Social Skills - What do you think?

Don’t you think it would be significantly more pleasant, for all of you, if you told the truth? 

For example, upon meeting somebody new (or anybody really, that you haven’t told), who is going to be sharing the van with you, why wouldn’t you say something along the lines of .......

hey, my name is ......., it’s good to meet you. Before we go any further, there’s something I need to tell you. I’m autistic and one of the areas of my life that is affected by autism is communication. One of the things I really hate is small talk and general chit chat, the type of conversations that most people love and enjoy. I do however, love talking about my special interests, which include ........ and I also love hearing people talk about what they’re passionate about or interested in (if this is true, it’s true for me). I also love silence and I’m aware that some people don’t and that in fact silence makes some people uncomfortable, so if you’re one of those people, I’d be really grateful if you could let me know so we can work something out that suits us both. For example, I don’t listen to the radio or modern music but I do love listening to audio books and meditation/devotional type music. And so on and so forth.

You’d be surprised how quickly people will come to love you for who you are and if you’ve got loads of interests like me, you will soon become the go to guy when they want to know something about something unusual etc. You might even find you share interests with some of them and as a result you enjoy some great conversations. People don’t know who you are so they could never like you, grow closer to you or really get on with you at all in any real sense, because they barely know anything about you. 

I have to say though, I couldn’t do that job if I had to be travelling with other people so often. I can be in a car with somebody sometimes but I couldn’t do it on a regular basis. It’s just not something I could do and if my life depended on it, I’d simply have to die because I couldn’t bare being in such a confined space for so long and so often with other humans. 

People often like the odd one out, when they get to know us, when we give them a chance to know us. 

Where are you experiencing pain in the back, is it too, middle or bottom? 

Not much choice, ignoring them puts me in a position of they shun me, we work as a group. Manual work, one van often two at times three crammed in, long trips out, lunch breaks in a van, every day nearly different sites, different area, also team work is a need, take turns and support the other with work load, not an admin job, pure physical stuff , 

Thank you for reading my daily work and life story, it can be good but often worse, depends entirely on who I am with any given day, right now, my labourer has a knackered knee, means well but as he isn’t as able bodied I have to do more, it works both ways, sadly I am suffering with a chronic back issue, so more and more unable to fulfill my duties, 

thsnk hou. X()x

I worked in a department that was closing - I didn't want redundance at that time so I moved to a different department - which was open plan and entirely male except for the 2 admin girls.

I've never been anywhere like it - it was all politics and incompetence and backside covering.

I'm interested in watching animals and this place was exactly like a chimp enclosure. I watched the alphas fighting, the old silverbacks hoarding territory over each other, the followers, the assassins, the nasty pieces of work etc.etc.

They also used to make group calls (lines from movies) and it was incredible that these were functioning humans.

I studied the newcomers - they were initially 'different' but within 6 months, they had learned & copied all the behaviours to fit in. It was fascintating to watch.

Unfortunately, I didn't fit in. My quiet, reserved competence was out of place. I could sense them feeling uneasy around me as time went on - like they were forced to behave properly without all the macho swearing.

It was like the crew of the Nostromo realising that Ash was different from them. As time went on, because I hadn't become one of the chimps, the divide was uncomfortable.

Luckily, the manager hated me (because I was moved sideways into his department, my salary was significantly higher than his and he didn't have the skills to manage anything - and my competence made him look really dumb) so he made a sloppy move to get rid of me - that cost them.

You can’t understand why your work colleagues tell stories about holidays etc but I can’t understand why you listen to it if you don’t enjoy it? 

Lol thank you plastic,

 Seeing you liken it to being in a zoo made me chuckle. And so here is my work life and how I attempt to interact and what I see as me being very much in the cage,

in many ways a cage, in with the primates but also caged as in stuck, getting by, not liking it but accepting it is achievable and earns me money to exist, I love  my freedom to make decisions, construct many useful things, put  my abilities into it, work hard, have a big sense of achievement.

it is everything that comes with my job that causes issues, the social interaction and team dynamics.  not the actual work, as if I am left alone I am the happiest person in the world, wether it being building a bridge, hand digging a hole, finishing concrete to perfection. Operating an excavator all day, I love my work. Just leave me on my own and give me time and it will be the best job, 

I work as a manual construction worker, we are usually two in a van, me as foreman and a labourer makes the team of two, so always together, long trips driving out to a job, sitting in a van for break time,

it doesn’t take long for it to go very quite, I respond to queries so as to not appear rude, if it were up to me I enjoy silence, I do enjoy chatting if the subject matter is interesting to me, 

It is obvious they struggle whilst being with me because the instant an extra person is needed or arrives at a job we are on they interact a great deal, I see the smiles and body language lift as they some how seem to know just how to interact freely with many laughs and things to witter on about endlessly.

it is a relief for me, but also when there are three or more on one of my jobs it often becomes two against one in some way, 

it can be just teasing or you can see the two really working together in order to cause upset to another, 

Just like being back at school, team dynamics, 

I have worked most of my life in building sites, picked up many ways of integrating socially, it gets me by, I can switch my character completely in an instant if I feel I need to. Being a male dominated arena I choose to exist in , and understanding that testosterone plays a big part of there interactions, 

It really sounds arrogant when I say it is just like looking into a cage, alpha males exist, they constantly look to show their dominance, the subservient types, the ones who look to placate ir be part of the alpha males group, 

The biggest issues arise when two alpha males clash, it can be as simple as one taking a certain piece of equipment out that the other was counting on using, they then have to go off and hire another piece of equipment, 

 I witnessed two such alpha males or Forman go head to head, it started off as “ hey ! I had that booked for my job, you can’t have it”  the other alpha Male then says “ tough it didn’t have your name on it so I am using it, go get one yourself”.

it was a known fact they never got on.

It got heated between them, threats etc, it was when one said “ even if it did have your name on you wouldn’t be able to read it!”  Uh oh,,,,,they chased each other around the yard, slammed doors behind as they ran away into rooms, one giving chase to the other,

it had got totally out of control. Two managers had to restrain the one who was determined to “kill” the other, physical restraint and them saying for Christ sake calm down and stop this, 

It was horrible to witness it. Both big strong men, both supposedly junior managers, responsible for setting an example and leadership skills.

 They should have both been severely disciplined. in my view both sent home and serious action taken, 

 They both received one written warning and it was all soon forgotten about, 

most likely as loosing two experienced long standing team leaders would have caused the company problems. 

 It is a zoo where I work, very dysfunctional,,, chaotic most of the time, pack mentality is a constant,

 I know if I have certain members on my site wether it’s going to be a good harmonious day or one full of issues, 

again team dynamics, 

I have learnt a great deal on how to cope and survive, I don’t fit, I have skills to do my job very well, it tires me out enormously having to keep going. 

Thats my take on picking up and learning social skills, 

Every day is an act a performance, I grow tired and weary playing these games, less able to accept or even realise as society becomes ever more unstable that more people become less and less tolerant and more and more fuelled by feeling hard done by, 

phew,,, should be at the doctors instead of tapping away here, but they text to say cancelled due to gp sickness, rebook another, nice just lost half a days pay thank you, 

 And it wasn’t even my decision to go and see them, just a text to say an appointment had been made for a follow up? That was short notice, only got it last Friday, 

take care everyone, and keep looking listening and gathering information, it can be achievable to interact but only to a given level that will get you by any given situation.

Being totally me doesn’t work, I have tried it, so just react according to any given situation. 

X()x

Yeah, and like you, I don’t mask any more either and rarely, if ever, do I spend time with nt’s now (not even family) unless it serves a purpose for me, for example, if I want to start a new project and need a certain nt or nt’s to get involved, then I’ll approach them, but I don’t socialise with nt’s, unless for example, they’re in my pottery group or something. I can socialise with them and I can do it very well but it has no rewards for me so I don’t do it, but I’m glad I’ve got the skills so I can use them when I need to. And of course, I’m more than happy to have them as clients, because that brings them to my way of seeing the world which is through love, peace, gratitude, understanding and  forgiveness etc etc 

Thank you blueray :-) I’m really glad that I was able to help you.

In my mind masking is pretending to be something that you are not or blaming something else for the way that you are. I did this when I was younger, I blamed my not ‘getting’ stuff on being blonde and built a dizzy blonde persona yet at the same time in parallel I also had the persona of an intellectual and an academic and was able to pass off many of my quirks, such as collecting books as being as a result of that. A bit of a contradiction of personas really, a dizzy blonde highly intelligent academic?!?!? But I felt it worked for me at the time, I hid behind the personas that I had created. I don’t do that any more. I am as I am.

Learning social skills on the other hand is like learning any skill be it a learning a foreign language, learning to make jewellery, learning to do plumbing. It can be learned and applied when needed. It’s amazing for me to be able to learn social skills. Honestly I’m so terrible at them, even my 4 year old daughter gets reciprocal conversation yet it took me reading a book on social skills in my late 30s to realise that if someone asks me a question then I should reciprocate that. So for me it’s this whole new world of finally being able to speak the same language as others. It actually means I don’t have to mask anymore, I don’t need to hide behind anything because now I am learning the skills to be able to interact effectively with other people. So what if I have the odd quirk or don’t get stuff sometimes, people tolerate that much better now that I am being a good person to talk with, reciprocating socially and being a helpful person. 

I do love a good old light bulb moment! When suddenly something makes sense in your head and so many new possibilities start flying around in your head. Your learning social skills was simply you making the best you could of a bad situation, learning what you could from observing NTs despite not understanding them, learning a way to get by in hostile surroundings, kind of like navigating unfamiliar terrain without having a map or a compass or a sat nav. It was really difficult but you got through, you still arrived at your destination. Well done! 

You don’t need to change who you are. Why would you want to? It sounds like you’ve achieved a lot in your life. Just carry on being you. But you can also at the same time use social skills to get by when you need to. 

Yes it would have been so much easier to have been diagnosed and taught all this as a child. I am truly envious of those people lucky enough to have been diagnosed as children and have had all the early intervention in childhood.

Thank you. When you’re a mum you have to act in your children’s best interests. 

Shared mental space? I’m going to have to quiz my NT friends about this, this intrigues me, how is this possible? Kind of a interesting concept though.

But mortgages are for 25 years (or more) - that's for ever for most people. My first house was a large 3-bed for 70k in 1989 - that's over 400k now - 600% growth.

That's providing all stays good, of course - job security maintained, income maintained, house prices maintained, health maintained, financial system maintained, professional skill set which will always be in demand and carry a premium rate of pay.  What's life without some level of risk, though?  Depends how well placed you are to manage the risk, I suppose.

I wonder, too, how many people before the crash thought it was all going to carry on alright.  I mean, mortgages after all.  What could be safer?  Those greedy b******s knew what was happening, but they carried on anyway.  Because they knew the financial system would never be allowed to fail.  They knew they'd be bailed out.

And the likes of Michael Burry and his investors made fat sums of money out of busting the big banks.  And people lost homes and jobs.

Personally, I'm less optimistic about where things are heading. 

As with Brexit, I guess... everyone's got an opinion, but nobody really knows...

option 1 - buy house at, say 3-bed semi 300k - pay mortgage - live in house, own it after 25 years

option 2 - buy bigger house, say 4 bed detached - pay interest only for 25 years, sell up, pay off mortgage and buy 3-bed semi with profit.

same end result - but in one route you lived in a big house for 25 years.

'Run out of steam' was how you put it.

£20k salary.  That would be nice.  Never got close in 40-odd years of work - not even in relative terms.  I guess it depends on what you do.  I remember when I was a recruiter for Microsoft Dynamics, I'd get guys in their 20s turning their noses up at £35k salaries.  Probably quite understandably, if they've done the work and got the skills.  IBM were regularly recruiting young people for in excess of 100k Euros p.a.  Again - good for them if they've studied and worked hard, and have got the knowledge and skills.  If that's what the market says they're worth, then they've gone into the right field.

It does depend, of course, on the field you go into.  The senior Behaviour Manager at the charity I work for is university-trained.  She has a hugely responsible job.  She could earn more in the private sector, probably, but she wants to work in the charity sector.  She's on around £28k, after 14 years working her way up.

Interest-only mortgage would be great - as long as, at the end of the period, the property is worth more than when you bought it, and your repayment vehicle performs well.  And who knows?

Consumerism bounces off me too - if i can't afford what I want then i don't need it badly enough.

I think it's probably based on what people think they should be able to afford, or be entitled to.  Young people especially are bombarded with adverts for things that they really (so the advertisers want them to believe) can't live without.  They see their friends with these things, so they must have them too.  It's how the whole system works - drag them onto that treadmill, get them spending money they often don't have.  A lot of young people I know live far beyond their means - earning what I earn, but feeling the need (quite naturally) to buy fashionable clothes, go out with friends, have gadgets.  Keep up, in other words.  It costs money to maintain that kind of lifestyle.  It's never particularly bothered me, either - as long as I don't get into debt.  I worry about not having money at all - about the day arising when something expensive comes up and I don't have anything to cover it.  I'll find a way around it because I'll have no choice.  At the same time, though, I've never been pulled into that buy buy buy system.  It's all just stuff.  It's meaningless.

The money first time buyers can generate is always compared to average property prices (3-bed semis), not the first houses or flats that they will be buying which are much cheaper. They could always get a fixer-upper but that requires skill & effort and they lack one or both.

150k is only £300 per month, 100% mortgage, interest only.

Bank of mum and dad is being tapped out - most kids go to uni these days under the illusion that they'll never pay the 50k back - but it's growing at 6% so if they don't pay a penny back, it's up to 300k by the time they're 51.

Do they seriously think that they'll never get above 20k salary in their lifetime?

Why will it run out of steam with somewhere between 300k and 1m arrivals every year? They all need to be housed.

I see how Thatcher's 'back to Victorian Values' quote really meant multi-generation housing and only one person working for a pittance.

Relative poverty?  That's what I told I'm in - with a net income of £12k per annum, little savings, no property.  I don't feel impoverished - but in the sense of the metrics they use, and judged against average living standards (whatever they are) I'm assessed as being in financial poverty.

My biggest fear is debt, having been brought up under the shadow of it.  I hope I'll always manage.  But yes... I fear having no money.  I suppose it's different if you have a nice little sum to fall back on if the fat hits the shin.  I've never been in that position, so I tread a fine line.  If my health gives out, I'll have no choice but to rely on state benefits.

Well, to be fair... not many iPhones, trainers and cars cost hundreds of thousands of pounds - but I take the general point you're making.

Future stability in property?  Not according to some of the personal bankruptcies I used to handle.

Where does it mention anything about first-time buyers buying mid-priced property?  Even a one-bedroomed flat around here is £150k.  No good for a couple planning to have a family, of course.  Property prices are crazy - unless you live in a poorer, or less sought-after area.  The sooner it all runs out of steam, as you say, the better.

I guess there's always the bank of mum and dad, of course.

Thanks everyone for replies. There's too many different threads in this conversation to try and reply to each separately now. I love how at least one of the threads has gone off on a little tangent.

You've all given me a useful answer with your own little take on the situation and I love this. I can now put your different answers together to do the right thing for me. 

At some point when I have enough confidence. I would like to put this question to my NT friends. As I'm genuinely intrigued what their answers would be.

I've come to the conclusion that it's got to be a bit of give and take. Sometimes I need to put a bit of effort in and sometimes people are just gonna have to put up with me being me.

Martian Tom: You said something that particularly interested me about 99% of people doing something a certain way and you being the 1% doing it a different way. I heard a story once, it was American but it always stuck with me for some reason and you made me think of it.

Someone asks their mum why she cuts off the end of the meat loaf and her mum says because that's how my mum used to do it. So she asks her grandma and her grandma says because that's how my mum used to do it. So she asks her great grandma and she says because the pan was too small.

Just because 99% of people do something a certain way doesn't mean there is any logic to it and sometimes we need that 1% to say hang on there is a much better way. I'm also a firm believer that different methods work for different people and that's ok too.

Ended with my own little tangent then but thanks again for everyone's input.

Ba-Boom-tish.