Gaslighting

'Gaslighting is a form of manipulation that seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or in members of a targeted group, hoping to make them question their own memory, perception, and sanity. Using persistent denial, misdirection, contradiction, and lying, it attempts to destabilise the target and delegitimise the target's belief.'

As Aspies, I'm sure we're particularly prone to this.  I know I am. My experience, too - with a sister-in-law who's a consummate narcissist - has caused me much grief and upset over the last 30 years.  These were years when I not only didn't know that I was autistic, but I also didn't really know what her motivations were.  I've found out so much more about it all since my diagnosis, and through having someone else who knows her tell me that she isn't just like it with me.  For most of those years, I simply thought there was something wrong with me - and she was the one who, more than most, was at pains to keep reminding me.  The damage this woman has done - not just to me, but to other members of my close family - is profound.  Much of it is irreparable.  But at least now I no longer have any reason to have any contact with her - notwithstanding the fact that she's married to my brother.  I'm well rid of her.  She's controlled and manipulated our family for far too long.  My brother is her puppet.  And so competent a puppeteer is she that he doesn't even realise he has strings!  He's well and truly Stockholmed!

For years, I've been told I'm gullible, susceptible, credulous, naive, etc.  I've had my leg pulled time after time, and been the butt-end of jokes.  I've been taken for a ride, scammed, made to look ridiculous.  But I take people at face value.  If they tell me something, I tend to believe them.  Why wouldn't I?  Why would they lie to me?  But people have, and do.  It's why I detest gossip and won't have any part of it, because all it really is is manipulation and destabilisation, perpetuated by a group.  Victimising the vulnerable.  And it gives people a sense of 'belonging' to be onside in the gossip.  If you're not happy with the way someone's behaving or performing - tell them!  But no.  Gossip is easier... and it's more fun.  Huh!

Anyone else got any 'gaslight' tales to share?

Parents
  • Yes I have experienced this a lot in my life Tom. 

    I recall the first time I was conned at work when I was only maybe 20 years old. Someone I considered a friend persuaded a female working in the same organisation to pretend to be interested in meeting me for lunch in a local pub. It was a joke and of course I sat in the pub for half an hour and nobody showed up. When I returned to work he was all smiles and eventually confessed to the con. I have never forgotten the humiliation I felt and it affected my confidence significantly for many years.

    I have experienced people approach me and tell me lies (gossip) to see if I would fall for the con and then be humiliated when the subject of the gossip was told I had believed the lie and came face to face with me to make it clear they knew what I had falsely believed. 

    Another incident occurred after I ended a relationship with a woman who persuaded me to go over for dinner and stay the night "for one last time" I declined but she was so persistent I eventually gave in. A few weeks later she called to tell me she was pregnant.

    I believed her at the time but now realise it was in fact a lie to hurt me for ending our relationship. 

    One of the reasons I shy away from trying to socialise to this day.

    Take care, Laddie.

  • Me too.  Even at work, with people I feel reasonably confident around, I'm still wary.  One woman in particular, who seems to like me and accept me for who I am, is quite a vindictive gossip.  If she's got the knives out for someone, they go in.  She took an instant dislike to another chap who started at the same time as I did.  Yes, he was arrogant and a bit bullying in his manner - but I could get along with him.  I thought he needed to grow up, and maybe ought to have the chance to.  She whipped up all sorts of stuff against him, though.  Eventually, last week, he was sacked.  I'll admit I don't miss him - but I'm now much more wary around her. 

    Last week, our new manager got us together in a group and told us all - making it quite clear that 'this doesn't apply to most of you' - that we shouldn't be using mobile phones whilst working with clients.  Fair enough - and I'm glad she said it and got it out in the open.  It's been a bone of contention with me ever since I started there.  And I certainly didn't feel it was directed at me, because I never use my phone at work.

    Afterwards, I spoke to this colleague about it - and she was indignant.  'I don't think she should have generalised like that.'  I pointed out that she actually hadn't generalised.  She'd told all of us so that everyone knew, and she'd done it in a way that wasn't pointing a finger.  'No," she insisted.  'She did it wrong.  She should just call people in the office individually and tell them - not generalise it and accuse everyone.'

    I decided not to pursue it.  If I'd been the manager, I'd have done the same.  My colleague's now got a 'thing' about the manager - who really is a decent person and good at her job - so I wonder how long it will be before negativity will be building up against her.  And how long before I start getting regarded as some sort of toady.

  • Me too.  Even at work, with people I feel reasonably confident around, I'm still wary.  One woman in particular, who seems to like me and accept me for who I am, is quite a vindictive gossip.  If she's got the knives out for someone, they go in.  She took an instant dislike to another chap who started at the same time as I did.  Yes, he was arrogant and a bit bullying in his manner - but I could get along with him.  I thought he needed to grow up, and maybe ought to have the chance to.  She whipped up all sorts of stuff against him, though.  Eventually, last week, he was sacked.  I'll admit I don't miss him - but I'm now much more wary around her. 

    Last week, our new manager got us together in a group and told us all - making it quite clear that 'this doesn't apply to most of you' - that we shouldn't be using mobile phones whilst working with clients.  Fair enough - and I'm glad she said it and got it out in the open.  It's been a bone of contention with me ever since I started there.  And I certainly didn't feel it was directed at me, because I never use my phone at work.

    Afterwards, I spoke to this colleague about it - and she was indignant.  'I don't think she should have generalised like that.'  I pointed out that she actually hadn't generalised.  She'd told all of us so that everyone knew, and she'd done it in a way that wasn't pointing a finger.  'No," she insisted.  'She did it wrong.  She should just call people in the office individually and tell them - not generalise it and accuse everyone.'

    I decided not to pursue it.  If I'd been the manager, I'd have done the same.  My colleague's now got a 'thing' about the manager - who really is a decent person and good at her job - so I wonder how long it will be before negativity will be building up against her.  And how long before I start getting regarded as some sort of toady.

    ************************

    Good heavens!  I wrote this post in January, when I was starting to have suspicions about the woman at work.  How prescient was that?  Little did I know then what was to come.

    The car-scratching is just the latest thing in her campaign to get me to begin to doubt my own sanity - which I am.  She knows I can't prove anything.  Likewise with the passive-aggressive comments - all done out of earshot of others. 

    This article suggests confronting the abuser and telling them that they know what game they're playing, in the hope that it will make them stop.  Personally, I can't see that working.  If I say to her 'I know your game, so what's the problem?', she'll just look at me like I'm nuts and walk away.

    8 Tips To Protect You From Gaslighting In The Workplace.

    What do other people think?

  • I think your case will be stronger if you stick to what you know - you can tell HR about a pattern of events - the interference and undermining that led to you losing control, the vehicle being returned late, comments made to you out of hearing of others, even the fact that your car was found to be damaged after she parked next to it.

    Personally I would avoid going any further - HR can piece things together themselves and see what the evidence points to without you spelling it out. Have you considered taking advice from your Union before you speak to HR? They seem to like to be consulted as soon as possible. 

    I can see why calling her bluff over the damage to the car is tempting but this kind of things sometimes backfires. I asked a test question of a manager once, and her answer proved she was dishonest. Trouble was she then knew I knew, and things got infinitely worse. 

  • Ah, yes.  Just read about it.  Playing with his trouser sizes during filming of 'The Monuments Men.'

  • George Clooney played that prank on Matt Damon actually.

  • A deliberate deception that I'm going to use - not that I like being deceptive.  But it's playing her at her own game, in a way.  As I said, if she's innocent, there's no harm done.  If she did it, though, and thinks it's about to be found out, then there should be an obvious reaction.

    And I would, of course, inform my other colleague - so I wouldn't be deceiving him.

  • Well... I have a plan that, if it succeeds, will 'out' her.  It's a bluff I'm going to play.  One colleague in particular, and one whom I trust, has had similar treatment.  He knows what's going on.  He's convinced, as I am, that she did the car damage.  I'm going to pick my moment when he's working around her.  I'm going to go to him, in her earshot, and tell him the police have come back to me to say they've found the incident taking place after checking CCTV.  I'll also say that they not only have the incident recorded, but also the registration number of the car the perpetrator was driving.  I'll say that they're coming to see me later with this evidence, and that now I'll not only be able to claim on their insurance, but also prosecute for criminal damage. 

    Then see how she reacts to hearing this.  If she's innocent, it'll be nothing - and there's nothing lost.  If she's guilty, she'll react.  Most likely, she'll ask for a smoke break and rush off to make phone calls.


  • I am.  But unfortunately, much of it is exactly those things.  The evidence is so strong against her with the car scratching.  It happened in that car park, after I had parked.  She was parked next to me all day and probably thought I hadn't noticed (I'm vigilant with noticing where she parks her car).  It was there when I left to go home, and she'd left just a few minutes before me.  She had motive, in ramping up her campaign.  But where's the proof?  Same with the passive-aggressive comments.  Her word against mine.

    Seriously Tom ~ the car scratching thing may be a red herring to distract you and get you focused elsewhere, but keeping your focus on work and about work is the most effective approach.

    Use the 'gaslighting' frustration as energy to recycle for being truly more you, rather than wound up and more prone to being a victim of the gaslighting.

    Everyday upon leaving the building to go home after work, take a deep breath and stretch, and on the out breath limber the day's tensions and frustrations off ~ before driving home. And if you feel wound up about work and stuff before getting into work ~ deep breath and limber it off again.

    Water off a duck's back stylie.


  • When talking to HR it is probably best to stick to the facts

    But the point is that the 'facts' are all so open to interpretation.  It's largely my say-so - about the stage-management of the incident, the comments and the car-scratching.  I have no proof of anything.  And everything I hold up as 'evidence' can be countered in some way by her.

  • Ignoring and confronting gaslighting are both dangerous tactics. When I put as much distance as possible between myself and a narcissist bully they came after me. The assault a narcissist bully feels when you refuse to play their game enrages them almost beyond belief. 

    Exactly why I don't see it as useful advice for me to confront her with my knowledge of the game she's playing.  She'd use that against me directly and indirectly.  It would only get worse.  She's clearly realised that we haven't been working together for several weeks now, so she's probably sussed out that I've asked for us to be kept separate.  The car-scratching is a clear tactic to ramp up the pressure against me in another way.  So, I'm at an impasse.  I don't want to leave the job, and I don't want to let some aggressive **** force me out of it.  I'm going to work with management until it gets to the point that they suggest mediation as the only route to settle things.  I'll then get the Union involved.

    'A victim whose credibility is weakened serves as ammunition for an abuser, because the abuser is able to evade accountability for his or her actions by claiming that the victim is unhinged, unstable, and pursuing some form of vendetta against the abuser.'
    'The most covert gaslighters manufacture scenarios that drive their victims over the edge while erasing any trace of their involvement....
    They exploit existing vulnerabilities in the victims, such as past traumas, addictions and mental health issues. They create chaos so that the victim reacts and they are able to use the reactions of their victims against them (sometimes even going so far as videotaping the victim's reactions while failing to provide the context of their abusive behaviour).'

    Exactly what happened with the incident she stage-managed, which got me a reprimand for doing something which - as I had to point out to my senior manager - I had no control over, being an autistic person.  I'm banking on his 'If we can't take care of autistic staff, it won't look good on us' observation as some kind of leverage in my favour.  If I end up losing my job over it, I won't let it rest. 

    And yes... she's exploiting her knowledge of my condition and circumstances, which I confided when she initially set herself up as someone who really understood and sympathized.

    Fortunately, also on my side is the fact that I'm very popular with all the service users and most of the other staff - and I'm good at my job.  I really think she hates that, because it's a challenge to her own standing and authority.  Just my continuing presence there is an annoyance to her.  Which is another reason why I'm going to hang out for as long as I can and refuse to buckle.


  • I bet Paula had another word for it.

    Head[m]uck perhaps? ;-)


    It’s a horrible thing to go through

    So counterproductive! :-(


  • Gaslighting is almost impossible to escape unscathed. Any reaction you make to what is going on is likely to be turned against you. This is desperately unfair but the more you struggle to prove you are the victim, not the problem, the more difficult it gets.

    Ignoring and confronting gaslighting are both dangerous tactics. When I put as much distance as possible between myself and a narcissist bully they came after me. The assault a narcissist bully feels when you refuse to play their game enrages them almost beyond belief. 

    Try and restabilise yourself by using reliable reference points. When talking to HR it is probably best to stick to the facts, you can be more open with your Union representative, as long as you trust them. 

    There is a good article on gaslighting here: 

    thoughtcatalog.com/.../

    These quotes from it seem important: 

    'A victim whose credibility is weakened serves as ammunition for an abuser, because the abuser is able to evade accountability for his or her actions by claiming that the victim is unhinged, unstable, and pursuing some form of vendetta against the abuser.'
    'The most covert gaslighters manufacture scenarios that drive their victims over the edge while erasing any trace of their involvement....
    They exploit existing vulnerabilities in the victims, such as past traumas, addictions and mental health issues. They create chaos so that the victim reacts and they are able to use the reactions of their victims against them (sometimes even going so far as videotaping the victim's reactions while failing to provide the context of their abusive behaviour).'

    I am taking Propanalol at the moment for work related stress due to a similar but different scenario. I am off sick and still trying to work out what to do for the best. The great thing is that Propanalol reduces anxiety without fogging up the brain. Recent research suggests it is a suitable medication for autistic people. I can't drink alcohol while I am taking it but that doesn't bother me much. I am getting the same effects from Propanalol that I used to get by drinking wine, but with no hangover (and it's cheaper!).

    Do take care and be cautious - the worst thing of all would be to play into the bully's hands by getting into trouble yourself.  

  • I bet Paula had another word for it. It’s a horrible thing to go through

  • I've heard a similar story, purported to be true, from Whitehall.  Some junior civil servants took against one of their seniors - a pompous and vain man.  He had his bowler hat made to measure at a particular exclusive London hat-maker.  These juniors clubbed together and had several bowlers made at the same establishment, but in progressively smaller sizes.  Every week or so, they'd substitute his hat for one of the smaller sizes.  The man became paranoid that his head was expanding, and eventually went to see his doctor.  Then the juniors reversed the process - leading him to think that his head was shrinking again.

  • Was trying to find a connection between a gaslight and the meaning. To no avail Smile

  • I see. Thanks. Like some Scandinavian plays but can't remember the nsmes. 


  • The term "gaslighting" can be traced back to a 1938 play. British playwright Patrick Hamilton created "Gas Light," a mystery/thriller that premiered in London and played there for six months. But most folks familiar with the history of the term think back to the 1944 film adaptation of the play, "Gaslight."

    The movie stars Charles Boyer and Ingrid Bergman. They play a married couple, Paula and Gregory. Throughout the film, abusive husband Gregory manipulates Paula to make her feel as if she has gone mad. He leads her to believe she's stealing things without realizing it and hearing noises that aren’t really there. Paula begins to question her reality.


    https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-10-14/heres-where-gaslighting-got-its-name


  • Then he is not suitable for his position.

  • Absolutely.  I mean... if she can shout at a senior manager, who's certainly no wallflower, and get her way with him...

  • That is because people are scared and sensitive to peer pressure.

  • She's taken against me, I think, for two reasons.  Firstly, I don't play ball with her.  I question things that others just let slide because it isn't worth it.  Secondly... I'm very popular at work, and she's probably jealous.  She likes to be top dog.  She doesn't like competition.  Not that that's what I am.  I don't play those games.  But that's how she will see it.

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  • She's taken against me, I think, for two reasons.  Firstly, I don't play ball with her.  I question things that others just let slide because it isn't worth it.  Secondly... I'm very popular at work, and she's probably jealous.  She likes to be top dog.  She doesn't like competition.  Not that that's what I am.  I don't play those games.  But that's how she will see it.

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