Work Program.

@Sharon68: Apply for ESA for your son before DLA - this is for two reasons:

Firstly DLA is a top-up benefit - it is not enough to live on by itself.

Secondly DLA is much easier to get once you're on ESA.

Thanks Manja,

That's really helpful. My son has  had a bad experience with the job centre, whilst on JSA and they knew he was being tested for aspergers/ASD. We were waiting for the results, which we now have. He knew he had to apply for whatever jobs his advisor gave him (he had no problem with this) but his anxieties kicked in big time when they said he had to go on this networking day at the local college. When he got the leaflet he came straight home and laid in bed all day. He said " I can't go on this mum, I feel sick." He hates anything to do with rooms full of strange people. He hardly goes out anyway and just going to the job centre to sign makes him panic. Anyway he never went, then he was so scared to go back to the JC (to be treated like poo with everybody listening) that he refused to go back there. Needless to say he has been signed off and receives no benefits at all now. We got the diagnosis after and I'm considering re  applying. I was hoping there was something other than JSA for him so he didn't have to go on days like this. I know I can claim DLA. I'm in the process of filling in the form. I didn't know he could apply on line tho. Do you think I should phone DWP first? May be then they will make allowences.

Bloodheart said:

Does anyone know what our rights are while within the Work Program (and larger benefits system such as Job Seekers Allowence)? 

I've had multiple problems with the Job Centre and New Deal - general prejudice and ignorance from advisors, being told I have to phone to appy for benefits (I can't use a telephone) and refused any help unless I 'get over it', being told I'm mentally incapable, verbally abused, forced off JSA and onto ESA, and being forced into work placements I was either unable to fulfill or that put me at serious risk. All that is on top of the other problems unemployed people have with the job centre. Now I've just started on the Work Program and I'm terrified of what's going to happen. 

For example what do I do if they try to make me apply for jobs I'm unable to do due to autism? They mentioned classes involving role play or social speaking which I simply cannot do, what happens if they claim this is my being unwilling to participate in mandatory classes? They seem to make no allowences for disabled clients, so I'm worried they'll threaten to stop benefits if I'm unable to do something. 

No one has ever been able to tell me what the job centre can or cannot make me do, what to do if they threaten to remove my benefits, or whether I can refuse to deal with staff who are openly prejudice towards me. What are my rights? 

Health and parlimentary ombudsmen make a complaint via email- they will find against job centre.

 http://www.ombudsman.org.uk/

Yes, good luck. I hope things go well for you. People with Aspergers are often very conscientious. Speaking for myself, I love routine, order and structure. I volunteer most days and am very rarely off, unless my anxiety levels are too high, which can and does happen. But I am never off for any other reason. I love having things to do. I am very curious. But I also need to be in control, and I get very defensive and angry if I am forced to do something that is not right. The problem is that ESA is very black and white: you either can work or you cannot. But life is not as simple as this. I want to work, but need specialist support which the JobCentre cannot provide. Currently I receive support from a specialist employment charity for people with mental health needs and Aspergers. We go one step at a time and I am under no compulsion, and yet I am making progress because I AM IN CONTROL.

So sorry you have had such a tough time.  My son has been referred to the Shaw Trust by his DEA - a 6 month programme, who are giving him considerable one to one support in his job hunt, and are not trying to force him into anything - he has very specific skills like many high-functioning Austistics, and doesn't want to/can't do anything else.  So far they all seem to be respecting this (we are early days, so lets see how we go further down the line!). Have you been offered any such support from partner agencies? Is there no-one who can help you, a parent, a mentor, friend who understands your needs and can help fight your corner? Have you seen a doctor/GP practice nurse recently for annual check up, as you can ask them to refer you for specialist assistance, as this is all obviously affecting your health and mental well-being. Please try to get someone on side to help you as it is too much of a fight to take on on your own! Wishing you every luck.

Put in a complaint and remind them of their duties under the Equalities Act, which is that they must make reasonable adjustments and they cna't force you to apply for jobs you can't do.

Scorpion0x17 said:

ESA, or Employment Support Allowance, whilst it is the replacement for Incapacity Benefit, doesn't work in exactly the same way as Incapacity Benefit worked.

Basically, it was all part of the previous government's drive to get more disabled people into work, and is meant for anyone with a disability, whether they wish to work or not.

Now, getting through the assesment part, as you found first time round, can be difficult - I had to appeal, though I was claiming on the grounds of my Crohn's disease,a dn before I'd had a diagnosis of Asperger's, though I was also at the point with that where I knew there was 'something' else, just not what.

Anyway, at the appeal it's not like the assesment, you get a chance to actually explain what difficulties you have, and it's not just box-ticking exercise like the assement is.

I also believe that the assessments have been improved, or so they say, and with the Autism Strategy now being law, they should take that into account.

OK, once you get through the assesment (and possible appeal) phase, you'll be put into one of two groups - I can't remember the official names for them, but they're essentially the 'employment' group, and the 'non-employment' group - the latter is for people they consider unfit for work (and you basically have to be dead, or nearly dead, to get into that group!) and the former is for everyone else, and you'll be given the opportunity to receive help in finding suitable work.

There's much less pressure put on you, and they're much more helpful.

Thank you, that's a lot clearer.

I think it is worth my at least attempting to apply for ESA. 

It's been confirmed that the Work Program expect me to apply for over three times as many jobs (regardless of whether the jobs are suitable or not) and they're being stricter in how I job search, they've already shown ignorance towards autism by insisting that I make eye contact, and they're being very clear that certain things are MANDATORY regardless of my disability. I KNOW that they're going to make me lose my benefits and/or I'm going to have another big meltdown which will force me deeper into regression so make it even harder for me to find work. I can't cope with this. 

Sandra - mod said:

Hello everyone,

I just wanted to post a link to the NAS Welfare Rights Service. If anyone has any questions or issues, they will be able to offer advice in this area:

http://www.autism.org.uk/our-services/advice-and-information-services/welfare-rights-service.aspx

Bloodheart - you can email them if that's better for you.

Good luck.

Sandra - mod

Already emailed, no responce yet.

Manja said:

I am mother of high-functioning Autistic who desperately wants a job in a very specific field (he has a Masters degree in this field!). I actually spoke to DWP first, and we applied for his Jobseekers online, which meant that DWP assessed his claim before the Job Centre got involved. DWP were incredibly helpful which is amazing! Job Centre is really not qualified to deal with disabled 'clients', and they gave totally contradictory information to DWP's info. I attend all interviews with my son to 'fight' his corner as, so if you have someone who can go with you to deal with advisers/mentor you/fight your corner, that would really help.  Then insist on receiving support from a DEA - Job Centre should have given you an appointment with DEA (Disability Employment Adviser) at the outset. DWP would be my recommendation to speak to first, to remain on Jobseekers rather than ESA. At least now no-one is trying to force my son to work in a role that is not suitable for him but he couldn't have got through it all without my help, so do try to get someone on side!

Glad your son is doing okay, but my experience has been FAR different.

I had a DEA which made no difference what-so-ever in what I was being made to do, and while on Work Program you stop seeing a DEA so that's two years with no DEA instead dealing with job centre staff and Work Program staff.

Hello everyone,

I just wanted to post a link to the NAS Welfare Rights Service. If anyone has any questions or issues, they will be able to offer advice in this area:

http://www.autism.org.uk/our-services/advice-and-information-services/welfare-rights-service.aspx

Bloodheart - you can email them if that's better for you.

Good luck.

Sandra - mod

I am mother of high-functioning Autistic who desperately wants a job in a very specific field (he has a Masters degree in this field!). I actually spoke to DWP first, and we applied for his Jobseekers online, which meant that DWP assessed his claim before the Job Centre got involved. DWP were incredibly helpful which is amazing! Job Centre is really not qualified to deal with disabled 'clients', and they gave totally contradictory information to DWP's info. I attend all interviews with my son to 'fight' his corner as, so if you have someone who can go with you to deal with advisers/mentor you/fight your corner, that would really help.  Then insist on receiving support from a DEA - Job Centre should have given you an appointment with DEA (Disability Employment Adviser) at the outset. DWP would be my recommendation to speak to first, to remain on Jobseekers rather than ESA. At least now no-one is trying to force my son to work in a role that is not suitable for him but he couldn't have got through it all without my help, so do try to get someone on side!

It's backdated to week 13; so would still lose a lot money.

In theory, I should get into the support on basis of sight loss alone; but can't see (excuse the pun) that happening.

stranger said:

I currently receive DLA. I also receive money on JSA for being disabled. I will lose this money if I go on to ESA; as there's no disability premium within ESA. It's currently worth £30.35 per week.

Yes, understood, however, although initially you probably would lose that £30.35, once the decision was made you'd then get an extra £28.15 per week (or £34.05 per week if put into the 'Support' group (which is unlikely, but possible)). And this should also be back-dated to the date when you first put in the application.

So, at the worst you'll only actually be £2.20 worse off per week on ESA - I guess you have to ask yourself, is the extra stress and not getting the support you need really worth £8.80 per month?

And, in theory, you might end up better off (if they decide to put you in the Support group (you can still choose to work in that group, btw)) by £3.70 per week (£14.80 per month).

I currently receive DLA. I also receive money on JSA for being disabled. I will lose this money if I go on to ESA; as there's no disability premium within ESA. It's currently worth £30.35 per week.

I really should be on ESA - keep getting sensory overload and am having a load of other problems. I have been told I should been on ESA. I shall see my GP and see what she says about this. I simply can't cope with the work programme at the moment.

What do you mean you'll lose over £100 a month?

The current rate of JSA is £71 per week (or £56.25 if aged 16 to 24).

The current 'basic rate' of ESA is £71 per week (or £56.25 if aged 16 to 24) - which you will receive only up until the point at which they make a decision, and which point you then get an additional £28.15 per week, if you're placed in the 'Work Related Activity' group (that which I refered to as the 'employement' group), or £34.05, if you're placed in the 'Support' group.

Giving you a total of either £99.15 (or £84.40 if aged 16 to 24) or £105.05 (or £90.30 if aged 16 to 24) depending on which group in which you're placed.

Now, if you currently receive lower rate DLA care component, you should also be receiving an additional £30.35 per week (or £43.25 for couples), on top of your JSA, so you would lose out there, but not by over £100 a month.

Also, if you do receive DLA, that won't change. I get both ESA and DLA.

If you don't get DLA, then you'll actually gain by going on to ESA, once you're placed in one of the two groups, also simply by being on ESA, you're more likely to then be seen as being eligible to receive DLA.

Still having problems. They want me to go on courses - despite saying that they're not going to send me on any more. They did once tell me to go on to ESA - if I do that, I will lose over £100 a month. I simply can't afford to do that.

I told them that I feel as though the sessions are pointless and that I actually got more support from the job centre. They told me that if I don't attend, I will get sanctioned. I've asked to be referred to someone else. I am not going on courses for which I have no interest in. They don't care at all - all they care about is getting me back to work and them getting their payment.

ESA, or Employment Support Allowance, whilst it is the replacement for Incapacity Benefit, doesn't work in exactly the same way as Incapacity Benefit worked.

Basically, it was all part of the previous government's drive to get more disabled people into work, and is meant for anyone with a disability, whether they wish to work or not.

Now, getting through the assesment part, as you found first time round, can be difficult - I had to appeal, though I was claiming on the grounds of my Crohn's disease,a dn before I'd had a diagnosis of Asperger's, though I was also at the point with that where I knew there was 'something' else, just not what.

Anyway, at the appeal it's not like the assesment, you get a chance to actually explain what difficulties you have, and it's not just box-ticking exercise like the assement is.

I also believe that the assessments have been improved, or so they say, and with the Autism Strategy now being law, they should take that into account.

OK, once you get through the assesment (and possible appeal) phase, you'll be put into one of two groups - I can't remember the official names for them, but they're essentially the 'employment' group, and the 'non-employment' group - the latter is for people they consider unfit for work (and you basically have to be dead, or nearly dead, to get into that group!) and the former is for everyone else, and you'll be given the opportunity to receive help in finding suitable work.

There's much less pressure put on you, and they're much more helpful.

No one has been able to adequatly explain ESA - I always thought it was for people who can't work, I most definately can work and have no problems within work.

I applied for ESA over a year ago (after the job centre forced me off JSA) and was refused with a score of 0 - not surprising, least of all given they have no criteria for autsm on assessments. Now I'm even more uncertain about ESA. I went to CAB after I was refused ESA first time, they said I have to be on JAS or ESA but were no clearer with which benefit I should actually be claiming. 

Bloodheart,

It sounds to me like you should be on ESA, not JSA.

The normal JobCenter staff are not trained to deal with disabilities, and are under pressure from their management to meet various targets, and so on.

However, on ESA, you will be seen by people who at least have some training to deal with disabilities, and, whilst they too have to meet targets, and so on, they're under much less pressure, and will aim to find you work that is suitable for you, as opposed to just 'any job' (which is all the JobCenter want you to find).

I suggest you go to the C.A.B (or any similar local advice center), explain your situation, and ask them to help you to apply for ESA.

In theory they can't make you do X, Y and Z - but in reatlity how should we deal with this? It just seems like there is no solid information about what they (Work Program or Job Centre) can or can't make you do - both in regards to disabilities and in general - so you're terrified of standing up for yourself in case they stop benefits. 

For example I had problems with the job centre kicking me off JSA because not being able to use a phone apparently meant I wasn't following my job seekers agreement - I knew they were wrong for doing this, but I didn't know my rights enough to say 'No, you can't do that' so I thus had a meltdown in the middle of the office and was forced off JSA regardless. Not even CAB seemed to know my rights to tell me whether or not this was okay, or whether I was within my rights to refuse to see this advisor again (who was also verbally abusive and insulting in the process). 

Something going around the disabled communities right now - http://www.refusewp.com - Refuse the Work Program, apparently ways of complying without allowing them to use your information against you. I've already signed forms (because I didn't think I had a choice), and am too confused about my rights to know if it would be safe for me to revoke my consent for them to have/use my information.