Verbal/body language communication is over rated

Hi Former Member

Sounds like things are really improving for you and it is good that people are showing such a genuine interest in you as well as caring for your well-being and needs.  The fact that you have some unwritten agreement among you and your friends on how best is to communicate is wonderful.  I am still trying to work on that one, but the fact that you have accomplished this brings me hope.  Verbal/body language is overrated and unfortunately society revolves around it, but I still believe there is a way that NT and ND people can communicate between each other better than we do currently.  Understanding and education will help with this over time.

I'm glad that things are improving for you and you are feeling better than when we last spoke.  :)

Thank you Starbuck, I appreciate that. I feel so loved and cared for right now and with every message I get I feel so fortunate. I know I’m there for my friends and I don’t really ask for help, I didn’t know how to, but this feels like they are paying me back 100% plus more ~ not that I ever put a price on what I give. 

And yes, I 100% agree with you. I absolutely believe there’s a way we can communicate better with nt’s. Most of my friends are nt’s and the diagnosis and the time spent in this burnout have taught me that I need to learn about others and understand them as much as I want them to understand me, as far as they can. My support worker is helping me with that as well and I’m finding ways to communicate with people that doesn’t result in arguments and me getting annoyed with them. I also see how even my brother in law, who I thought for all these years was out to wind me up, wasn’t/isn’t. I thought he was the chief winder upper and he wasn’t at all. 

I’m coming to understand that my autistic traits won’t dissapear just because I have awareness of them but that I can do things to minimise meltdowns etc. For example, I might spent time with people but maybe make the visit a bit shorter and rest afterwards. 

Having all that time alone, not even having to get out of bed or wash and change everyday etc has helped me tremendously as well as having the support from people on this site. I’ve still got a long way to go, my support worker keeps reminding me that I’ve got further to go than I’d like to think and that we have to keep on working the baby steps, because they are actually working. But I’m out of the darkest stage and I can see the light and that’s good enough for me. 

I think we will all find our way to the light if that’s what we’re aiming for, however we get there. You’re often in my thoughts Starbuck because I know we were at a similar stage so I’m glad that my experience is giving you hope. It’s like it all just happened all of a sudden but as we know I put a lot of effort in to getting me where I am today but it worked. I’ve stopped taking the anti depressants but they were a huge huge help. I don’t think I could have got this far without them. I’m very grateful to them. 

With the communication thing, I think it’s all about have total confidence in yourself. Not in who you present to the world, that’s superficial, but in that thing, whatever it is that got us this far. I’ve always had a strong connection to it, all my life, although I didn’t understand it like I do now, or I didn’t understand that others weren’t like me. It’s like when you’re so connected to that thing inside of you that is beyond thoughts and ideas, it emenates out and meets other people. It’s like, I knew I needed this period of total solitude. I knew that and had so much confidence in it, it’s like my friends responded and supported me by not contacting me in all that time. If they had been contacting me I would have been freaking out, I wouldn’t have been able to handle it. I came off all social media, unsubscribed to all email lists and started blocking them. This took me nearly a year but I achieved it so now I’m not getting emails. I just reduced my life down to nothing, basically. I rarely even get mail coming through the door now.  In the past year I’ve hardly ate and when I did, it was usually chocolate yet my blood results are better than they’ve ever been. My vitamin D levels are the highest my doctor said that he’s ever seen. He said in fact, he’s never tested anybody who wasn’t deficient. And I know this is true after working with consultants and politicians in the Isle of Man to get the government to supplement everyone as a matter of course. I have never not been aneamic. Me, my mum, sister and niece are all aneamic. We take iron tablets now and again if it goes too low and we can rarely give blood, but this time, my levels were normal. I have provided my body with little nutrition, no sun light, hardly any fresh air, I have barely moved, I even have bed soars, I haven’t kept my hydration levels up, I have been frequently dehydrated, living on solpeideine to take the pain away because even though I knew a drink of water would do that, I couldn’t drink. Even if I had had to live on the streets, there was nothing that was coming between me and my burnout. Meaning I was shutting the whole world out. I knew it would work even though all those around me were worried, trying to throw labels at me, eating disorder, chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, depression, anxiety, agoraphobia. I was none of those things. I presented as those things but that was a false appearance. I was simply exhausted. My first shut down of this proportion was when I was 18 months old and they put me in an isolation ward at the hospital for kids with learning difficulties, for 3 weeks, all by myself with only nurses going in to feed me. And it worked. I began to function again. And as many of us found out, receiving the diagnosis is not only a cause of celebration with the answers to so many questions, asked and unasked, it also comes with loss, grief, devastation, fear for the future and lots of other things. In the end I also stopped going to the job centre. I just told them I’m not going in any more, it’s not helping me, I need to not leave my house at all. They didn’t sanction me and they’re making it so I don’t have to go in any more. When I need that time for total shut down, I am so committed to getting that time that I will not accept anything less but I also don’t put any conditions on it. If it meant living on the streets and eating out of bins I would have done it. And I think when you’re that committed to giving yourself what you need, everyone around you seems to cooperate without you having to verbalise it. I was too tired for that. And now I’m coming out of it with a clearer mind and heart. The effort was all worth it. 

Much love to you X 

In the end I also stopped going to the job centre. I just told them I’m not going in any more, it’s not helping me, I need to not leave my house at all. They didn’t sanction me and they’re making it so I don’t have to go in any more. When I need that time for total shut down, I am so committed to getting that time that I will not accept anything less but I also don’t put any conditions on it. If it meant living on the streets and eating out of bins I would have done it. And I think when you’re that committed to giving yourself what you need, everyone around you seems to cooperate without you having to verbalise it.

Golly!  You really must walk an exalted path, BlueRay.  How come you weren't sanctioned?  When I failed my ESA assessment, following my suicidal breakdown, they stopped all of my benefits dead.  I had nothing to pay rent or anything.  I nearly went under.  I appealed, so everything was reinstated - but then I had to go through all the stress of the appeal, and then later a tribunal.  All of it nearly finished me off.  I count myself lucky that it didn't, because it's finished off many thousands of other people.  When the DWP were finally forced to reveal the figures on sanctions deaths, it was shown that over a two-year period between 2012 and 2014, 2,380 people on ESA died within a fortnight of being told they'd been deemed fit for work and would lose the benefit. An horrific proportion were suicides.   But you're saying you simply went to the Job Centre and said 'I'm not coming in any more because it's not helping me', and they just happily went along with it?  Even though we hear countless stories all the time of people having JSA sanctions simply because they were half an hour late turning up to sign on, or didn't go because they were ill.  They clearly saw how committed you were to your shutdown, I suppose.  I also find it remarkable how light you make of living on the streets and eating out of bins - as if it's a valid and wonderful life experience.  Who are all these people, too, who magically co-operate when that happens?  All these friends you have?

The description of laws is accurate. However, the natural universal laws and the commandments that Jesus spoke of are irrefutable, they are like the laws of electricity, they are exact and precise. Jesus was wholly against anybody making oaths to anybody, ever. He said to do so, you cut off your connection to your true nature. 

The natural universal 'principles' as 'consolidations' Jesus spoke about for your father in the heavens that a 'covenant' (or agreement) be formed with God in principle, with the first being to honour/respect the wife of him and the Mother of you ~ by aspiring to firstly love the spirit of you in the heart of you, in the soul of you and in the mind of you. This is the greatest of the consolidations. And the second greatest likewise is ~ aspire to love the neighbour of you as doing so the self of you. For on the embodiment of these dual consolidations ~ all of the teaching suspends and the prophets.

Oaths yes are not too be made, wrong word session on my part there. Jesus was not though against people making covenants/agreements or consolidations/pledges/compacts/contracts/promises, but if one's promises are made in respect of god and humans ~ breaking those 'covenants' was not advisable. Consider for instance that Jesus said: "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's." Matthew 22:21. Or in other words pay dues to the Father of you in the heavens and to the Mother of you embodying the society of you upon the earth.

Keeping covenants strengthens the connection to the true nature of one as a human of earth (in terms of flesh) and a being of heaven (in terms of spirit) as living in harmony.

This universe could not continue if it was not run by laws. They are what makes a tulip seed into a tulip. They are the laws of cause and effect. This was the bulk of Einstein’s work, little of which was ever published. 

Recalling that 'Law is a system of rules that are created and enforced through social or governmental institutions to regulate behaviour. Law is a system that regulates and ensures that individuals or a community adhere to the will of the state.' - thus it is in stating that 'This universe could not continue if it was not run by laws.' you have done the absolute classic that involves societal governance running the universe. :-)

Of course humans have not been been around long enough for laws to have had anything to do with running the universe, and if they did the universe would not exist as there would be nothing to enable no one to discover nothing and to not state that nothing ran nothing! ;-)  

What makes a seed into a tulip is the principles of nature, e.g. energetic field frequencies and the geometric integrities of the atoms and molecules involved ~ which in terms of being 'recorded' systematic processes and only 'systematically recorded processes' we describe these as laws. Laws then are the descriptions of natural processes but laws are not the natural processes themselves. So basically the proofs of existential processes do not govern existence.

Yes?

As for man made laws, I have never and will never recognise them as little more than guidelines for people who don’t think for themselves, they have no meaning for me.

Aside from laws all being (hu)man(ly) made, mistaking laws or theories for principles is commonly and easily done, and you do recognise the laws of man ~ or you would not be using them to validate your statements, such as with Einstein's stuff for instance. 

I live by universal laws and because of that, I always get whatever I want in life, whenever I want it and man made laws have never got in my way. 

I live by or more concisely in universal love and wisdom myself, working with needs rather than so much wants, and being that the laws of society are to protect basic rights and freedoms, and to treat everyone fairly ~ they have not as such gotten in the way of me either, as they have been really helpful in numerous ways.

The description of laws is accurate. However, the natural universal laws and the commandments that Jesus spoke of are irrefutable, they are like the laws of electricity, they are exact and precise. Jesus was wholly against anybody making oaths to anybody, ever. He said to do so, you cut off your connection to your true nature. 

This universe could not continue if it was not run by laws. They are what makes a tulip seed into a tulip. They are the laws of cause and effect. This was the bulk of Einstein’s work, little of which was ever published. 

As for man made laws, I have never and will never recognise them as little more than guidelines for people who don’t think for themselves, they have no meaning for me. I live by universal laws and because of that, I always get whatever I want in life, whenever I want it and man made laws have never got in my way. 

I’m talking about the laws of relativity. That was only a fraction of his work and what he studied. 

I only really read a few of Einstein's theories as it goes ~ the relativity and a unified field stuff, at school in physics, and bits and pieces over the years regarding science in general. I was more influenced by Tesla towards the quantum super-positioning, correlation and entanglement related stuff via Bohr, Planck and Schrodinger etcetera ~ what with standard model of physics not quite accounting for what has been found to be going on, and all that involving String and Holofield Theory.

Yes, the universe works on principles but the principles work through the law. There has to be a law and that law is universal, not only to mankind but to the whole of the universe which man is not separate from, so it applies to man but not only to man. 

Not quite again, being that by definition: 'A law is a rule of action that is established by an authority ~ after the constant order of a particular phenomena has been observed or experimented with in nature.' in the scientific context according to the Chambers Dictionary I think it was.

Also from the sociological context according to Wikipedia on: 'Law is a system of rules that are created and enforced through social or governmental institutions to regulate behavior. Law is a system that regulates and ensures that individuals or a community adhere to the will of the state.'

The running theme obviously is that laws are for governing people in their actions or behaviour. 

But extending or projecting the notion that laws govern nature is a Roman Masoretic inheritance (not excluding others) involving the miss-transliteration of the five 'Consolidations' (as being pledges or oaths) mentioned by Jesus ~ to become the ten 'commandments' of the Masoretes (formally the Pharisees) rather than so much Moses or Jesus themselves actually therefore.

The Pharisees were really keen on editing out the Feminine from the sacred scrolls, and switching the spiritual for the material and thus the law of man replaced the 'teaching' or 'wisdom' of the wise Goddess about the loving God ~ for the sake of a wrathful god of jealousy and adoration greed.

Essentially in stating that law or laws are universal, you have as the expression goes "Put the Descartes (or the cart) before the horse" ~ as Descartes was infamous for mistaking his black for his white and thinking that because he thought he as such existed, rather than he existed and thereby thought ~ what with objects coming before subjects (in order to be named and identified) and nature (reproduction) coming before nurture (upbringing) and so fourth.

So the principles of nature give rise to the laws of (hu)man(ity) in concrete objective terms.  

and in a hostel for the homeless

Also spent time homeless 

I’m not talking about the laws of relativity. That was only a fraction of his work and what he studied. 

Yes, the universe works on principles but the principles work through the law. There has to be a law and that law is universal, not only to mankind but to the whole of the universe which man is not separate from, so it applies to man but not only to man. 

Einstein understood the laws but they are not his.

Not quite ~ the laws of (hu)man(ity) come from the 'principle' objects and states of affairs observed and experimented with repeatedly through nature, so Einstein's laws (such as Relativity and Special Relativity) are his as he published on them. There are no laws of nature though, only principles.

So there are the principles of nature, and the laws of (hu)man(ity).

I know the decision to leave the group was initially due to my autistic black and white thinking, but I also don’t feel as comfortable on here any more.

Well after what happened, I am in no way surprised at the moment that you do not feel comfortable talking as freely as you have before, very few people do when it comes to being treated disrespectfully regarding their individual outlook on life.

Such discomfort is meant 'not' in order to test us, but in order to 'rouse' us from our Autistic benightedness (or ignorance) about how to communicate in more socially amenable ways.

It helps to keep secure in mind that there are Conscious, Psychical, Mental and Physical languages and terms for relating with others, who are likewise familiar, or wish to learn. Thus there are four types of people who relate with these languages and terms, down to those who just use the Physical language base:

Type Fours (or T4s) have a developed sense of all experiential ranges of awareness, and use all language bases ~ so are Conscious, Psychical, Mental and Physical. T4s are by proportion enlightened Facilitators, and are the lesser minority of the population, at way less than 1%.

Type Threes (or T3s) have Conscious, Psychical, Mental and Physical awareness, and develop their Conscious range of experience for the more evolved, or else are more evolving their Psychical. Mental and Physical sensibilities. T3s are by proportion intuitional Leaders, and are the greater minority of the human population, at 9% approximately. 

Type Twos are (or T2s) have Conscious, Psychical, Mental and Physical awareness, and develop their Psychical range of experience, for the more evolved, or else are more evolving their Mental and Physical sensibilities. T2s are more by proportion conceptual Supporters, and are the lesser majority of the human population, at around 30% approximately.

Type Ones (or T1s) have Conscious, Psychical, Mental and Physical awareness, and develop their Mental range of experience, for the more evolved, or else are evolving more their Physical sensibilities. T1s are more by proportion instinctual Followers, and are the greater majority of the human population, at around 60% approximately.

So what you do know and can do (as a T3 to become a T4) is not possible for all (particularly T1s and T2s), and what you consider to be an adaptable state of mind (such as the previously mentioned poverty thing) is for most also an immutable state of actual body and environment ~ that is very concretely and very objectively real for them. Nothing they do can ever change that, T1s live and breath physical and material poverty as is their path through evolution ~ whether rich or poor, for they are the youngest of the 'Children of Humanity', and need providing for as Followers ~  hence T2s are Supporters, T3s are Leaders and T4s are Facilitators.

[Autism involves being at least a T3, although T3s can be more like T2s or T1s ~ consistently, or intermitently]

So when you stated that you get what you want to survive, it is lucky that what you want is actually what you 'need' in evolutional terms, and as such you are in harmony with the facilitational frequency of your life course ~ as has just included here a sociological clanger! I have had quite a few myself just like yours here ;-) and they are good to learn from, really they are, especially with others who can relate :-)

Learn from not run from maybe?

I wouldn’t dare, I’ve already been accused of being a witch who has magic powers and who thinks that all the people who aren’t witches are rubbish. I wouldn’t dare talk about them on here. I already feel as if I’ve been burned at the stake, hung drawn and quartered. I no longer feel safe. I built up a good level of trust and support on this site, over time,  enough to make me feel safe, only to be torn down big time so I won’t try that again. I just wrote a post about how I think, all be it very basic, but that might explain what you’re asking, in a little way, so I’ll post that. 

They’re not ‘Einstein’s’ laws though, anymore than the law of electricity belongs to the person who first discovered it. That person may have discovered it, but the laws of electricity are universal. Electricity is there for any one of us to take advantage of if we learn how it works, or get someone else to learn it and share the benefits with us, such as light, heat, power etc. We still get those things, even though we don’t know how they work, we still enjoy the benefits of the law of electricity even though we don’t understand every fine detail of them. Einstein understood the laws but they are not his. 

I think it’s probably permanently Deepthought. I know the decision to leave the group was initially due to my autistic black and white thinking, but I also don’t feel as comfortable on here any more. If I can’t talk freely, what is the point of talking, is my way of thinking? 

I was deliberately using that absolutist construction, Deepthought. 

I noticed, I have been following the patterns of development prior to and via your thread on Realism and Nominalism, to the full crystallisation of the Absolutism here, and thus my intervention with the Relationalism.

But you're quite right, and I would normally have written something less severe.

The basic problem was Black and White thinking, and as such using the Null Hypothesis, where Black registers as nothing or experientially negative and therefore being nonsense and disagreeable, and white registers as something or experientially positive and therefore is sensible and agreeable.

Consider for instance that Alice looks at Object A and describes a Square, and Bob looks at Object A also but describes a Rectangle. Object A is an Oblong ~ who then out of Alice and Bob is correct in terms of which shape they saw?

Two answers are that Alice is correct in describing a Rectangle on the grounds of who needs anything less? And Bob is correct in describing a Square on the grounds of who needs anything more?

So in terms of normally writing something less severe:

More along the lines of 'I believe this to be nonsense.'

At this stage the same message is being repeated as before ~ with the 'spearhead' of your statement still being the word 'nonsense'. Stating that something "more along the lines of" is actually more severe in linguistic spearheading terms.

Coming to terms with this interpretive glitch was very healthy indeed though ~ in the sense of noticing it as not being the healthier option. Another consideration for instance is "This is not making sense to me", yet you clocked it very well indeed as:

More like 'I don't believe this to be true for everyone.' 

Seriously Tom, absolute linguistic gold, seriously.

In terms of the "I believe this to be nonsense." as involves the darkest or most malevolent (ill-wishing) self of us; from which we learn what not to do, and in terms of "I don't believe this to be true for everyone." as involves the lightest or most benevolent (well-wishing) self of us, from which we learn what to do.

Thus as such you considered the 'nonsense' of the negative self, then the 'sense' of the positive self, and as such weighed up and balanced out as the neutral self.

Ker-ching!

I think indignation made me slip a little, too.

Well with your little slip of indignation with us, the Child-Parent dichotomy problem became a well and balanced Adult solution.

Perhaps you could start a post telling us about the Universal Laws of Einstein, so we can understand them too?

Thank you Tom. I’ve calmed down now and I know that the way I speak can provoke strong reactions in people, I just didn’t expect to receive the comments I did, but I’ve calmed down now. 

What I talk about are universal truths, proved scientifically by people like Einstein. What the public know about Einstein is very little compared to the work he was involved in which was learning more about the universal laws. 

I’m not saying people are settled and happy to be on the streets, although many are, for certain periods of time anyway while that is the best thing for them.  If I had been settled with it I’d still be there now, but complaining about it and thinking of it as a terrible situation doesn’t help anybody. It took me many years and several attempts to get off the streets, off the drugs but I kept on going until I achieved it. I was never ‘happy’ with the situation but my inner happiness which depends on nothing outside of me ensures that I am happy, truly happy, no matter what my circumstances are so when I’ve been homeless I have simply accepted that I am homeless just now and I would make the best of it. 

I might also take a rest. The conversations have been so helpful to me. The posts I started were to help me. I don’t always talk like that but that part was for me so I needed to talk openly. Everybody who contributed helped me more than they will probably ever know. 

I do know the universal laws. For whatever reason (I don’t try and work it out anymore) I was born with a connection to my spiritual self and the universe and I had no connection to my body. I’ve had to learn how to be human and although I’ve always got what I wanted in life, living in a world where nobody speaks your language (as many people with autism can relate to) is not always easy. However, my diagnosis changed all that and the recent conversations, although they didn’t end so well, have given me the confidence and the go ahead to be me. Not just as an autistic person but who I am, living on this different dimension, as well. 

You’ve got a book to write anyway, we’re all waiting for it to hit the shelves so we can get our copies

Perhaps Tom, it is you that needs to spend some time speaking with  people who are homeless.

I have spent several working years speaking to homeless people, in shelters, etc - or even simply of my own free will.  These people included my own father.  My response was provoked by my own such experiences.  In all of that time, and with all of the many people I've met, I've rarely met a person who wanted their homeless situation to continue, and felt somehow 'settled' with it - or who had accepted it openly and regarded it as a wonderful experience.  I certainly never met anyone who viewed sitting on a pavement as no different to sitting in a house.  Most would have given anything to get back to a situation where they had a roof over their heads, security, and an income of some form.  Many had mental health issues, which were often what had led them to the streets.  Many, too, had substance misuse issues to deal with.  Again, addictions had often led them to where they were.  And once you're on the street, such problems and issues very often get much worse.

Being a vulnerable person myself, I naturally identify with vulnerable people - and animals - and for over thirty years have been active in their behalf in many respects.  My life-commitment is to helping the vulnerable.  So when I read something - subjective, but presented as some kind of universal truth - that appears to trivialise their experience, then I react.

I accept that each person's experience of just about everything on earth is different.  So when I say 'appears to trivialise', I mean it subjectively.

I, too, hope you won't leave, BlueRay.  As someone who's also been a victim of bullying, I know what it's like to feel that you are in a hostile environment.  I'm sorry if you felt that my attitude was bullying.  Truly sorry.  I hope you can understand why I reacted the way I did.  I think it might be time for me to give things a rest, too.

Deepthought said:

One person's nonsense is another person's lived experience. So just as you find BlueRay's description nonsense, I have experienced much like it and in no way as a desperate homeless person. I was homeless and it was a matter of facts, and I paid diligent attention to the necessity of them, eating from skips, waking up in frozen clothes and so on and so on.

I was deliberately using that absolutist construction, Deepthought.  But you're quite right, and I would normally have written something less severe.  More along the lines of 'I believe this to be nonsense.'  In fact, I wouldn't even have said that.  More like 'I don't believe this to be true for everyone.'  I think indignation made me slip a little, too.

It’s ok Deepthought, I’m out of here

Well that would be nice if you meant only for the time being in the temporary sense perhaps?

It’s ok Deepthought, I’m out of here. I’ve never been met with so much hostility and name calling before in all my life. Like you, when I’ve been homeless I’ve been homeless, it’s a fact, and like you I accepted that fact and paid diligent attention to what I needed to do, I didn’t sit around crying about how terrible my life was. If I did that, I’d still be on the streets, I’d still be in and out of prison. Instead of crying about how terrible it is to be homeless I did something about it. 

Who is actually trying to ‘lead’ anybody?!?!?!? I’m assuming you’re referring to me and if so, I can assure you, I’m no leader, I am not trying to lead anybody. If anybody takes my musings, who takes what I do on here, i.e. sharing what’s going on in my head to try and get more understanding around my autism diagnosis, as me trying to lead them, I can only assume the person who takes my ramblings as that as somebody who is so desperately wanting to be lead that they confuse an autistic person sharing their experiences in the hope of gaining more awareness as somebody who is trying to lead them. I can’t see how anybody could take what I say as me trying to lead them anywhere. 

To ‘believe’ something, a person must doubt it otherwise why would they have to believe it. I would never get anybody to try to believe any thing, I can’t think of anything any more ridiculous. I admit I did the fake it to make it thing in AA, but I wasn’t actually ‘believing’ anything. 

And don’t worry, you won’t be subjected to any more of my comments, not that you ever were. If you don’t like talking to me why not just not read what I post?????? I think it’s disgusting that people read your post and if they don’t like it, instead of not interacting, they slate you. I don’t why NAS allow this but I will be asking for major enquiries into this. I have been bullied before but never like this. 

Perhaps Tom, it is you that needs to spend some time speaking with  people who are homeless. You seem to forget, I have lived on the streets, several times, I have friends who still live on the streets and I still talk to them and others. I speak to them as I speak on here and I have never received anywhere near close to the level of hostility that I have had directed at me from people on this forum. And it is not just ‘one’ man who died last week from exposure to the cold, only you don’t hear about the majority them, we do. Those of us who live on the streets or are still in communication/friendships/relationships with people living on the streets, we know when someone dies but their deaths rarely make the news, so you might hear about the odd one but we mourn, love and miss the ones you don’t even know exist. 

The stress of keeping appointments at the job centre is high for me, that’s why I’m not going anymore. The stress of meeting the appointments is not helping me move forwards. It’s nothing to do with whether they will pay me or not it is simply that if I don’t keep that appointment in my mind at all times, I am likely to miss it. And I don’t believe in magic, in fact, I don’t ‘believe’ in anything, I either know it or I don’t, where does belief fit into that? And don’t tell me I don’t know anything. If you have a cup of coffee, you don’t have to ‘believe’ that you can pick it up, put it to your mouth, and then drink the coffee. You know you can. I either know something to that level of certainty or I don’t know so there are way more things I don’t know, way more, but there are some things I do know. If I don’t know it and I want to know it, I will do everything I can to know it, but if I don’t need to know it then I’m happy not knowing. 

Yes, it does matter to many people where they sit because they give greater value to the thing they’re sitting on than to the act of sitting. And to many people in this country, they value a settee, for example, that has cost more ‘money’ as having greater value than a floor, for example, that they don’t directly pay for. Not realising that it’s the floor that is supporting their precious settee. 

You’re right. That is my reasoning, if I’m sitting I’m sitting, if I’m walking I’m walking, no matter what I’ve got on my feet. And yes, if I’m eating I’m eating. There may be a difference in the food I’m eating but the difference is in the food, I’m still eating regardless of what I’m eating. People give value and meaning to ‘things’ and it is the value and meaning they give to the thing that makes it different, not the thing itself. You can have two comfortable chairs, for example. One could cost more money to produce and a person who values money, who has made money into their god, will say the most expensive chair is the best one because to them, given their value system, their god, the most expensive one is logically the best one for them. They value money therefore they value the things they can buy with their money. But to me and many other people who are homeless, a bed is a bed whether it costs £10,000 or it’s one we get to sleep in in a hostel. But a person who values money, they won’t see it that way. They will think the higher priced bed is better and better still if it is placed inside a building that costs more money. A lavish mansion for example instead of a building to house the homeless. It’s all about your value system and the majority of my friends on the streets and the other people who are homeless that I talk to, have values closer to mine (love, people, friendships, kindness) as supposed to yours, money and what it can buy. I do not and have never said that is wrong, it is just different to my value system therefore conversations with me require some patience and time to be mutually understood. I get that on the streets. Maybe because they’re not so obsessed worrying about making money or getting money from the government so they are able to take the time to really listen and hear what I’m saying and visa versa. I’d rather finish a conversation than rush off somewhere to give devotion to my god of money by going to do a job so I can get more of it or to the job centre to make sure they give me more of it. I’d rather just finish and enjoy my conversation because that is more benefit to me because I connect to people, not money, not their title, their job, their status in society, the size of their house or even if they have a house at all, I treat people all the same regardless of the ‘labels’ or their differences. 

My thoughts are precisely that, ‘my’ thoughts!!!! That’s why I started to make a disclaimer at the beginning of my posts because I got the impression that people didn’t realise that so I thought I needed to make it clear. I’ve never had to make that clear to people, people I usually speak to know my thoughts are my thoughts, I don’t have to tell them. They’re usually so far removed from theirs that they wouldn’t need telling, they have no confusion around that. Most people don’t even understand my thoughts so they know they’re mine and not theirs. Maybe it’s an autistic thing  to need to be reminded that when I speak I am speaking from my thoughts, but actually that’s not true, I don’t have to tell the people at my group, before I speak, that these are my thoughts!!! I don’t have to make that announcement, they just know. I have NEVER told anyone how to feel ~ that’s such a ridiculous thought to me that I barely know how to respond. How can one human tell another how to think??? 

Perhaps you should think a little more about the way you speak Tom? My friends run into the hundreds and I’m not just talking superficial friendships, I’m talking about real friendships. I have homeless people who would give me their last penny, in fact they have. Only you can say if your thinking is faulty. I love everybody. That is my thinking and as a result, I have hundreds of loving, kind, considerate friends who would do almost anything for me. They say I’m brutally honest, I speak my mind and they like that, because whether they like what I say, whether they understand it, whether it upsets them or makes them happy, it doesn’t matter, they trust me to tell them my honest thoughts etc, they know I won’t shy away from that through fear or offending or upsetting them. People come to me when they have a problem because they know they’ll leave without it. I speak now as I always have, the same as when I was a child and this is the first place I have ever been met with so much hostility. And nobody can say it’s aitistic people because the people at my group love me and I’ve only been going there since November. Some of them look out for me and their faces light up when I walk in. So I don’t think I need to change the way I speak, only the people I speak to. I have never in my life been met with so much hostility, even people on Facebook and YouTube will stick with the conversation long enough to understand where I’m coming from. Not to try to think like me, nobody wants that, but to understand my world, where I’m coming from, and sometimes that helps them, sometimes it doesn’t, it’s not supposed to ‘help’ them, it’s a conversation, it’s about understanding each other, it’s called diversity. Most people marvel at my mind without ever so much as ever wanting to even begin to understand it and that doesn’t create a barrier to communication, it actually helps. It’s exhausting for me sometimes to keep explaining myself and fortunately, I have many friends who haven’t got a clue what I’m talking about and they don’t need to, or want to, and we  have a great time. They just make it clear, when they want to talk about somebody, complain or just be negative in general, that I must not say a word until they’ve finished and even then I can’t comment and I don’t. They enjoy that and I would never want to stop a person’s enjoyment. They just tell me to shut it, and I do. There’s no hostility, we’re friend’s and even though their love is conditional, they love me just as much as I love them and it’s the love that bonds us, not where we live, what job we do, how big our eyes are, how much make up we wear, how much money we have, how much we are the same. All my friends are different. Yes, they have clusters, that’s natural, but we are all the same underneath. I have friends who are millionaires, one is in his 20’s and will soon be a billionaire, I have friends in jail, on the streets, heroin addicts, friends who are doctors, dentists, psychiatrists, etc, friends who work in government, finance, friends who don’t work at all. None of those differences matter, it’s the person underneath all that that counts (to me), and that’s who I talk to. No person is wrong. Every person is beautiful, precious and loved so much by me, I would never want to change any one of them, I love diversity, it makes the world so colourful and wonderful. I don’t have to change the way I talk, it’s acceptable to all my friends, and strangers, I just need to change who I speak to. I will speak to most people, my only exception is where there is hostility. I’m very sensitive and hostile environments have no benefit to me so you don’t have to worry or try and control the way I talk any more, I’m out of here. I’m going to answer any last posts I care to answer then I’ll be gone. I’ll check in now and again just incase (Orinoco I think it was) has any questions on the process I gave them but I won’t be reading posts or contributing. 

I'm sorry, BlueRay, but I can't help it on this occasion.  This is nonsense.  Not only that, but many desperate homeless people would find it extremely insensitive at best and grossly offensive at worst.

One person's nonsense is another person's lived experience. So just as you find BlueRay's description nonsense, I have experienced much like it and in no way as a desperate homeless person. I was homeless and it was a matter of facts, and I paid diligent attention to the necessity of them, eating from skips, waking up in frozen clothes and so on and so on.

I'm sorry, BlueRay, but I can't help it on this occasion.  This is nonsense.  Not only that, but many desperate homeless people would find it extremely insensitive at best and grossly offensive at worst.

One person's nonsense is another person's lived experience. So just as you find BlueRay's description nonsense, I have experienced much like it and in no way as a desperate homeless person. I was homeless and it was a matter of facts, and I paid diligent attention to the necessity of them, eating from skips, waking up in frozen clothes and so on and so on.

Thank you and yes, I have definitely had a baptism of fire, according to your description. 

When I was talking freely (the posts that attracted all the flack), I wasn’t looking for understanding from anybody else. When I wrote those posts, they were for me, to help me understand me. I was talking out loud, or rather writing my thoughts as they were happening and they had the desired affect. Although my posts obviously pressed a few buttons in others, they helped me get clear about me and that was the sole purpose of them. 

I am able to communicate well with all people at all different levels of consciousness and awareness, it is my strong point in my work as a social worker and working with people with so called severe mental health needs but my recent writings were for me. That’s why I said I wasn’t looking for understand from others, it didn’t matter if nobody read what I wrote, they were for me and they helped me considerably. 

I have however, thoroughly enjoyed our conversations so yes, thank you, it’s been a real pleasure. 

Yeah, I learned some huge lessons, not least dissolving the habit of running away.

The old freeze, flight or flight behaviourisms teach much about personal integrity, and as much as one turns tail and runs from something, the more headlong one runs into that something. Everything comes from source and everything goes back to source.

It’s been like a baptism of fire ~ I think! Lol! I don’t really understand what that means but it feels right although I could be totally wrong.

A baptism of fire burns away the darkness (or polarisation) of the soul, to have then reborn the light of one's spiritual sole, the all seeing I of enlightenment, intuition and prophecy, and vitalising the seven selves and living as such in harmony as much in heaven as upon earth.

But basically most take it too mean something along the lines of grinding off ones rough edges, and finishing off one's faceted surfaces (or maskings) by way of really hard work. A soldiers first battle, a doctor or nurses first medical emergency and so on and so fourth. 

Thanks for the info on the types.

Glad to have been of some service. :-)

I can talk to all types but sometimes I just want to talk as me.

Well remove the maskings of verbal ignorance, reveal the architectures of spoken wisdom, and embody in this way more also universal love.

I don’t expect anybody to understand me and neither do I particularly want to but it was fun while it lasted, talking my language.

You do not expect others to understand you, nor do you want particularly to understand yourself either (?) ~ or else you are not particularly concerned with being understood?

Considering that Language is ~ 'the method of human communication, either spoken or written, consisting of the use of words in a structured and conventional way' ~ and is first 'shared' in terms of mimicking speech (mum and dad etc) and then shared again in terms of speaking them with others (family and friends etc), rather than as being individually owned, i.e. your language.

It appears more that you have 'needed' to write according to your choice of and your familiarity with using words, as a process of therapeutic release and individuation ~ rather than so much at first for an interest in the structural conventions (i.e. laws) of language, as used and recognised more generally, or specifically, by others. Yet we have been discussing the latter concern none the less and all more at least so far, and rapture of raptures using spiritual philosophy too (with philosophy meaning a comprehensive understanding and understanding being experiential knowledge). My favourite flavour ~ thank you, very much appreciated. :-)

I lined up a couple of times to go and sleep there but the talk from the others who were lining up, put me off and I had a system of sleeping in the day and walking the streets at night, which I decided I would stick to. That felt safer to me and I had some good places to sleep in the day, such as pubs and I think I was more visible this way, meaning people realised I was homeless and so they would feed me, let me get a shower at their house etc. So I’ve been in hostels as a visitor (my auntie used to work in one) and in other capacities but as for me sleeping in one, my preferred method was to walk the streets at night and that just felt like a better option to me. Plus I didn’t want to line up every night at a certain time just to get in. 

Oh yeah, my support worker is working with me to hammer that word ‘never’ out of me. It was all going well until last Friday then I screamed  ‘I’m NEVER going back to my autism group and I’m NEVER going back on the autism site! Lol! 

I am such a typical text book case aspie it’s untrue, but I love it although I have been doing much better since minimising my use of the word ‘never’. My black and white thinking is getting better by the day as well.

I’ve always been a nomad and I think I always will be.  I took a few years out because my son (little weirdo! Lol) wanted to go to school!!!! It didn’t matter what I tried to do to convince him that I’m sure he’d have more fun coming with me, he wanted to go so he started when he was 6. I thought he might go for a while then get bored of it but he didn’t get fed up till the last year. He was all set to get high grades and go to uni and by that time came he’d had enough ~ at last, I thought, allauya! 

I never went to hostels. I didn’t feel safe in them, I felt safer on the streets

Interesting statement, being that you 'never' went to hostels ~ yet you did not feel safe 'in' them?

Nice example of Autistic Black and White Thinking ~ i.e, the first part of the sentence that you 'never' went to hostels; is contradicted by the second part that you did not feel safe 'in' them.

Is it perhaps that you did not 'use' hostels because of not feeling safe when you had been in them as a visitor, or that you never actually went to one because of not feeling comfortable about using them?

In my case, I seriously needed to experience the individuality of me singularly and freely, and using hostels involved rules and collective conformity with others. Being nomadic for me meant that there was no need or imperative to be with others, nor to interact with them.

Yeah, I learned some huge lessons, not least dissolving the habit of running away. 

It’s been like a baptism of fire ~ I think! Lol! I don’t really understand what that means but it feels right although I could be totally wrong. 

Thanks for the info on the types. I can talk to all types but sometimes I just want to talk as me. I don’t expect anybody to understand me and neither do I particularly want to but it was fun while it lasted, talking my language. 

I never went to hostels. I didn’t feel safe in them, I felt safer on the streets. 

. said:

Also spent time homeless 

and

. said:

and in a hostel for the homeless

I never did the hostel thing myself as I was too unsettled. Staying in one place did not really happen until I found my footing, which is to say where I felt most grounded, and got on the emergency housing list. Then I found a place advertised the next day in a paper ~ and the landlord turned out to be someone I used to know. He did not recognise me at first, but it was well amusing when he did, because he was really pleased and surprised ~ and memoirs and laughter aplenty did flow. He was a genius chess player type, and I had a mega bonus playing chess with him on a regular basis.

One thing I did have trouble with was that I was so used to sleeping on hard floors; that it took me a year and half's practice before I could sleep on a soft bed again.

Did you find the hostel thing to be okay?

and in a hostel for the homeless

Also spent time homeless 

I know the decision to leave the group was initially due to my autistic black and white thinking, but I also don’t feel as comfortable on here any more.

Well after what happened, I am in no way surprised at the moment that you do not feel comfortable talking as freely as you have before, very few people do when it comes to being treated disrespectfully regarding their individual outlook on life.

Such discomfort is meant 'not' in order to test us, but in order to 'rouse' us from our Autistic benightedness (or ignorance) about how to communicate in more socially amenable ways.

It helps to keep secure in mind that there are Conscious, Psychical, Mental and Physical languages and terms for relating with others, who are likewise familiar, or wish to learn. Thus there are four types of people who relate with these languages and terms, down to those who just use the Physical language base:

Type Fours (or T4s) have a developed sense of all experiential ranges of awareness, and use all language bases ~ so are Conscious, Psychical, Mental and Physical. T4s are by proportion enlightened Facilitators, and are the lesser minority of the population, at way less than 1%.

Type Threes (or T3s) have Conscious, Psychical, Mental and Physical awareness, and develop their Conscious range of experience for the more evolved, or else are more evolving their Psychical. Mental and Physical sensibilities. T3s are by proportion intuitional Leaders, and are the greater minority of the human population, at 9% approximately. 

Type Twos are (or T2s) have Conscious, Psychical, Mental and Physical awareness, and develop their Psychical range of experience, for the more evolved, or else are more evolving their Mental and Physical sensibilities. T2s are more by proportion conceptual Supporters, and are the lesser majority of the human population, at around 30% approximately.

Type Ones (or T1s) have Conscious, Psychical, Mental and Physical awareness, and develop their Mental range of experience, for the more evolved, or else are evolving more their Physical sensibilities. T1s are more by proportion instinctual Followers, and are the greater majority of the human population, at around 60% approximately.

So what you do know and can do (as a T3 to become a T4) is not possible for all (particularly T1s and T2s), and what you consider to be an adaptable state of mind (such as the previously mentioned poverty thing) is for most also an immutable state of actual body and environment ~ that is very concretely and very objectively real for them. Nothing they do can ever change that, T1s live and breath physical and material poverty as is their path through evolution ~ whether rich or poor, for they are the youngest of the 'Children of Humanity', and need providing for as Followers ~  hence T2s are Supporters, T3s are Leaders and T4s are Facilitators.

[Autism involves being at least a T3, although T3s can be more like T2s or T1s ~ consistently, or intermitently]

So when you stated that you get what you want to survive, it is lucky that what you want is actually what you 'need' in evolutional terms, and as such you are in harmony with the facilitational frequency of your life course ~ as has just included here a sociological clanger! I have had quite a few myself just like yours here ;-) and they are good to learn from, really they are, especially with others who can relate :-)

Learn from not run from maybe?

I think it’s probably permanently Deepthought. I know the decision to leave the group was initially due to my autistic black and white thinking, but I also don’t feel as comfortable on here any more. If I can’t talk freely, what is the point of talking, is my way of thinking? 

I was deliberately using that absolutist construction, Deepthought. 

I noticed, I have been following the patterns of development prior to and via your thread on Realism and Nominalism, to the full crystallisation of the Absolutism here, and thus my intervention with the Relationalism.

But you're quite right, and I would normally have written something less severe.

The basic problem was Black and White thinking, and as such using the Null Hypothesis, where Black registers as nothing or experientially negative and therefore being nonsense and disagreeable, and white registers as something or experientially positive and therefore is sensible and agreeable.

Consider for instance that Alice looks at Object A and describes a Square, and Bob looks at Object A also but describes a Rectangle. Object A is an Oblong ~ who then out of Alice and Bob is correct in terms of which shape they saw?

Two answers are that Alice is correct in describing a Rectangle on the grounds of who needs anything less? And Bob is correct in describing a Square on the grounds of who needs anything more?

So in terms of normally writing something less severe:

More along the lines of 'I believe this to be nonsense.'

At this stage the same message is being repeated as before ~ with the 'spearhead' of your statement still being the word 'nonsense'. Stating that something "more along the lines of" is actually more severe in linguistic spearheading terms.

Coming to terms with this interpretive glitch was very healthy indeed though ~ in the sense of noticing it as not being the healthier option. Another consideration for instance is "This is not making sense to me", yet you clocked it very well indeed as:

More like 'I don't believe this to be true for everyone.' 

Seriously Tom, absolute linguistic gold, seriously.

In terms of the "I believe this to be nonsense." as involves the darkest or most malevolent (ill-wishing) self of us; from which we learn what not to do, and in terms of "I don't believe this to be true for everyone." as involves the lightest or most benevolent (well-wishing) self of us, from which we learn what to do.

Thus as such you considered the 'nonsense' of the negative self, then the 'sense' of the positive self, and as such weighed up and balanced out as the neutral self.

Ker-ching!

I think indignation made me slip a little, too.

Well with your little slip of indignation with us, the Child-Parent dichotomy problem became a well and balanced Adult solution.

Deepthought said:

One person's nonsense is another person's lived experience. So just as you find BlueRay's description nonsense, I have experienced much like it and in no way as a desperate homeless person. I was homeless and it was a matter of facts, and I paid diligent attention to the necessity of them, eating from skips, waking up in frozen clothes and so on and so on.

I was deliberately using that absolutist construction, Deepthought.  But you're quite right, and I would normally have written something less severe.  More along the lines of 'I believe this to be nonsense.'  In fact, I wouldn't even have said that.  More like 'I don't believe this to be true for everyone.'  I think indignation made me slip a little, too.

It’s ok Deepthought, I’m out of here

Well that would be nice if you meant only for the time being in the temporary sense perhaps?

It’s ok Deepthought, I’m out of here. I’ve never been met with so much hostility and name calling before in all my life. Like you, when I’ve been homeless I’ve been homeless, it’s a fact, and like you I accepted that fact and paid diligent attention to what I needed to do, I didn’t sit around crying about how terrible my life was. If I did that, I’d still be on the streets, I’d still be in and out of prison. Instead of crying about how terrible it is to be homeless I did something about it.