Imagining a neurodivergent world

If there were fewer barriers to neurodivergent contributions, how might NDs shape the world? 

  • Giving up on a game where you cannot possibly take part effectiveiy, and seeking an alternative path where your failure is not predetermined by other people's procedures and expectations is the strategy I am exploring right now. 

    Getting "other people" out of my business, removes at least 50% of my probability of failure, and failure hurts a lot less when it is really only your fault. You can change yourself and not fail again. It takes a lot more effort to stop the NT's sabotaging your efforts, than it takes to stop yourself doing it.

    I no longer feel any responsibility to "perform as instructed" since it simply does not work for me, and I've given it a half century of effort. 

    Knowing however that I have no route to the "easy money" (and regular employment is the very definition of easy money, let me tell you!) Crime is an unattractive lifestyle, except for a very few "winners" and even then, they never quite know if they will get to keep their gains, especially when surrounded by other criminal types, Benefits even if I qualified for them (I do not) require a level of abasement and begging that makes it a bloody job in and of itself, and becoming dependent on the state appears to be as psychologically corroding as a heroin habit.

    So for me the only way forwards is subsistence, whilst I manage a small, quite neurodivergent team that is developing a novel table top low energy nuclear fusion device... In ten years of intermittent effort we have done transmutation twice now, (at least according to the DIY spectroscopy, we recognise there is more to be done before we make any public announcements, but we think it might be worth a few quid when we can get it to work more reliably, and er, control the fire risk. 

    I also have several other threads of activity, any of which I hope may lead me to sufficient prosperity to (one sunny day) become a "provider" again, rather than the "taker" than I have to be when there is no one else to do my job applications for me... 

  • If you look at the vast majority of NTs at school, they just trundle down the conveyor-belt with little additional input.    

    As we're a spectrum, how could you sort and allocate resources to us?      We'd need continuous assessment to ensure the super-brights get stretched and the more sensitive get supported.

    The challenge would be finding sufficient teachers clever enough to keep up with the genius kids.  Smiley

    You'd probably need a juvenile university for the 14-year-olds that have finished all the usual syllabus.   Smiley

  • Having thought about this more, the only thing i would do is sort out the education system ,as the next generations filter through the world things would improve hopefully. No point in banging your head against a wall of ignorance.

  • There's a load of terms that get short-handed.

    NT = normal = neurotypical

    AS = Autistic Spectrum or Asperger's syndrome.

    ND = Neuro-Divergent - one of us

    ASD = autistic spectrum disorder

  • I can quite understand, I feel.

    Is the initial application part (which I also struggle hugely with) an ND or an NT thing? I'd personally find that hard to say. My own feelings are that it's lately come from a worst of both (ND and NT) worlds situation.

    I understand the despair and somewhat feel I am your brethren in regard of this very life-limiting struggle.

  • It's worse than that Jim. I can ace most interviews (when the job is actually right for me, some seem to be misdescribed initially). It's getting past the initial formal application process, that scuppers me. I only ever get work if someone else does that bit for me, or by recommendation.

    There's a brief period of pleasantness until I get noticed by the workplace bully, then the countdown starts...

    I'm pretty disinterested in the whole concept now.

    14 times bitten, shy at last...

     

  • I tend to like ASC. I agree that Autism Spectrum Difference is much better/fairer than 'disorder'.

    The terms given for conditions are often given by researchers and many of the 'breakthrough' researchers (ie the ones that dream up new names for conditions) will likely be neurodivergent to quite a degree -even if they may not fully regard themselves as such.

  • "when do we attack?"

    Erm ... I don't know. I think Zuckerberg has been attacking for years. What he's attacking, I don't know. But I've felt pretty caught in the 'friendly fire' so to speak.

    I sympathise and empathise a lot with the huge struggles with getting employment. It is really hard. This bit really does kind of 'kill me' too.

    I know that NTs are very good at getting through the interview process without too much issue.

    My question is, who sets the rules for how interviews are run? Is it NTs or NDs?

    If you'd have asked me 20 years ago, I'd have suggested NTs largely set the rules and run this side of things. I struggled 20 years ago a fair bit, but I just about coped.

    Nowadays, I get the impression it's systems and rules designed by NDs that are beginning to control the recruitment process. Computer systems and standardised interview questions are the kind of thing NDs dream up and wish to implement. I don't think I can totally blame NTs for this. I've much more struggled in recruitment in the digital age (which is more likely an ND-developed product) than the non-digital age.

  • Let's start with ASD meaning Autism Spectrum Difference shall we? OR shall we insist on letting our normie oppressors continue labelling us as disordered?  

  • Thank you very much for your "balancing" post. With my talk of an "Autistic Army" and frankly the sheer enjoyment I've derived from other people's criticisms of "normie world" I am shamelessly working to sublime my own feelings of hatred of things that happened to me and others of my "type" via a little bit of controversial speak mixed with a lot of humour. I assume that here that my fellow Autists are somewhat like me, well versed in feeling strong emotion, but not instantly acting on it. In normie world, most of us appear to have taken a lot of "stick". That will continue until there is some pushback, OR we prove ourselves to be actually superior, or at least equal in worth to the normies.

    My problem is that I always get the low wage, I'm always at the end of the line when the freebies are handed out, and I'm almost always "uninvited" although to be fair the vast majority of events I do not wish to go to anyway. I've been blaming myself and working like a *** to improve myself and now I find that despite being hugely skilled, held in high regards I am told by a few people for my moral values and actions, willing (and sometimes able!) to work like an outmoded concept, these things are insufficent to make me employable on the same rate as a Normie, with his well presented CV full of lies... EVERY TIME. 

    I don't think my experience is unique either, and since I've been living on 2000 quid a year now for twenty years since the last time (by sheer luck) I had an "enabler" who could help me past the normie bullshit and into work, Admittedly I chose a second life partner who earns too much to allow me dole, and is completely unable to help me with my limitations, excepting to put a roof over my head, but I didn't know I was autistic and thought my limitations could eventually be overcome simply by straightening up and flying right. Now I know that the normies will NEVER give me a living wage and a decent job again, and I don't quite have all the right qualities to make entrepeneurship work consistently despite being quiet a competent and generally good performer, away from the water cooler, I am becoming very keen to see my Autistic comrades seize control of society from the normies, actually.  

    NO hate speech intended here, but may I ask, when do we attack?

    For once, I don't think I want to be late.

  • Quieter pubs and restaurants would be very nice.

    A somewhat different economy system would be good. [Albeit I personally feel that NDs play a big role in the current economic framework of our current world] I'd love it if pubs could be pubs without having to pay huge tariffs on tax and be forced into turning into restaurants (making them more expensive for punters) to make enough money to survive. [I only mention pubs as this industry I know better than others because of family connections.]

    I'd love it if carers, counsellors and other people who work one-on-one with people were as well paid as people who do so-called 'higher-level' administration roles that set rules/guidelines for the one-on-one carers/helpers to follow.

    etc Smiley

    I'm not sure a 100% ND world would actually achieve what I'm mainly looking for here though. In the ND people I know, there seems to be as much division and 'fighting for resources' as there is amongst NTs. What I've personally observed is that some (certainly not all) of the NDs in my life have been more ruthless in fighting for resources than my NT friends/acquaintances.

    Another thing is, the people who fight for resources can also be the ones that fight harder for protection of a group at times, so like so much in life, it's 'all swings and roundabouts'. i.e. every aspect of life seems to be taking a certain amount of rough with the smooth no matter who one is spending time living with.

    Right, I'm exhausted Smiley But, yes, good question.


    I've probably overly-complicated the question by including an economic framework - but then I guess even a small town would probably need some kind of economic framework that it's activities were based on -so I guess it's only right in a way to consider this aspect too, as people would need to work and stuff to keep the town functioning.

  • I think something like that would work very well on a small scale like a town mayyyyybe a city but I don't think an entire country run by 100% ND people would work out well there would need to be a balance for that to work.

    Imagine a nice little town and everything was built in such a way that caters to ND's that would be amazing nice quiet shops with none of all that constant beeping. There could be establishments that deal with all kinds of things for special interests where we can all hang out make friends SO much easier and even try new things that wouldn't normally think of. There's endless things that could be done what would some of your ideas be calmerchameleon?

  • It's quite a nice thought experiment of having a fully, 100% neurodivergent city or state.

    I feel that a proportion of NDs would be happy in such a state/city.

    I also pretty much know that a decent proportion of NDs would filter back or stay within a state that has a balance of NDs and NTs.

    Certainly, my own choice would be to live within a state that has a balance of NDs and NTs. I feel that nature has a way of working things out and I kind of trust/have faith that nature is doing a pretty good job of getting the balance roughly about right.

    If the thought experiment were put into practice, it would be quite interesting to see how it works out, and I think there'd be some interesting learning to come from it.

  • I must know a lot of rare neurotypicals, then. I'm currently being helped by a bunch of neurotypicals who are working for a mental health charity and are being extremely good to me. They are certainly aware of the consequences of their actions and, thankfully, the consequences of those actions are being very positive at the moment, I find.

  • Is it politicians you are calling charlatans or neurotypical people in general that you are calling charlatans?

  • I would say that we do live in a quite strongly neurodivergent world.

    I would quite happily say that people regarded as neurotypical do/would outnumber those of us who would be regarded as neurodivirgent but ...

    When it comes to decision-making in this world, many of the decisions made by the few that are followed by the many are actually being imagined and made by people with a significant number of neurodivergent traits.

    I would tend to think that the founders of, and many of the people high up in, the mega-companies, like Google, Apple and Facebook, that are more and more dictating our lives are neurodivergent people.

    I do appreciate that for many of us, in our day-to-day lives, it would be nice to be openly connected with plenty of neurodiviergent people so I appreciate the positive natures of this thread.


    One last point, if we are overly tarring people that are neurotypical as liars, nasty or otherwise diabolical, we are at risk of demonstrating 'hate-speech', so I'd ask people to just bear this in mind.

    I would not tolerate hate-speech against fellow neurodivergents, and I report the thankfully actually quite rare instances (in my own observations at least) of it that I occasionally see on other platforms (Twitter, YouTube whatever).

    If I see anti-NT or anti-ND hate speech on this forum, I'll be as fair on NTs as I am on NDs.

    I'm pleased that this thread is generally being quite lovely to each other, which is very good to see Slight smile

  • In the world outside my head, I observe that  there is a huge difference between being "selectable" for a job and performance once selected. 

    I once took a job in customer/field service in an environment known for it's stressed customers and performed great with the customers, and rapidly became the "go to guy for a huge area, (especially when teh customer was alredy shouting, they'd send me) BUT as soon as I got involved with my work colleagues face to face, the politics was unbearable and nauseating, and my position of go-to guy rapidly collapsed.. 

    Most jobs are the same, I'm happy to work my *** off, and I want to be kind and cheerful, but the normie colleagues ALWAYS make it unpleasant. I worked at one place in IT that was clearly 'sperg dominated however, and it was bloody blissful... I'd probably still be there if it hadn't gotten taken over and ruined by a normie company, as a hostile business act... 

    I have noticed that on the rare occasion that I get to be in charge in a non-hostile environment things do go very well for all. So I guess the ideal world government will be a bunch of us, with a layer of normie enablers and advisers, to prevent teh usual horrific 'sperg "gaffes" from happening..

    There would be less war, waste and pollution, that's for sure...

  • The point i am making is that autistic people ain't good at the social thing ,so they ain't in the positions of power , you have to be good at that to win votes.

    Not into all that conspiracy stuff ,that seems like just a conspiracy to  detract from the actual truth. Which is, it is hard to run an ever changing world full of billions of nts and nds for that matter . I struggle with communication in general ,not much schooling always struggled with social interaction ,