The greatest act of violence

For me, the greatest act of violence that any man can ever commit on this planet earth, is to declare, I am a Christian, or I am a Muslim or I am an atheist, or whatever they say they are, and really believe it. That hurts me so much. It immediately makes everyone who is not, a Christian, for example, someone other than them. They are not part of their tribe, their people, they are people who fall outside of their circle of love and protection. This then makes it easy to bring harm to these other beings, because that harm doesn’t effect them. But if someone in their tribe were harmed, by somebody outside of the tribe, they feel that hurt. They will come out and fight for them. They will even kill this other person, who is not in their tribe, if necessary. It also means that they can harm and kill people within their tribe, if they don’t follow the rules of their tribe. If every man loves his fellow man as he loves himself, he would hurt if any one of his brothers were hurt, because it would be like he was hurting. In times of tragedy, such as the bomb attack or whatever it was in Paris in 2015, people quickly forgot their idea of who they were and they pulled together to support each other, to support their fellow brothers and sisters. They brought humanity down to a single point, to the fact that we all have life, we are all people and regardless of how we chose to live our lives, we are all humans and they decided we’ll stand together, regardless of our differences. Meet up groups came about after the event in New York. It seems that when something big happens, people lose their bigness and their differences and embrace their sameness. What is this sameness and why is it only embraced when some big tragedy happens? What makes people want to separate themselves from others in the first place? Why do they think they have to tolerate others? What makes them think that they are any different from them? Sure we’ve all got our likes and dislikes, our preferences, the things we are drawn to and things that repel us. So that makes us all the same doesn’t it? If we all liked the same things, if we all were good at the same things, wanted the same things etc, wouldn’t we be more like robots? Can’t we all just like what we want and if we find someone who is disagreeable to us, simply avoid them? Or if we find something we don’t enjoy doing which has little to no value to us, simply just not do it? We’ve all taken on, to some degree, the values and beliefs of those around us. Some keep those values and beliefs, without question, all of their lives. This is good. This is how we build the traditions and practices that we all love. Some decide to question the beliefs and values and some will keep them or reject them, or maybe they’ll chop and change between the two all of their lives. Never gaining any solid ground.

What is it that we all have, that is unchanging, for the duration of our lives, that is solid and reliable and therefore trustworthy? It is life. We all have life, if we are alive on this planet; we have life, that much is evident. It’s the thing that connects all of us. As we come into this world, we start to learn and name and shape this thing we call life, into specific things we can all recognise. This is good. It allows for the building of a form of communication that we can all use to communicate with each other. We start to attach meaning to things. Such as this human who gave birth to me in this human form is my mother and we give meaning to that. It’s an important role, we should love our mothers, look up to them, do what they tell us to do. This becomes a fixed idea that most people never think about let alone question and explore. And if they find that they’re unfortunate enough to get a mother who they don’t even like, who they don’t want to follow, then they can struggle with having love for them. They know they must love their mother. Everybody knows that. Therefore, if they feel hate towards her, because she’s just beaten them, they must naturally conclude that they are bad. Then they can see that of course it stands to reason that they’re bad. Their mother, this most holy of creatures, wouldn’t hit them if they weren’t bad, because mothers are good, so yes, definitely, they must be bad. Traditions, shared understandings, differences etc, are all well and good, so long as each person knows, that underneath all these meanings and labels and words that we attach to people and things, is life and these words and labels and meanings are simply tools to help us communicate with each other. They are not there to separate but rather to unite us. If none of us had a way of communicating with each other, the human race would not advance and life seeks always to express itself. So we found a way to communicate, but that communication and the meanings we give to things, seem to have taken importance over who we are, over what it was intended for. It was intended to bring us together but instead it separates us. Until there’s a big enough tragedy, that is. Is it a tragedy if it brings people back together? If it gets people looking out for each other, supporting each other, risking their own lives for each other and even giving their last penny to help each other. Dissolving instantly, the superficial differences people ordinarily cling onto to so fiercely, so aggressively, so violently. I wonder if it’s a tragedy at all? Of course for those who’s lives were lost, we can say it’s a tragedy but could it be said that it’s an even greater tragedy if we repeat it again, and again and again. We will never get the violence and the wars to stop through violence and wars. And we’ll never get them to stop by trying to get everyone to see eye to eye. That’s never going to happen and would we even really want that? But if everyone loved his fellow man as if he loved himself, the life force within him that connects him to every human being out there, there would be no reason to quarrel or fall out with anybody, not to the degree you would want to harm or take that person’s life. If you love your brothers as yourself, you know that if you steal from another, you are cheating yourself. If you hurt another, you are hurting yourself. And every act is proceeded by a thought therefore if you harm another you must first harm yourself, you have to first have a harmful thought. And who does that thought hurt the most? If I think harmful thoughts I am not free and happy to enjoy the moment, I am busy plotting and hurting and dragging my spirits down in preparation to do the same damage to some body else, with any luck. If we can inflict more hurt on the other person than we are experiencing (as the effect of our own thoughts) then we shall be declared victorious. We can revel in and feel proud that now they are hurting more than us, we are the winners. Is this what winning at life means? Who can hurt the most? Or who can gather unto him the most physical possessions including money and sometimes including power over people. If you can control more people does that make you the winner? I don’t know. I know people seem to like and fiercely protect the idea of conditional love as the highest attainment in life. They love to tell the world how much they love this person or that as if the highest award in life is to love fiercely but to love exclusively. The more exclusive the love the more valuable and important it is and often times, everyone else can go to hell. I know there’s deep value and comfort in human or conditional love and it has a way of expressing itself that universal love/life never could. It’s needed, it’s necessary, but it isn’t the meaning of life. I don’t think we were put on this earth to be separated. We are all individual expressions of the one life, we are not in competition with each other, we don’t have to kill each other for a better life, wouldn’t it just be easier to avoid someone you didn’t like rather than killing them? Maybe that’s just me, I know I’m weird, but I haven’t, so far, found any real sense in murder and fighting, rather I think that life should be a joyful adventure with all the twists and turns and ups and downs along the way. Millions of minds and lives all working towards the same goal, to simply enjoy a happy life. If we all enjoyed ourselves there would be no room to hurt somebody. When you’re involved in enjoying yourself, why would you suddenly stop, and think, let me just kill a few people then get back to my enjoyment? If somebody came along that you didn’t like, you’d just think I’m gonna avoid that fella, I don’t like him and can’t enjoy myself when I’m around him, so I’ll just avoid him because I like to enjoy myself. Why not keep it simple? Of course those with all the human power don’t want that. A long held tried and tested practice is to divide and conquer at all costs and use fear to weaken people so they’re easier to control. But they can’t control us without our consent. But we can give them that consent because the alternative might mean death. But what is a man who has no free will, no choice in life? Is he not just an animal, following orders? What is a man without choice? What makes a man different to a pig, for example, or a sheep? Is it not the power to chose? Must we only chose between certain options that some other mortal man has decided we can have? Does our soul belong to him? He will tell us what we can and cannot do. What does he have that we don’t? Human power. But there is a power far greater than that which man can summon up. His best chance (man made power) is to install fear in people, to divide, then conquer. Is this in line with our true nature? To live in fear of our fellow man? Does it feel good to live in fear. Does fear present opportunities and possibilities, beyond our imagination, or does love do that? Do you feel more energised and open and free when you are dancing with love or drowning in fear? Is fear our natural state or is it just a great tool to keep us from harm that somebody decided they could use to their advantage? The good news is, when you are at once connected to that infinite power within you, that thing called life, then you see love everywhere. You see behind the masks of fear or greed or what other thing has caught the attention of that person and married them so securely to it. Sometimes, you can even wash it away by loves presence alone. Love has the power to stop a quarrel instantly, if it is untainted, and the quarrellers have no idea of what just happened. They don’t need to. If you tell most people about the power of love, they just laugh, and tell you, love is no match for this great president or that great leader. How do they know? They never gave it a chance. It’s not an easy thing to try. It goes against the grain. Against what society teaches us. To love all people? Never. I’ve never heard anything so absurd, they’ll say. I would never love that man, he wears a pink shirt and besides, men can’t love men, it’s just not right. 

Parents
  • Doesn't the fact that we're all here on this forum mean that we too are identifying with a group, a group that is separate from the whole?

  • Yes, of course, but we don’t think we’re the group. The group isn’t seperate from the whole, it’s just that we have particular traits that we all identify with, but we’re not our traits. They aren’t the cause of separation. 

  • I've heard / heard of many people with autism become annoyed / irritated / whatever with things said by people about autism. Many identifying with the group and seeing themselves as part of it and insulted / annoyed / irritated by association. It's the same as anyone else who identifies with any other group. 

    It also seems to be a recurring theme that 'we' talk about 'we' versus non-autistic.

    Autism / it's traits are very much the cause of a feeling a "separation" from non-autistic from just about every post on this site! 

  • My body and brain physically exist.

    The experience of being 'me' doesn't exist except as an experience.

    Once the chemical reactions that cause the experience of being 'me' stop, 'me' doesn't exist anymore.

    The physical body continues to exist only until the process of decay is complete. 

    The products of this physical decay end up in other physical things, such as the soil or in ash or in teeth but they have nothing to do with 'me'.

    My physical DNA may be extracted from those teeth thousands of years after i die but that is nothing to do with the 'me' that I experience either. That DNA can probably tell a future scientist that I had the physical capacity to smile, or love, but not what would have made 'me' smile or love or how those things would have been experienced by 'me'.      

  • So you’re saying you don’t exist? 

    Then you’re saying you do exist, but inside the body?

    You also say that you are chemistry and so when it stops, that’s the end of your life because you are the chemistry is that right? 

    But even though you as the chemical die, the body still continues to live but only in the soil until what? Until those chemicals die as well one day? 

  • No, I'm saying that 'me' and my thoughts are just experiences. Neither 'exists' as a concrete entity.

    The brain and the body are concrete entities that enable the experience of 'me', they're just the container it all happens in. Once the chemistry stops (an as yet unidentified 'end-point' but we've chosen many over the years) 'me' stops existing. 

    The energy / chemical reactions continue of course in the cells of the physical body and are recycled back into the soil, the air, whatever.  

  • It sounds like you’re saying you are your thoughts? 

  • Hmmm, interesting. I suppose all of the people etc. on the planet (elsewhere?) that I've never physically met or interacted with don't exist - for me. But I'll assume they're there, somewhere, existing in a physical sense, I just don't 'feel' anything one way or another about them. Their existence is just an interesting fact, I suppose. 

    I've never met an atom either but I do assume / believe they exist. I've never been on the London Eye but I assume / believe it exists. These people, or the London Eye, might even feature in a conversation I have about events I've heard of but they're not things I 'feel' anything about, I wouldn't particularly care if I was told tomorrow that they no longer existed at all. It would just be another interesting fact I'd heard. 

    I don't believe the 'energy' we call life has any intelligence of it's own. 

    You asked where am 'I' while my mind is "having these mental experiences". I beleive 'I' am just an experience of my mind. There is no 'real me', the experience of being me is just something my mind creates. Me, my mind, my experiences, thoughts, feelings, emotions etc. etc. are all just chemical reactions in the physical brain. I feel 'real' to me, but so does my experience of colour and space and time and none of those things are singularly 'real' in a concrete way either, I believe. 

    Love is just one such experience born of feeling close to someone else through shared physical experiences: choosing to spend more time with that person because it makes us both feel good, sharing interests etc. All of these things fire neurons in the 'right' way at the 'right' time and that feeling is called 'Love'.

    It's 'directed' or 'nurtured' I guess by choosing to spend more time with that person. It builds up over time and ends up encomassing shared memories and a sense of 'we' that makes it feel deeper / stronger over time. It is just an illusion though, as in it's not a concrete thing - just an experience. Finding out that the loved one of 20-years has been having a secret affair for 15 of these years (or some other similar revelation) is enough to shatter that illusion and then the 'Love' dissolves like the illusion it always was.

    So, Yes. Inasmuch as I choose who to spend time with / spend time on, I choose who I love. Once spending time with / on that person is no longer enjoyable, the 'Love' evaporates like the illusion it always was. It's a nice illusion though, otherwise people wouldn't buy into it. Me included. Love is just a pleasant chemical reaction, like all feelings / emotions / experiences (although some are not so pleasant of course).        

  • Does this energy have any intelligence? 

    You say you have mental experiences ~ I’m not sure what you mean by that? And if they are seperate from you, where are you while your mind is having these mental experiences, assuming mental experiences occur in your mind? 

    Are you saying love is a feeling? It’s not clear. You simply describe it as a side effect of your mental experiences, which I’m not clear about yet from your description. 

    I’m just trying to understand what you’re saying. You’re saying that love, this side effect of mental experience, is active. You do it. How do you do it? How do you direct or nurture it? When you interact with certain people, you suddenly feel it. Is that because it was already there but you only feel it when you interact with somebody or is it that it wasn’t there but when you interact with some body it somehow comes to you? It’s a little unclear to me. What would a person have to do to make you feel the love when you interact with them? 

    Are you saying that as far as you’re concerned, only the people you interact with that enable you to feel love exist, that anybody else, as far as your concerned doesn’t exist, to the point that you’ve never even thought of them? Do you actually know that other people, beyond these people you have this side effect called love thing with, even exist? I don’t understand? 

  • For me, life is energy. Simply the energy imparted from the particles that make up my physical bits. These particles come together, their energies mix, life! Just a chemical reaction.

    Love is just a side effect of my mental experiences, which are themselves shaped by the physical and chemical architecture of my brain. It's not a 'real' tangiable thing, just an experience. 

    To me, it's an active experience. It's something I 'do' or feel I can 'direct' or 'nurture' in some way. I feel love for certain people I interact with as a reaction to our shared experiences.

    The rest of the world, especially people I've never met, I don't actively feel anything at all for. Not love, like, dislike, nothing at all because I have never interacted with them and likely never thought of them at all.      

  • If you know this, then how is it possible to not love with all your heart every other living person on this planet? 

    When I say your body. I mean your body, mind, your name, your gender, your sense of humour, your job, all of these things are related to the body. 

    What is life? 

  • Yes, I believe i m autistic but neither I nor anyone else on here that I've read has ever said that's all they were - certainly none have said they weren't alive! (Or didn't have life inside them.)

    I don't think I've actually ever encountered anyone who only identifies as one single thing. I can understand only identifying as one single thing at a time, for a single moment or maybe a single activity, but even then we haven't stopped identifying as all of the other things we feel / know we are. We're simply only concentrating on one of them at that moment.   

  • Yes, that’s exactly what I’m talking about. 

    When somebody declares, I’m autistic, and believes that they are autistic and nothing else... ~ I used the example of religions but it could be anything, I’m black, or white, or fat or whatever. But we’ll go with autism.

    So if somebody declares, I’m autistic ~ meaning that they are simply this body, it’s autustic, I also have my own personality etc, I’m male or female, I’m short of tall, but mainly I identify as autistic. I’m autistic. 

    If they think that that is all that they are then that is where the separation lies. 

    Your true nature is love. Love can be called life, infinite intelligence, god, infinite source. Whatever you want to call it, it doesn’t matter. We each have in us something which is the same in everyone. It is with us for the whole of our lives. It never changes. Never ceases. It is always there in everyone of us and it’s life. 

    We each have this one thing called life. This life is part of the greater whole. But it resides in and is each one of us. It’s like we are all each an individual expression of the one whole. 

    This thing called life, which is in all of us, is what unites us. Our outer or physical identities are an expression of this life but we all express ourselves in our own unique ways. For example, some are men and they might be great chess players. Or they might be women who are autistic. 

    These are who we are as our outer expressions. Yes, our bodies are part of us but we are more than our bodies. 

    Autism and it’s traits appear to be the cause of separation but the cause of separation is when you deny that life is also part of who you are and in fact it’s the main element of who you are because without it, you would be dead. If you deny who you are and believe you are the body only you create instant separation and then the hunt is on to find others like you. And you’ll gather like a tribe and you’ll protect each other, gain confidence from each other through identification and it will be you against them ~ i.e. anybody who isn’t autistic. Because you believe your autistic. 

Reply
  • Yes, that’s exactly what I’m talking about. 

    When somebody declares, I’m autistic, and believes that they are autistic and nothing else... ~ I used the example of religions but it could be anything, I’m black, or white, or fat or whatever. But we’ll go with autism.

    So if somebody declares, I’m autistic ~ meaning that they are simply this body, it’s autustic, I also have my own personality etc, I’m male or female, I’m short of tall, but mainly I identify as autistic. I’m autistic. 

    If they think that that is all that they are then that is where the separation lies. 

    Your true nature is love. Love can be called life, infinite intelligence, god, infinite source. Whatever you want to call it, it doesn’t matter. We each have in us something which is the same in everyone. It is with us for the whole of our lives. It never changes. Never ceases. It is always there in everyone of us and it’s life. 

    We each have this one thing called life. This life is part of the greater whole. But it resides in and is each one of us. It’s like we are all each an individual expression of the one whole. 

    This thing called life, which is in all of us, is what unites us. Our outer or physical identities are an expression of this life but we all express ourselves in our own unique ways. For example, some are men and they might be great chess players. Or they might be women who are autistic. 

    These are who we are as our outer expressions. Yes, our bodies are part of us but we are more than our bodies. 

    Autism and it’s traits appear to be the cause of separation but the cause of separation is when you deny that life is also part of who you are and in fact it’s the main element of who you are because without it, you would be dead. If you deny who you are and believe you are the body only you create instant separation and then the hunt is on to find others like you. And you’ll gather like a tribe and you’ll protect each other, gain confidence from each other through identification and it will be you against them ~ i.e. anybody who isn’t autistic. Because you believe your autistic. 

Children
  • My body and brain physically exist.

    The experience of being 'me' doesn't exist except as an experience.

    Once the chemical reactions that cause the experience of being 'me' stop, 'me' doesn't exist anymore.

    The physical body continues to exist only until the process of decay is complete. 

    The products of this physical decay end up in other physical things, such as the soil or in ash or in teeth but they have nothing to do with 'me'.

    My physical DNA may be extracted from those teeth thousands of years after i die but that is nothing to do with the 'me' that I experience either. That DNA can probably tell a future scientist that I had the physical capacity to smile, or love, but not what would have made 'me' smile or love or how those things would have been experienced by 'me'.      

  • So you’re saying you don’t exist? 

    Then you’re saying you do exist, but inside the body?

    You also say that you are chemistry and so when it stops, that’s the end of your life because you are the chemistry is that right? 

    But even though you as the chemical die, the body still continues to live but only in the soil until what? Until those chemicals die as well one day? 

  • No, I'm saying that 'me' and my thoughts are just experiences. Neither 'exists' as a concrete entity.

    The brain and the body are concrete entities that enable the experience of 'me', they're just the container it all happens in. Once the chemistry stops (an as yet unidentified 'end-point' but we've chosen many over the years) 'me' stops existing. 

    The energy / chemical reactions continue of course in the cells of the physical body and are recycled back into the soil, the air, whatever.  

  • It sounds like you’re saying you are your thoughts? 

  • Hmmm, interesting. I suppose all of the people etc. on the planet (elsewhere?) that I've never physically met or interacted with don't exist - for me. But I'll assume they're there, somewhere, existing in a physical sense, I just don't 'feel' anything one way or another about them. Their existence is just an interesting fact, I suppose. 

    I've never met an atom either but I do assume / believe they exist. I've never been on the London Eye but I assume / believe it exists. These people, or the London Eye, might even feature in a conversation I have about events I've heard of but they're not things I 'feel' anything about, I wouldn't particularly care if I was told tomorrow that they no longer existed at all. It would just be another interesting fact I'd heard. 

    I don't believe the 'energy' we call life has any intelligence of it's own. 

    You asked where am 'I' while my mind is "having these mental experiences". I beleive 'I' am just an experience of my mind. There is no 'real me', the experience of being me is just something my mind creates. Me, my mind, my experiences, thoughts, feelings, emotions etc. etc. are all just chemical reactions in the physical brain. I feel 'real' to me, but so does my experience of colour and space and time and none of those things are singularly 'real' in a concrete way either, I believe. 

    Love is just one such experience born of feeling close to someone else through shared physical experiences: choosing to spend more time with that person because it makes us both feel good, sharing interests etc. All of these things fire neurons in the 'right' way at the 'right' time and that feeling is called 'Love'.

    It's 'directed' or 'nurtured' I guess by choosing to spend more time with that person. It builds up over time and ends up encomassing shared memories and a sense of 'we' that makes it feel deeper / stronger over time. It is just an illusion though, as in it's not a concrete thing - just an experience. Finding out that the loved one of 20-years has been having a secret affair for 15 of these years (or some other similar revelation) is enough to shatter that illusion and then the 'Love' dissolves like the illusion it always was.

    So, Yes. Inasmuch as I choose who to spend time with / spend time on, I choose who I love. Once spending time with / on that person is no longer enjoyable, the 'Love' evaporates like the illusion it always was. It's a nice illusion though, otherwise people wouldn't buy into it. Me included. Love is just a pleasant chemical reaction, like all feelings / emotions / experiences (although some are not so pleasant of course).        

  • Does this energy have any intelligence? 

    You say you have mental experiences ~ I’m not sure what you mean by that? And if they are seperate from you, where are you while your mind is having these mental experiences, assuming mental experiences occur in your mind? 

    Are you saying love is a feeling? It’s not clear. You simply describe it as a side effect of your mental experiences, which I’m not clear about yet from your description. 

    I’m just trying to understand what you’re saying. You’re saying that love, this side effect of mental experience, is active. You do it. How do you do it? How do you direct or nurture it? When you interact with certain people, you suddenly feel it. Is that because it was already there but you only feel it when you interact with somebody or is it that it wasn’t there but when you interact with some body it somehow comes to you? It’s a little unclear to me. What would a person have to do to make you feel the love when you interact with them? 

    Are you saying that as far as you’re concerned, only the people you interact with that enable you to feel love exist, that anybody else, as far as your concerned doesn’t exist, to the point that you’ve never even thought of them? Do you actually know that other people, beyond these people you have this side effect called love thing with, even exist? I don’t understand? 

  • For me, life is energy. Simply the energy imparted from the particles that make up my physical bits. These particles come together, their energies mix, life! Just a chemical reaction.

    Love is just a side effect of my mental experiences, which are themselves shaped by the physical and chemical architecture of my brain. It's not a 'real' tangiable thing, just an experience. 

    To me, it's an active experience. It's something I 'do' or feel I can 'direct' or 'nurture' in some way. I feel love for certain people I interact with as a reaction to our shared experiences.

    The rest of the world, especially people I've never met, I don't actively feel anything at all for. Not love, like, dislike, nothing at all because I have never interacted with them and likely never thought of them at all.      

  • If you know this, then how is it possible to not love with all your heart every other living person on this planet? 

    When I say your body. I mean your body, mind, your name, your gender, your sense of humour, your job, all of these things are related to the body. 

    What is life? 

  • Yes, I believe i m autistic but neither I nor anyone else on here that I've read has ever said that's all they were - certainly none have said they weren't alive! (Or didn't have life inside them.)

    I don't think I've actually ever encountered anyone who only identifies as one single thing. I can understand only identifying as one single thing at a time, for a single moment or maybe a single activity, but even then we haven't stopped identifying as all of the other things we feel / know we are. We're simply only concentrating on one of them at that moment.