Sleep disorders common in people with ASD?

Just thought I'd throw this out here.

After a night of no sleep (realistically I must have had about; 30 to 40 minutes of sleep); I did some rather quick reading on the subject today, & I'm curious to know if anyone else has any sort of sleeping problems? From what I can tell it seems to be quite common in people with ASD?

I've struggled with sleep since childhood. At first I believed it to be due to the abusive/ disruptive surroundings (& I'd listen to music to drown it out & help me sleep. Sometimes I will still do this, but other times even that doesn't really help), but even after I left that predicament & moved into calmer settings, the sleep problems persisted, & have done so even to this day.

I've had everyone; through the years, giving me their 'suggestions' on where they believe I'm going wrong. Even had a few cheeky sods suggest it's because I wasn't active enough during the day, so I wasn't 'tiring myself out' enough. As you can imagine; I managed to prove that theory wrong on numerous occassions haha.

A few occassions in the past it has gotten bad enough for me to consider going to the doctor, but he's a bit bloody useless to be honest (& I'm actually on the look out to get myself & my family moved to another GP surgery).

All in all it tends to be manageable, believe it or not.

I think one problem I have is that I will stay in bed, 'trying' to sleep, when I clearly will not drop off no matter what measures I take. Every now & then I can tell when I'm going to have a small bout of insomnia & just wont sleep 'enough', last night was an extreme case as it's been a long time since I was awake all night.

I was talking to a friend about this, & even she suggested something I was considering, which is to just get out of bed & do something productive with my time. I'm a freelance artist, so those hours would be great to make up on lost time. I didn't sleep a wink last night, & I don't feel tired at all. I'd planned on maybe having a nap during the day, but I really don't need it. 

I think most of the stress stems from me also being a stay at home mum & thinking that me not getting enough sleep will result in me being too tired to contend with my children. I'm tempted to just get out of bed the next few times this happens; do something productive & seeing what the results are.
My own little 'experiment' I suppose. 

Sometimes it's pretty obvious that I can't sleep due to overthinking/stress, but other times, I'm just not tired at all & there really doesn't seem to be any obvious cause.

Does anyone else have anything like this?

  • I do agree with your point,

    And the NHS article does make a lot of sense. I do try and wind down and turn off all technology before bed. I think my issue is that when I go through the routine, and it fails, I have a partner who I know needs her sleep as much as me, and knowing I will be off to work in the morning and leaving her with between 1 and 3 children depending on the school term time, I find the best way is to remove myself from the room and make sure one of us gets a good sleep.

    As a child I would always go off to sleep listening to audio books, and I think this is where documentaries have now taken over. Plus there is always the possibility that I wake up having learned something new, even if its subconsciously  

  • I would have thought that taking up an activity when you are supposed to be sleeping is exactly what you shouldn't be doing. Shouldn't you be lulling yourself gradually into inactivity prior to sleeping? The day can be full of activities and achievements but the night time is for inactivity. If your brain just won't switch off and you aren't stressed then I would have thought that melatonin might be the thing that could restore the day vs night rhythm.

    NHS Direct have a page about http://www.nhs.uk/LiveWell/sleep/Pages/sleep-home.aspx sleep issues.

  • Ah sleep! Something I find difficulty with,always have done,I would creep downstairs and crawl behind the sofa to watch tv, my mum and dad sometimes knew and other times didn't, I seem unable to say"right time for bed" I sleep by just exhaustion o sheer tiredness, if I go to bed I just lay awake,head buzzing,a hundred different ideas or thoughts,in darkness I am worse as my eyes won't stay closed? So bright light is best, if it is to quite I hear my heartbeat,Basically I just get more and more anxious.

    As a young lad I would sit up hold my arms out straight until they were really heavy! I would force myself beyond the pain until I had to give in.

    life sure is interesting.

  • I've always had trouble doing things that come naturally to most people...eating, socialising, sleeping. I'm taking medication which helps me sleep now, but before I'd wake up a ridiculous amount of times every night. When I was a child I'd be up at 5am because I couldn't stay in bed. I read a bit about it too. There are ways that can help you nod off, but unfortunately sleep seems to be something a lot of people with autism struggle with.My nightly ritual is now to have all technology off at least an hour before I plan to go to bed, dab lavender oil on a scent piuch next to my bed, use Tisserand roll on sleep oil, and use visualisation every time a worry comes in to my head (visualise a bucket which you put the thoughts in and tell yourself 'you can think about that tomorrow'). I've found it helps slightly to designate yourself 'worry time', where each day you allow yourself 15 minutes to address the worries you have, and after that you tell yourself your worry time is over for that day, and you will deal with it at the next scheduled time. You could also try natural remedies, such as rescue remedy's night time dropper ( http://www.boots.com/bach-rescue-night-dropper-10ml-10077391 ) Apparently eating foods high in tryptophan can help too: https://draxe.com/tryptophan/ 

    On a random note, it's nice to meet a fellow artist =]

    I hope you find something that works for you!

  • I love the idea of building model boats or planes, though in practise I do not have the patience with it. I used to glue and paint little figures when I was younger, but I have always hit a wall after doing a few, and I end up with more in peces and unpainted than finished.

    Writing is something i do enjoy, though I have found that writing books is not for me, as I go into hyper detail and waffle on. It has given me a better appreciation for the skill of the writers I enjoy reading though.

    My go to is the documentary. I love learning things, and have often filled up the family TV hard drive with obscure learning programs from around the world. My kids homework is often far more detailed than others in their class, but I love helping pass on things I have learned to them (Also they usually seem far more interested than most adults I know!)

    I don't have any games consoles, but I have always thought I would like computer games. Something that changes to prevent boredom, challenging enough to engage the brain, but not too much suspense (Like fighting multi player type things)

    Do you have any suggestions?

  • I have this same problem too. My brain just does not switch off, even if there isn't an event or appointment, my head will still whizz around. Especially when the kids are off school & my routine is completely disrupted, so I know what's going to happen with the upcoming summer holidays. 

    & yeah I've never been comfortable with the idea of taking anything that will sedate me in any way (even slightly) when I have kids. 

    This question was mainly just to check if sleeping problems were; in fact, truly common amongst people with ASD. Apparently it would seem so.

    So; the next time I struggle to sleep, I'll just get out of bed & catch up on some artwork or writing. 
    Have you thought about taking up a crafting hobby? Like building model planes or one of those giant boats? Reading or writing, drawing or painting, or knitting or crochet? I'm looking into teaching myself how to crochet (there's plenty of how-to vids on YouTube), I want to make blankets & other bits & bobs; it looks like it would be relaxing to just sit & make something like that.

    (plus playing computer games is always great too)

  • I have a real problem with suspense, and when I have meetings at work the following day, or some sort of presentation to do I can almost always bet on a night of very little sleep. As a lot of my job is email based with colleagues in different time zones I also do a lot of waiting for issues to be resolved, or I have suggested a solution that I then have to wait for a response for.

    I have not been able to find an effective way of avoiding the anxiety and suspense. When I have had jobs that I can 'leave work at work' I have found I find other things that my brain wants to deal with instead, so I think its something hardwired into the brain that it needs something to mull over.

    I also have 3 children, so sedatives are not an option I would be happy with as they would render me useless in any kind of situation where I am needed in the night.

    Some sort of hobby that would be a good nocturnal distraction, whilst not waking children or making a mess would be a winner for me and my partner!  Suggestions most welcome!

  • As I understand it, Melatonin does not work like a "sleeping pill" it helps regulate the night/day behaviour of the body rather than just trying to just knock you out. I would do a bit of research and perhaps talk to GP about it before taking it.

  • That's the thing, I have three kids & the idea of taking any sort of supplement to knock me out really unsettles me. To be frank, I know that I will need something really strong in order to get me to sleep, & sleep all the way through, that's why I'm not comfortable with the idea of taking any pills (feeling 'relaxed' or 'sleepy' isn't enough some nights).
    I have a fan in the room, black out curtains, I've changed my diet, gotten more exercise, gone out of the house more, taken measures to relax before bed, I've done so much for so many years but nothing really seems to work. Some nights I get tired & will go to bed, only to be awake for another hour or two & then wake up repeatedly through the night, other nights I really struggle to sleep at all.
    It's not so much me looking for a 'solution', because I know the solution is to basically be knocked out every night to get a decent nights sleep, & there's no way I'm doing that. This was more me asking if sleep problems really is a common problem for ASD people or not. I guess it is :)

  • Apparently as a baby the slightest movement I would awaken when my mum tried to get me to sleep. I find zopiclone or valerian root helps.  I usually have a fan near my bed as I tend to get hot!!!

  • That's what I'm expecting to see start to build now I know I'm aware of my Aspergers. Its a holistic thing, by tweaking minor things here and there, they all have a knock on effect on other things, amplifying the overall positive change. If my sleep is still patchy after that change, then I'll look at some other solution.

  • QuirkyFriend said:
    My SO is stubbornly resisting a trial of melatonin

    Well he would, wouldn't he. Stubborn resistance is what we do!

    Perhaps he could be persuaded if he actually had a melatonin test to see if he had a measurable deficiency. Scientific evidence might be more persuasive than persuasion.

  • Meltonin is mentioned as a treatment for autism on the NHS Choices page here http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/autistic-spectrum-disorder/Pages/treatment.aspx

    There seems to be proper clinical evidence that some people with autism have a measurable deficit of melatonin and this can be addressed with melatonin as a medicinal form. I don't know whether this needs to be measured with a blood sample first and it is also necessary to state that it won't benefit everybody with autism who has a sleep issue.

    Part of the reason for putting the link about melatonin in my earlier reply was to lead to other discussions about sleep problems. Any thread that talks about meltonin is likely to discuss other remedies.

    Personally I am now aware that my sleep has improved because I have managed to become less anxious and have got myself into a much better place mentally. This is a result of knowing and accepting myself better for what I am now that I have a diagnosis. I have also tried to avoid certain foods that I seem to be intolerant of (salicylates seem to disagree with me). Everyone has to find their own way to being comfortable with who they are rather than being disappointed and angry about who they aren't.

  • People with that many letters have an alphabet soup diagnosis :-)

    Seriously though I don't know if your GP can prescribe melatonin for you but it's worth asking the question.

    I've just been reading the research on using methylphenidate (ritalin) close to sleep times and it might help some people slow down enough to sleep.

    Me, I listen to a lot of BBC radio - thank goodness for internet streamed radio!

  • Well I do have undiagosed ADHD & OCD, so that's obviously part of it. When I went for my ASD assessment the psychiatrist did mention ADHD & try to push me to get checked, but I just scoffed at the idea & didn't think I had it, & I was concentrating so much on the ASD.
    Later I did further reading on the different 'types' of ADHD, & it left me thinking 'oooooh.... crap. Yeah maybe I should have been checked for that too'. Sod's law eh? I'm just a mess of walking acronyms Haha.

  • Yep, we have those. In fact we have two sets of curtains to completely black out the room. We even have one of those sleep masks, but nothing will work because some nights I'm just laying in bed trying to get to sleep, when in fact I could just get up & do something productive with that time.

  • ADHD has a huge issue of sleep disorders. My SD20 will be asking the psychiatrist for help. My SO is stubbornly resisting a trial of melatonin.

    SD16 has ASD and sleeps the best of us all when she's here and got her own spaces. She comes to us tired because she co-sleeps with her mother (grrrr!)

  • Have a look at some of the threads thrown up by this search. They are all about sleep issues http://community.autism.org.uk/search?q=melatonin

    Also, there is a full moon at the moment and this means that it is not as dark at night and many people can be disturbed by this increase in light level. i use blackout curtains if I am struggling to stay asleep.

  • That's the thing. For me personally, I think this is why I'm just going to try getting out of bed & doing something productive with my time; & see how that goes. If it leaves me a zombified state for days on end, then I'll have to take a trip to the doctor & see what he suggests (as useless as he is).

    I've tried everything, changed my diet, went outside more, did tons of exercise (even lost lot's of weight), no screen time before I went to bed, listened to music etc etc. 
    Nothing has really worked, I stick to a pretty rigid bed time etc, & for me that doesn't even work.

    Hopefully it works out for you, not everyone on the spectrum is the same after all. I guess we just all need to figure out what works for us individually :)

  • I've had issues with sleep for as long as I can remember. I've tried everything I can think of. Sleeping pills wouldn't work. The best I got was slight improvements.

    After my Asperger's realisation I'm rethinking this. I can't stay still for long so pills that are designed to relax the muscles are interiores by me moving and fidgeting. I'm also looking at a proper firm mattress as I have back issues too.

    When I get my head around how Asperger's has dominated me without me being aware, and as I gradually score victories in fighting it, the more productive my day will be, leading to an easing of "I'm wasting time" while trying to nod off.

    I now have a set shift schedule. This means that I can nail the time I need to get up every day. I also keep that as best as I can on my days off or holidays. My theory is that my body will figure out how much sleep it needs with the only part it's flexible enough to control....when to fall asleep.