Please help me understand self-loathing and low self-esteem

thanks Tass I know and I try to do just that but you know how it is I’m sure my mind is just all over the place for no particular reason 

I think the opposite is actually the case, Untoward. I'll explain what I mean later. First I want to relax and watch a movie. I hope you are keeping well?

Thanks everyone,

I've really enjoyed this discussion and have gained a little insight into how others might process their feelings. I'm still trying to get to grips with some of it.

HOWEVER, I have a feeling this discussion might end up going in a direction I hadn't intended, or it might be becoming circular. My previous comment started to lead me down a dark path, which I don't think is particularly helpful, and might even be harmful to some. That way monsters live.

I've spent too long peering into the abyss. Some light can be found there, depending on your frame of mind, but it's much brighter where the sun shines.

Anyway, I'm more than happy to continue, or we can leave it here.

I heard that most humans are optimists, even people who consider themselves pessimists, because we evolved to be. If were realists and objective and saw ourselves and the world as it actually is then we would just kill ourselves.

So there has to be some level of self-delusion in everything we do. We have to trick ourselves into thinking we might succeed, or we'd never do anything.

No one responds well to being bullied or berated. Why can't we just say to ourselves:

"Well that didn't work out as I planned. Maybe that was the wrong thing to do in that situation. Okay, well, at least I've learned that and can try something else."

Instead of:

"You idiot. You've screwed up gain. You're f_____ useless. You never get it right."

I know which one feels better to hear and encourages a better choice next time and which one makes me feel hopeless and angry, and less free to try gain.

What is a fault, though, Untoward? Does a flower look at other flowers and tell itself it needs to be higher, or that it is not as colourful as the other flowers, or that it needs to be better at osmosis? This perception of not being good enough, or not being perfect is only the result of continuous negative self-talk. 

There is nothing wrong with wanting to change things in your life, but do we need to bully and berate ourselves at the same time?

You have noticed that too Tassimo has a way with words to make them sound like a gentle music

Thank you.

Yes. To all of the above!

I hear a lot of people asking about the purpose of their lives, Exist. Well, this is it. To learn how to love ourselves unconditionally. It's the reason we are sent to Earth to play the game of life. Better to understand the rules before the game is over and then you can enjoy each role of the dice.

Maybe I have the ability to just not care. 

But I do care. People are what they are. Everybody has positives and negatives, it is what it is, we are what we are.

Maybe it is about acceptance. Life is hard. Exist, that is what we do.

I don't quite get how objectivity would be a bad thing. To attempt to view ourselves without being skewed by our emotions. (true objectivity is likely not possible anyway)

Surely that would allow us to better understand how we function, and enable us to handle our emotions better.

We are not our thoughts. Our thoughts are how we interpret stimuli and stressors. It's what we do with those thoughts that matter.

Isn't any view of oneself self-delusion anyway?

I am really struggling to understand why so many people hate themselves.

It isn't necessary, and it isn't inevitable.

Know thyself. Love thyself

Being objective could be bad if you genuinely have many faults. Unless you are some kind of very attractive superhuman with a perfect personality, you would need some self-delusion in order to not hate yourself, or just the ability to not care.

Very true.

I'm not sure it's really possible to be objective about oneself, but I like to pretend that it is. That's why I liked having my assessment. It gave me new insights into something I already knew but didn't quite have the language to articulate.

It gave me a new vocabulary, if you will. That, in turn, has allowed me understand myself better.

Now I just need to work out how to understand others. I'm getting there...

You've done it again Tassimo

You certainly have a way with words. Gentle and kind. I don't think I could express such sentiments in  such a way. Looking around the forum it sometimes feels like treading on eggshells because my usual way of trying to help is subtle, like a sledgehammer.

But  being objective with yourself is a great way to be, Exist. If you can't manage to be a friend to yourself, at least don't be an enemy.

O, what about just spending some time each day being nice to yourself? Just for a little time each day stop giving yourself such a hard time.

Believe me. If you start now, you'll never regret it. Just spending five minutes a day, telling yourself nice things about yourself, talking to yourself as you would a best friend or lover; it's the most important (and enjoyable) thing you can do in a day —and the benefits are immeasurable.

The truth is that there is nothing wrong with you. Ever. 

Me neither, from what I have read it's all pretty much the same, that it works well but after long term use you build up a tolerance and/or withdrawal (in some cases) ultimately pills are just a tool to treat the symptoms of the issue and not something to actually address the cause.

Yep. I don't know anyone that has actually taking that kind of stuff that has positive things to say.

They've said not to touch it.

I'd rather go the behavioural/environmental route. Try to create systems that help.

I'd gone down the self medicating route when I was younger (not knowing I was self medicating) but my more is better mindset meant that got really messy, really fast.

I even forget to eat

Haha same, I'd be much more likely to do something to self medicate if I done my own research and I felt comfortable with it. and taking tings like Adderall or sertraline constantly aren't good for you if you take them long term.

Yeah, I'm wary of it too.

I've manged this far without. Hey, I even forget to eat so I'd probably not remember to take meds anyway,

I generally prefer to find out what something is so that I can work out ways of handling it. A kind of problem solving...