing in our lives but it’s what a lot of people focus on. We’ve still got other things going on as well, in our lives, we don’t suddenly stop having a life just because we haven’t got a home we can call our own home.