Chris Packham show - glossing over relationship problems

Did anyone else find the Chris Packham show (https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b09b1zbb/chris-packham-aspergers-and-me) worrying? 

Had Chris chosen to be single, I would have applauded every aspect of this show and agreed wholeheartedly with his horror at the 'curative treatments' he witnessed in the USA / sentiment that his Aspergers was an intrinsic and positive part of his make-up.

But he isn't single, and I was horrified at how casually the show treated the dysfunction in his relationship with Charlotte. 

He admitted to having difficulty in empathizing with other humans. The only feeling he expressed for Charlotte was gratitude that SHE loved HIM; he showed her no affection, avoided physical contact with her, said that he only knew how long they'd been together because she had told him (10 years), aggressively forced her to greet his dog before he otherwise acknowledged her after a significant period of time apart... for her part she acknowledged many difficulties in the relationship but the show presented her concluding that it was worth it because she so admired how his mind works. Was that just editing? Can it really be enough? Surely anyone can admire how his mind works, it doesn't mean that you have to be in an exclusive 'romantic' relationship / 'partnership' with that person to witness it.  

I worry for her enormously, because I am only just now recovering from a "catastrophic" end to a relationship with a man on the Autism Spectrum. I wrote on this forum about it last year. The short version of it is that I supported him for years, and he ended our relationship a few hours after my Dad's traumatic death because HE found it too intense.

There was more too, but beyond the scope of this post. It's impossible to express the psychological impact these events have had on me, it was devastation upon devastation. That was about a year and a half ago. It has been a very tough time and although I'm starting to pull through now, my own mental health has been in the toilet for most of it. 

What is a relationship for if not reciprocal intimacy and support? The show completely glossed over his really unpleasant attitude to humans in general, and Charlotte in particular. In addition, I'm concerned that the show may have given the impression that treating a partner with such disdain is acceptable. It's not.

I completely agree that Aspergers has unique potential to offer a whole other set of intellectual skills which are of enormous value to humanity, but it is my opinion that it is irresponsible for someone who does not have the capacity for human empathy to be involved in a romantic relationship. 

Parents
  • Hi Everyone,

    Thanks so much for all your candid but kind replies. I haven't responded til now because discussing this issue has been very triggering for me. After a particularly low point a few months ago I've learned that I need to build a fence around my mental health and protect it as a priority. So I've been trying not to dwell on this debate, so close to home as it is, too much.

    Although several people made fair points (about the lack of time available, the show being focused on the positive aspects of autism, impact of the film crew on Chris' behaviour etc), what I have found most impactful about this thread has been the sentiment of a lack of care for people who get hurt by the actions of loved ones on the spectrum. Direct quotes being: “I wasn't bothered about the girlfriend”, “I don't have any sympathy for the two females... they knew the score”.

    While of course I agree that “It is highly personal and up to us all, as individuals, (NT and/or ND) to decide exactly what we are prepared to give and do in a relationship…and our choice alone also as to what we are prepared to accept or not accept from others too”, it’s rarely that simple. In my research since my own awful experience, I have read that my experience is common – that the autism spectrum individual will be attracted to a naturally empathetic person, who often has their own self-esteem issues. In short, someone who is willing to give more than they believe they deserve in return.

    My partner was very happy to share what he was willing to share, and was happy if that made the other person happy (like in the film, Chris is a wonderful father figure as he’s very happy to take his step-daughter out on wildlife adventures). In my experience, this was the only side of my partner I saw for a long time, long enough for love to grow. Then when incidents in which reciprocation was called for, and he proved unwilling to give or share in any experience that was meaningful to me but was outside his own interest or comfort zone (like how Chris responds to his step-daughter’s request to attend her graduation, how his sister describes her whole childhood experience with him), my low self-esteem was such to make excuses for him, and tell myself that they were just minor issues, didn’t matter in the bigger picture.

    Then a bigger picture event occurred. My Dad died, and my boyfriend just discarded me. After years of telling me he loved me and wanted to make a life with me, less than 24 hours after the toughest loss of my life he tells me that he doesn’t think he’s ever loved me and wants out. To say that there’s nothing wrong with a condition that would make an individual think that this is acceptable is dangerously misleading.

    A friend sent me an article on “Empaths and Vampires”, and it’s the only way I’ve been able to make sense of his actions. That he was an energy vampire, who drinks of the kindness of empathetic, self-effacing women. Bereaved, I ran out of juice and was therefore of to use to him anymore. The immediate and total switch-off of his feelings for me at this time was so dramatic that it seemed very much like the result of cold calculation – she wants from me more than I can give, so therefore, I’m out of here. This is why I think it’s dangerous to gloss over the terrible harm that lack of empathy can cause, with a view such as “it’s not appropriate to interpret behaviours or intentions through an NT worldview". Just because someone has a reason to act unkindly doesn’t make it ok.

    So this is why I worry so for Charlotte. As ‘Tortoise’ mentioned – she has expressed her hopes that they will move in together soon, does that seem likely? Look at Chris’ thank you message, not a mention of Charlotte…

    Yes, it is her choice to be with him, and yes, maybe it’s not as bad as it looks. But as so many respondents said, human relationships ARE complicated, and when we act with our heart rather than our head we can get deeply entrenched in sticky situations that we may need help to get out of.

    I’ll end by just saying this, for both NT and Autism Spectrum partners – use my experience as a litmus test… If, and when, some painful life event happens, will you be able to be there for the other person? Have that conversation now, before it actually happens and save yourself the extra pain of finding it out at the worst possible moment.

    Best wishes.

  • Although I do not personally share or agree with some of Maras views, perceptions and interpretations of events which were in the programme; underlying all this speculation, I can’t help but feel that Mara raised an important point which is being missed and ‘glossed over…’ here. And that point is (not to focus on CPs relationships personally but instead that the show may have highlighted) that it may be painful for an NT dating an ND in ways that only (NT) others in a similar situation may be able to fully understand?

    And this point (as seemingly raised in Maras opening post) appears to be stemming from the fact that the usual things that an NT may naturally assume or expect from any ‘loving’ relationship, such as that their partner (parent or child) will be there for them during difficult or important times, may prove to not necessarily be entirely 'true' when dating (or being in a relationship with) an ND? This point is, of course, true when dating NTs too, however:

    Using the programmes content as an example only; Megan’s Graduation demonstrates this point. I fully appreciate and respect that CP does not want to go due to a plethora of possible reasons however; this rationale, however justified from his point of view, may make it fully understandable, but likely does not stop it still hurting Megan that he won’t be there. And I think the important point that this example and Mara both raised may be that, even if an NT knows why an ND does or does not do something, knowing this ‘fact’ with the mind may not always stop it hurting the heart.

    There are many NT people out there who know and accept why their ND child (or partner) does not hug them, but this may never stop them wanting a hug from their child (or partner) nor feeling the pain of loss of having no hug.

    This is not to say that all NTs are there for their partners (parents or children) either, far from it. Or that NDs should be demonised in any way. However, it is no good pretending that dating a ND is ‘typical,’ because it may often be not. And this diversity has, in my opinion, great strengths and a great many positive and highly appealing aspects, but it must also have its downside for NTs too? And I think it’s appropriate to candidly reflect on (and not seek to shame) that downside, especially when an NT, such as Mara, reaches out and tries to share and make sense of their experiences.

    And, in my understanding, it’s downright and irrefutably callous to suggest that any hurt or heartbreak endured by NTs or NDs in any relationship is simply and entirely their own fault for ‘knowing the score.’ We do have free will (allegedly) in our relationships with others, but equally: surely no amount of will power or freedom to choose has the ability to entirely stamp out hurt?

Reply
  • Although I do not personally share or agree with some of Maras views, perceptions and interpretations of events which were in the programme; underlying all this speculation, I can’t help but feel that Mara raised an important point which is being missed and ‘glossed over…’ here. And that point is (not to focus on CPs relationships personally but instead that the show may have highlighted) that it may be painful for an NT dating an ND in ways that only (NT) others in a similar situation may be able to fully understand?

    And this point (as seemingly raised in Maras opening post) appears to be stemming from the fact that the usual things that an NT may naturally assume or expect from any ‘loving’ relationship, such as that their partner (parent or child) will be there for them during difficult or important times, may prove to not necessarily be entirely 'true' when dating (or being in a relationship with) an ND? This point is, of course, true when dating NTs too, however:

    Using the programmes content as an example only; Megan’s Graduation demonstrates this point. I fully appreciate and respect that CP does not want to go due to a plethora of possible reasons however; this rationale, however justified from his point of view, may make it fully understandable, but likely does not stop it still hurting Megan that he won’t be there. And I think the important point that this example and Mara both raised may be that, even if an NT knows why an ND does or does not do something, knowing this ‘fact’ with the mind may not always stop it hurting the heart.

    There are many NT people out there who know and accept why their ND child (or partner) does not hug them, but this may never stop them wanting a hug from their child (or partner) nor feeling the pain of loss of having no hug.

    This is not to say that all NTs are there for their partners (parents or children) either, far from it. Or that NDs should be demonised in any way. However, it is no good pretending that dating a ND is ‘typical,’ because it may often be not. And this diversity has, in my opinion, great strengths and a great many positive and highly appealing aspects, but it must also have its downside for NTs too? And I think it’s appropriate to candidly reflect on (and not seek to shame) that downside, especially when an NT, such as Mara, reaches out and tries to share and make sense of their experiences.

    And, in my understanding, it’s downright and irrefutably callous to suggest that any hurt or heartbreak endured by NTs or NDs in any relationship is simply and entirely their own fault for ‘knowing the score.’ We do have free will (allegedly) in our relationships with others, but equally: surely no amount of will power or freedom to choose has the ability to entirely stamp out hurt?

Children
No Data