URGENT HELP NEEDED - Out of control what do we do?

Functioning link for a PDF of the above paper as follows:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/251704720_A_mindfulness-based_strategy_for_self-management_of_aggressive_behaviour_in_adolescents_with_Autism/

I’m sorry to hear of your experience NAS35296. My experience wasn’t dissimilar to yours and you’re doing much better than me. I’ve just recently got a support worker who is helping me set up a weekly timetable etc, with meal plans and shopping lists etc. It’s going to take a while because I need a lot of rest just now. But I’m excited to be finally getting this support and to be getting somewhere. And I’ve done pretty well living as a fake nt but still, when the chips were down, and my world came crashing down, I didn’t have a clue what to do. We really do need to learn how to do this stuff, but as us, and not a fake nt. 

It’s a great suggestion and you’ve done tremendously well. Best of wishes with the job etc although I have no doubts whatsoever that you’ll do well in anything you decide to do. #inspirational 

for example they would write up a weekly timetable that clearly stated what I would be doing each day ironing,cooking cleaning ect it really helped me and now I live independently soon hoping to find a job ect hope this helps

I went through this, I was scared and in despair it was a cry for help but my family feared the worst and cast me off as a failure or the black sheep of the family, i was a little older than 14 and my mum kicked me out and paid for a flat for me to live in alone for 6 months, this didn't help and i became homeless and it was bad. After i got into a supported household where they help you to live like a normal person, have you considered getting him into a supported household there are many around and are helpful ir perhaps yea too young atm?

Thanks for the links Dongfeng, that’l be a bit of bed time reading for me :) 

Yeah, definitely Dongfeng. As soon as I read ‘don’t shout’ I knew instantly that’s an impossibility. And you can’t always link the behaviour to what immediately preceeded it. For example, my dad would ask me to wash the pots and I kick off and refuse. You have to go further back than that to unravel why I behaved like I did. Chances are I had not been getting enough time by myself, or I heard what my dad said in a different way to how he intended it ~ trust me, we can do this, we can totally misunderstand something that sounds very clear to somebody else. There are so many variables but the behaviour is generally not reflective of what’s going on. I would shout, scream and be angry but inside I was scared, lonely, confused, unable to make sense of things, unable to control myself and very very sad. 

Being successful in controlling someone’s behaviour, can sometimes cause much more harm than good. Short term measures are sometimes necessary in times of crisis or danger etc but the goal should be to understand the dynamics and what’s going on behind the scenes and as Dongfeng said, the behaviour will then fix itself naturally. 

Yeah, I discovered the powerful effects of daily exercise when I was 20 and have kept it up ever since. There have been times, for different reasons, when I haven’t been consistent but I know that exercise, as well as being out in the fresh air and nature, is my medicine and soul food. 

Yeah, I identify completely Dongfeng. I feel like what is happening with me currently, the exhaustion and the absolute need to be alone, is that I’m decompressing and detoxing the last 50 years of being on somebody else’s schedule. I feel like I’m also giving my body and myself the rest that I so very much need. Without alone time I go crazy so I can see why I would kick off so much as a child growing up with a brother and a sister and loads of cousins, with barely anytime alone. No wonder I liked to sit in the wardrobe and under the bed and my favourite, the bathroom floor! 

I agree Dongfeng, just reading that line ‘homework gets done and you attend school’ makes me feel kind of dizzy and it kind of cancels itself out. It would be as if I read or hear it but it doesn’t register because I don’t understand it so it’s as if I never heard or read it. It’s like it disappears from my memory, which I guess is because it never got put in there. It’s almost like reading a random set of words that I barely understand individually. 

It would have to be very specific for me, with timetables and visual cues. Social stories are very good and NAS has some good info on them and how to develop and use them. 

That’s brilliant NAS35349, that helps me a lot too. I recognise myself in your son and things have turned out ok for me but if I can help someone else, and their family, work it all out a lot quicker, then that makes everything I’ve been through worth while. 

I would suggest printing the stuff off what I wrote and re-reading it regularly. You can’t take it all in at once and by reading it regularly, it will spark things off in your own mind and help you take more positive actions etc. 

Your son and your family are very lucky to have you and it gives me comfort to know that there’s someone out there, like me, who has a family who loves him and are open and willing to do what they can to let him know he’s loved and cared for. 

There are no magic wands and we never get things right all the time, no matter how aware and clued up we get. And we’re not supposed to. It’s not about that. It’s about learning to be the best we can be, without any comparison whatsoever with anybody else. We are all unique beings, nobody can be us better than we can, so we have nobody to compete with. As your son starts to feel less stressed etc, he will enjoy playing a more active role in the family and it will be teaching him about responsibility in a way that he understands. Best wishes to all of you. 

it’s so complex and more important to look at what’s behind the behaviour

Yeah. That's it. Something had been really bothering me about the "discipline / there have to be rules" outlook, but I couldn't quite articulate what I felt was "off" with that approach. It was as if I unconsciously knew, but the information was just out of reach intellectually.

BlueRay's advice to avoid fixating purely on the behaviour has suddenly reminded me of:

https://youtu.be/rPD_yzMHJls at 13m27s. 

I found this slide deck by the creator of the diagram (with a version you can actually read!):

www.med.upenn.edu/.../ValerieGAUS.PhD.ppt

Focussing on behaviour alone is essentially setting the lad up to fail, and he won't even realise why. You need to also consider how differences or gaps in cognition are causing or exacerbating the behaviour, then work out ways to mitigate the cognitive gaps. The behaviour will then most likely fix itself. 

Does he get enough time alone?

Oh, that's good. 

I tend to be a real sh*t if there is never any time to "decompress". It is something to do with my mind needing to spin through all sorts of different thoughts and possibilities.

If I feel like I am constantly on someone else's schedule with no slack, or someone is talking at me without giving me a chance to follow the conversation (e.g. when I am already trying to do something else, but have been interrupted), I get to a point where I just need everything to stop, because I am at my limit.

I can completely understand how these sorts of situations would cause your lad to "kick off". 

Regular daily physical exercise really helped me

Yup. Works for me, too.

Helps me get a sense of proportion when things go wrong. My resilience to stress is a lot higher if I am running 3 times a week, even if it is just 3-5km or so. I also sleep better, which of course helps to create a virtuous cycle. 

My moods are much better if I stay well away from processed foods and stick to wholegrain cereals rather than white flour or white bread. Cut out sugar too, for the same reason. 

paulponty said:

Homework get done and you attend school.

This is actually two things, and they're a bit too vague. Separate them into two dedicated items and assume that the only message he gets will be contained in the rules you're establishing. No implicit assumptions, because he is probably not on the same page as you at all.  

When is homework to be done? Before dinner? 3am? After the teacher's deadline?

As currently written, he's complied if the homework for today is done by Christmas... you do not want to get into, "no, that's not what I meant". 

Get him to tell you what the rules are. 

Try using "social stories" to teach him how his actions impact others. 

Try establishing a family timetable so he knows what is coming and when. 

If he keeps getting caught out by "no, now it's time to do..." then try some sort of visible reminder of what is next on the schedule. 

Wow Thanks Blue for spending the time on this. Greatly appreciated......

We all sat down last night and discussed some of these points and it went very well to be honest, so fingers crossed.

But many thanks for providing the insights - its definitely helped me understand better.

Oh, and what REALLY helped me when I started kicking off and shouting. Somehow my dad figured out, unless it was a brilliant accident, that when he completelty ignored me, totally, by not stopping what he was doing at all, when I started shouting, I would calm down within minutes. And even when I had calmed down, he still never said anything and the whole thing passed over without any drama. Maybe what would have benefited me even more, was if, let's say, the next day or something I was given the opportunity to explore what happened, see if I understood what happeneded, if I knew what triggered me, if I thought there was anything I could do differently next time etc.

But I had actually left home by this time but it was still a huge revelation for me and a turning point when it happened. Because if he had got involved and tried to calm me down or tell me to shut up or whatever, it would have gone on for ages, it wouldn't have blown over, I would learn nothing from it and I would just be left hating my dad and thinking I needed to get away. 

So yeah, that was a massive turning point for me, to realise that I could have this horrible flare ups and that they could pass within minutes. I thought they had to last for hours and days with me feeling like complete *** and hating everybody. So yeah, that would be my very top tip, the one that had the most significant affect on me. 

Hi NAS35349, sorry for my long delay. Eating’s a big deal for me just now, so it kind of takes a long time to have something to eat and destress after it etc.

Ok, I’ll respond to each of the points you make, but remember, this is only my thoughts, that come up as I read what you’ve written. I like to give my perspective as I can relate to what you say about your son. Like I said before, I could never do what you’re doing. My child was an angel compared to me, so I had it easy in that respect. You really are doing a good job.

Yes, you need to make sure that whatever rules you put in place, he fully understands them and why. That might not be straight forward. It might take some gentle discussion. His understanding of what you say may be different to what you think you’re saying. He needs to know why there are consequences and what you hope to achieve by having consequences in place etc. Try to let him know and create an atmosphere of partnership. Let him know he’s part of the family and he’s important and that’s why you want to involve him in this discussion, so you can all work together as a family. He needs to know that he’s valued, exactly as he is, but that for you all to live together, you all need to be working together for the same goal, which is a happy household.

First off, I would just say, that if he’s having meltdowns and kicking off etc, then there is something in his life that he’s just not coping with right now and he might not even know what it is. To begin to find out, you need to let him know that you love him, you’re not angry with him and that you want to help him.

He might not respond to this approach in a way that you think he ‘should’. We process things differently. For example, if this was me, at his age. I would find this type of discussion excruciatingly painful and my anxiety levels would be on high alert. I wouldn’t know that it was painful. I didn’t understand myself at all back then, so I’d be uncomfortable and also ashamed and embarrassed because I wouldn’t know why I couldn’t just talk to them, like any other normal human being. I would be annoyed with myself, upset and frustrated. I would have feelings I didn’t recognise and I’d want the whole thing over and done with as quickly as possible. I’d be on the brink of kicking off or having a melt down, especially if you expected me to say something. I might want to say, thank you for talking to me, can I have a couple of days to process this. But instead I would probably shout at you, tell you that I hate you and storm off. Then I’m not processing anything, other than I hate my mum and dad and I wish I could leave and I wouldn’t have a clue about what I’d just done. I’d just be torturing myself so being so horrible, so useless, so weird. But I would project it out, because that would be too painful. So I would think that I hate you and I had to leave Home as soon as I could. I was always running away and first left home at 14. It might have been because they asked me to tidy my room.

I would keep the first session brief. Let him know you just want him to know how much you love and care for him and that you want to help him. You’re just trying to create an atmosphere where he feels loved and supported and not judged. I promise you, that whenever he kicks off, he doesn’t mean any harm to you, he just can’t tell you what’s going on for him. You could maybe write it down as well, so he can take it away, think about what you said and process the information in his own time and in his own way. Depending on his reaction, you could maybe encourage him to write down for you, any areas in his life that he’s finding difficult right now. Let him know that you can’t help him unless he tries to tell you what’s going on for him. Tell him you’ll do your best for him and you will support him as best you can, even if he doesn’t talk to you and even if he can’t tell you. This is not about punishment or blame, you want to help him to feel calm and happy. Say you didn’t understand before but that you’ve got more understanding now and you want to understand more so you can help him to be happy and be the best person he can be.

Then do something nice together as a family, if that’s his thing. Have a nice tea together or watch a movie or let him do something he really enjoys. So he associates these talks with good things. You want to create an atmosphere of safety for him. He needs to feel safe and supported, seen and understood. He sees the world differently and has some very unique challenges that can be difficult for an nt (neurotypical) to understand and even for him to understand. Christ, I’m only just beginning to understand myself.

1. Homework get done and you attend school. (Hes had a lot of trouble forgetting homework)

Does he really need to do homework? Is it causing him stress? Is school difficult for him? You know, school isn’t as important as we sometimes think. If school is really stressful for him, is it the right place for him to be? What are the difficulties with doing the homework? Does he need more help? More time? The school have a responsibility here. I don’t care what school it is or whether or not your son has an ‘official’ diagnosis. If he’s struggling, they have a duty to support him. What could make school easier for him? If he is getting stressed out with School, he will have meltdowns. He will lash out and more than likely that will be at home. Your family life, your sanity and your sons wellbeing is more important than school. There are other options for schooling. Kids can do online schooling from home. There are many options. The main point here is to find out why your son is struggling with doing his homework. Find out his thoughts on it. Does he want to do his homework? If yes, why? Is he simply trying to ‘fit in’ and be a good boy. Is he trying to live up to somebody else’s expectations. Or does he genuinely need some level of help, whether that’s with the work or organising a routine that will help him. But if he doesn’t do it because he doesn’t want to, it will be difficult to encourage to do it. If this is the case, it’s more important to find out why he doesn’t want to do it. He might be a child but he can still decide if he wants to do something or not and to at least be listened to. There are many possible reasons as to why he’s not doing homework. If he didn’t go to school, what would he like to do? Remember you’re just talking to him. You’re not promising him anything, your not trying to solve a ‘problem’, you’re simply trying to help your son discover what’s causing him to have these meltdowns and not keep up with his school work.

2. Rubbish gets removed from bedroom once a week minimum. (It was starting to resemble a rubbish dump)

How does he feel about this? Chances are he has no idea that his lack of cleanliness in his room impacts on anybody else. I had no idea of this when I was younger. Even until relatively recently, I honestly did not know that my actions, my behaviour etc, had any impact at all on anybody else. If my dad told me to clean up or wash the pots I would go into a rage. My mum used to cover for me to keep the peace. I didn’t understand that it was a perfectly normal and acceptable request. I can’t really tell you why I was so outraged, but even when I think of it now, I can feel myself getting hot and my jaw tensing. It’s horrible. There’s no logical explanation for it but it’s real and it’s nothing to do with logic or sense or misbehaving or anything like that. It’s as if, a part of my brain just cannot cope with such requests. He might not like having rubbish in his room but can’t do anything about it. Autism is very complex and somethings are almost unexplainable. If he doesn’t like rubbish in his room and it’s there, that’s going to cause him even more stress, frustration, confusion etc. You need to find out how he feels about it. Maybe if he just can’t manage to get the rubbish out, there’s another job he can do in exchange for someone taking the rubbish out of his room for him. Does he need help to take the rubbish out. For example, make some pictures that you can laminate and stick on the wall showing in simple form that every Friday at 5 pm he takes the rubbish out of his room and puts it in the bin. Or something like that. I have pictures on my wall of someone waking up, then the next one is someone getting out of bed, then brushing their teeth etc.

I have completed these tasks by myself all my life, so why can’t I do them now without the pictures? Because I’ve hit a wall and all my previous routines and techniques have gone out the window. I never realised how important routines were for me. I didn’t know I couldn’t function without them. I purposely got rid of them because in another desperate attempt to find out what was ‘wrong’ with me, I thought I was too controlling, that I needed to let the routines go.

Does he realise the significance of him not cleaning his room? For example, it could get infested with mould etc? His mum or dad have to clean it which makes them stressed as it is too much for them to manage with work and everything else. Have a conversation with him about it and see what you can all come up with. Maybe there’s something he really likes, such as cutting the grass or cleaning windows. If he likes it, chances are he’ll do a great job. Try and help him find his place in the family. Remember he sees things differently, he’s got challenges that he won’t understand yet, he needs support to be a member of your family. That kind of stuff doesn’t come natural to us. We won’t ever interact with you like an nt kid or nt adult, because we’re not, we’re autistic. But he can still be an active and valued member of your family. Maybe he’s really good with the hoover. I used to be obsessed with cleaning windows. So at least my mum had clean windows! Lol! But I wouldn’t do the other chores and grew up feeling bad about that when really, I had little control over it.

3. Food/plates get taken down every day (Awful smell and we'd run out of plates!)

Again, talk to him about this and find out if he understands it in the way you do. Help him to establish a routine with it.

4. Time limit in the shower. If you want to soak have a bath. (This is related to hos OCD but he regularly uses a tank of hot water and then no-one else can have  shower - and its costing a fortune!)

When I get in the shower, I swear to god, I don’t want to get out. It’s like therapy. I feel the water coming down on me and I can’t tell you how relaxing and therapeutic it is. I hate having to get out. If I go somewhere, I usually get ready, right at the last minute. Which means when I get in the shower, I have to get out again pretty quickly. It’s torture. Sometimes I cry. Sometimes I don’t get out and I miss the appointment or whatever it was. When I’m in the shower, nothing is as important as the shower.

When I was working. It was part of my routine. I would go running as soon as I got up, do yoga etc, get in the shower and go to work. Because it was part of that routine, I got in and out without thinking about it. It’s almost like I was a robot. I couldn’t even feel the water because I was so focussed on the next aspect of my routine.

But now, I take really long showers. It sounds like this could also be a therapy for your son as well. That doesn’t mean he has to use all the water everyday. Work out a routine together. Maybe he gets 5 minutes or whatever in the shower every day but on a Friday at 6 pm, he gets one hour. Or something like that. What is it that he likes about the shower. If it’s therapeutic, explore other options he could try to get the same results. Maybe he’d like a weighted blanket or to go swimming. It could be a lot of things but together you can work something out where he gets his needs met without using all the hot water. Maybe it is as simple as having a set time for when he’s in there. Can you make cards for this that you can put on the wall?

5. No shouting/raising voice at home. (He does this all the time).

This is rather impossible. It would have been for me anyway. As much as I hated shouting, I couldn’t control myself. I just couldn’t do it. I’ve got a much much better control of it now but even now, with all my training in meditation and Metaohysics etc, I can still lose it. If he can’t shout ‘at home’, is there anywhere he can go to shout. For example, could he go in the garden? Have you got a garage? Could he do something else? Punch the punch bag? If he’s shouting it’s because he can’t express himself any other way in that moment, he has no or very little control over it. He most likely has emotions and feelings and thoughts that he can’t process, that he can’t understand or recognise. The shouting, as unpleasant and as unhelpful as it is, is a release for him. It’s crucial that he is given another avenue for expression. Regular daily physical exercise really helped me with this. I used to run for 3 to 5 miles before work and go to the gym and do yoga and go walking. The more physically active I am, the more stable my moods are and my behaviour is less erratic and explosive. He might enjoy more mental stimulation. Do lights bother him or sound. Does he get enough time alone? Is there anything he wishes he could do. What does he like? What is he interested in?

This behaviour didn’t happen over night and it won’t go away over night. Every action is preceded by a thought or an emotion but and autistic people especially, don’t always know what’s triggered us. It could be that we are sensory overloaded from the day and anything, even the letter box rattling can send us into a meltdown. This is why it’s so complex and more important to look at what’s behind the behaviour rather than just stopping the behaviour. If you stop it by punishment and reward, he might never understand what it’s all about. He will simply learn to not do some things for fear of punishment and others to get a reward. This in itself can become problematic. If the treats don’t continue, that can cause confusion and then aggression. You want him to be calm and relaxed, because he’s calm and relaxed, not because he’s suppressing him emotions. What calming therapies do you think might help? There’s information you can explore about such things. Of course let him know that nobody wants the shouting to continue but that you want to help him find a way to self sooth, calm himself and process stuff in a way that’s helpful to him.

6.  Do not damage items in the house. (Im going to get him a punch bag)

Again, as above. We don’t damage stuff on purpose. If we had control over this we wouldn’t do it in the first place. I’ve damaged my most treasured possessions before now and thrown things away and burn them and later I was heartbroken. But I couldn’t control myself. Before I could learn to control this, I had to learn to understand me and this has taken me years and years of introspection and inner work. It took me years before I could control my meltdowns and outbursts. I have paid over a hundred thousand pounds over the years for therapy etc. The level of control I have now didn’t come easy. I ended up in prison and in that kind of life for many years. I looked like a tough girl but inside I was so scared and alone. I had no idea about autism then. And I’m the same now as I was then, only I understand myself now. But that understanding didn’t change me. I’m autistic. I have meltdowns. I have irrational fears. I’m hyposensitive to some things and hypersensitive to others. Anger can raise up in me over the tinniest of things, but through vipassana meditation, I have learned to stop my behaviour before it happens by being aware of the impulses in my body. We don’t change. We just have to learn how we fit in with this world, where we fit in. Our world view is different to yours so when you think we understand something, most of the time, we don’t, but we’ll mask it, and make out like we know what your talking about. We’ll probably get cocky, to cover up. We think there’s something wrong with us. We can’t understand why we’re not like everybody else. It’s a very isolating and scary place to be. It’s like being in a foreign country, all alone, not knowing what to do because we don’t understand all your rules, we don’t have the same connections to things like you do. When you have scary thoughts and feelings, you will exhibit scary behaviour.

7.  No lying - for various reason he lies rather than be honest with us. At the moment he just wont be honest.

Again, you might think something is a lie and he might think it’s not. You need to be clear with this. Instead of telling him not to lie, start helping him to see that by telling the truth, trying, when he can to talk about things, you can help him find solutions. If you tell him not to lie, it’s like a double negative. Don’t even mention that word. It implies ill intent, which automatically sets the scene with him as the bad boy. Let him know it’s ok if he can’t tell you or doesn’t want to talk about it now. Does he need more time to process things? Is he worried about anything? Don’t put him in a position where he can tell a lie. Try to talk to him in a way to illicit certain responses. Always make sure he understands what you’re talking about, never assume he does. That doesn’t mean he’s stupid or anything but we’re kind of wired up differently. He needs to feel safe and loved at all times.

8.  Realise that outside the house there are rules also. (OCD related again - but he pretty much trashes public toilets - sprays bleach everywhere and soak it, blocks with toilet roll etc. Then lies about it).

Does he take bleach out with him? Maybe get him some specific help with the ocd to find better ways to help him understand it.

9. When therapy (for his OCD) starts take it seriously and realise you need to engage and help yourself. (Big problem with him at the moment)

I’ve got pathological demand avoidance as well as autism which makes therapy extremely difficult. It’s only just now, after 50 years, that I have completely engaged with therapy. And it took me to be completely desperate and barely able to function. It’s difficult. Because when I come into contact with nt’s, this automatic mask comes on and there’s a barrier between us that I can’t seem to get past. Also, he needs a therapist who understand autism. One of my best therapists who I had for a couple of years, said that all the treatments etc that she did with me, she did the opposite way round to what she did with everyone else. He needs to be genuinely motivated and ready for help for him to engage in therapy. Then he’ll want to. It’s like you can’t help an alcoholic if he doesn’t want help and we have to be teachable. He will have to respect and trust the therapist. I think everyone hates me, most likely he will too so it might take a while to build a relationship of trust, whereby he feels safe. You can’t put a time limit on this.

It’s also crucial that you understand and truly ‘know’ how bloody good of a job your doing. Write down, with pen and paper, 3 examples of times when you know you’ve been a good dad. Write more than 3. Really get into this. You need to have confidence in your role. You might not have got things right every time. Show me one parent who has. And a child with autism is a whole different ball game. I know. I was that child. You’re doing an amazingly good job, you have to know this, seriously. It’s not vanity, I’m not trying to puff you up, you are doing a good job and if you sit down and think about it and actually write down some genuine examples of times when you know you’ve been a good dad, you will start to see this for yourself.

When was the last time you told your wife how beautiful she is, and swept her off her feet? When was the last time you told her how incredible she is and how much you love and appreciate her and how happy you are to have her in your life?

What do you do on a daily/weekly basis for yourself, for fun, relaxation, expressing your creativity, meeting friends, doing a hobby, having fun or romantic nights out with your wife?

There are no easy fixes here and even if there was, they don’t work long term. You might as well do your best to look after yourself. Create a nice life. Be a role model for your son. Kids learn by our actions, not by what we say.

Cut yourself some slack. Everything is ok. You have a roof over your head. A warm bed to sleep in. Food on the table. You’re ok. You’re not about to be eaten by a grizzly bear. When we go into the fight or flight mode, an ancient bodily function, we act like animals. We don’t think. We react. And then we don’t give ourselves time or space to process what just happened. We go into fixing mode. Trying to make everything right. But everything is already alright. Practice deep breathing exercises. Yoga. Walks in fresh air. If you look after yourself you will ride the storms better.

Yes wife has already pushed this. They're starting CBT for OCD and also starting the process re:aspergers.

Based on the psychs recommendations, they're treating him as aspergers now unless proven otherwise.

Im going to attempt to get something to eat, so I'll reply when I've finished that job. But yes, it most certainly is a very very tough situation. 

Cheers Blue - you've been amazing with the help so far.

Glad you agree thats its tough - it really is. We're going to sit down with him tonight and discuss house rules and make sure he knows the score. We're trying to minimise these but of course, there do need to be some. Was it you or someone else who said we should explain why these rules are in place too? And also let him know consequences?

Like I said, trying minimize the rules but how does this sound?

1. Homework get done and you attend school. (Hes had a lot of trouble forgetting homework)

2. Rubbish gets removed from bedroom once a week minimum. (It was starting to resemble a rubbish dump)

3. Food/plates get taken down every day (Awful smell and we'd run out of plates!)

4. Time limit in the shower. If you want to soak have a bath. (This is related to hos OCD but he regularly uses a tank of hot water and then no-one else can have  shower - and its costing a fortune!)

5. No shouting/raising voice at home. (He does this all the time).

6.  Do not damage items in the house. (Im going to get him a punch bag)

7.  No lying - for various reason he lies rather than be honest with us. At the moment he just wont be honest.

8.  Realise that outside the house there are rules also. (OCD related again - but he pretty much trashes public toilets - sprays bleach everywhere and soak it, blocks with toilet roll etc. Then lies about it).

9. When therapy (for his OCD) starts take it seriously and realise you need to engage and help yourself. (Big problem with him at the moment)

Is this too much? Seems to me to pretty basic set of rules.