Poll: Should this forum be a space for people with autism?

  • Indeed, without those supportive parents and carers, NAS would not be in its present form. Also, a significant number of 'other' NAS stakeholders might well fall into the ND category. I wouldn't care to try and define that category, or its supposed opposite.

  • Are social untruths the same as deception though? As an autistic woman I feel extremely deceptive when I mask and perform different roles for different audiences, to such an extent that I'm not sure I spend much time actually being myself. Is this not also deception? 

    Yes, I'm useless at withholding my honest opinion in many situations, I would rather be honest, but I fear my social behaviour is far more disingenuous than my NT friends. I'm not sure how I could know for sure.

  • They like portraying themselves as neurotypical saviours. But in reality, it's just self-serving behaviour

    Yeah that's a strange thing to me, like I know that behaviour exists within NT's but I cannot relate that when ever I see it from them.

  • That's interesting - I've never written a 'letter' in my life - only faxes or e-mails - and I always use my normal informal language no matter who I'm dealing with -  starting with 'hi' and ending with 'cheers' - but my auto signature includes what I am - C.Eng etc. so the reader can judge who they're dealing with and at what level to pitch a reply.    By appearing immediately friendly / non-threatening, I find it puts people at ease so they settle into a rapport faster than endless fake formality.

  • According to The journal of Applied Behaviour Analysis (among other publications).

    (RYAN BERGSTROM & ADEL C. NAJDOWSKI)

    Their research and focus is on teaching children with autism to tell socially appropriate lies in order to integrate more effectively into the neurotypical world.

    This is not innate or spontaneous behaviour for autistic children. Most autistic children (not all) have difficulty with spontaneous deceptive behaviour. It is something they have to learn from neurotypicals.

    Whereas, neurotypical children develop this ability spontaneously and continue to use verbal deception in their interpersonal relationships throughout their lives. They have even modelled language to reflect this.

    As a linguist, I can point you to hundreds of studies on this too, if you like?

    Have you ever wondered why neurotypicals like to use: to tell you the truth so often in their speech? It's because it's an explicit recognition that any utterance that came before it (and anything that usually comes after it is) has not been the truth.

    As an autistic person, this is one of the most bizarre phrases I hear come from NTs mouths. Have you never found that an odd expression for someone to say to you?

    To tell you the truth, .....
    Hmm. So up until this point, you've not been telling me the truth?





  • No, these are conventions which have been taken from speech and prescribed to written communication. They have no semantic value. They are what we term as modes of phatic communion (language used for general purposes of social interaction). And they are a wholly neurotypical invention.

    No one really wants to know how someone at the beginning of an email or text or latter and no one wants to send someone their best wishes or regards at the end of an email or text or letter.  If they do, that's a wholly different thing. But you may include it as part of the content rather than as phatic opening gambit.

    The point is these are all learned behaviours and they are all neurotypical, which stems from the belief that you cannot communicate clearly and openly without resorting to formulaic niceties, which mimic the falseness of face-to-face communication.

    Dear, ___ (are they really dear to us?)

    I hope this letter finds you well. (Do we? I just want to complain about something. I just want to enquire what time something opens. I couldn't care less about the state of health of the person opening or responding to the letter/email.)

    I look forward to hearing from you. (Do I? No. I may expect to hear from them. I may or may not want to, but I'm certainly not always looking forward to it.)

    Best wishes, regards....

    (Really? )

  • According to what source? 

  • I find whenever I post, I almost always have to go back and fix all my spelling and punctuation errors and put in missing words afterwards.     

    It's also why I tend to write in very short chunks.

  • If you're writing war and peace maybe. For a quick work email not so much no. Maybe you re read once or twice quickly but not over and over. And forum posts are meant to be more free flowing, more like in person speech.

  • Intentionally learning neurotypical behaviours

    I can't see how masking behaviour translates to written words.    How would anyone notice?

  • by re reading things 15 times self censuring looking for anything that might ofend

    But isn't that just normal / good communication - trying to get the correct message across?

    In writing, some people are good at it, some not so good - I can't see how this is masking.

  • by re reading things 15 times self censuring looking for anything that might ofend some one or put their nose out of joint. This is what I did in my old job for writing emails (it still didn't work)

  • Intentionally learning neurotypical behaviours can apply to all forms of social interaction, whether they be verbal, non-verbal, in person or virtual. Text messaging is simply an extension (in electronic form) of interpersonal communication.

  • Deception is predominantly a neurotypical behaviour.

  • nothing, but you have to hope that people will be truthful.  I would guess people who had an agenda and lied would soon reveal themselves in some way

  • What stops people telling lies?

  • Just floating the idea of creating a space (or system of identification) in which NDs can interact without having to mask for NTs.

    How do you mask on a text-based forum?    Smiley    

  • Yeah, I'm with you, O. I'm just sick of the I'm here to save you! neurotypical response to everything. They like portraying themselves as neurotypical saviours. But in reality, it's just self-serving behaviour to feed their neurotypical saviour complex and be praised for coming to the rescue of those poor, helpless autistics.  I'm not of the opinion that neurotypical inclusion always serves the wider interests of the autistic community. Eventually, like the Borg, they will try and absorb us into the neurotypical collective. 

    x

  • I understand your feelings Michael, although I have to say that I personally don't feel it would be beneficial. This is because the forum provides help to NT parents and carers looking for support from those who will understand the challenges their children are facing, and can provide an insight that NT professionals may not. We do not need to pretend to be anything other than we are on here, it can still be a safe place. Also if we want NTs to understand our differing needs, who better than to provide that information. 

  • I'm afraid I still don't understand. Here, we are the majority. If a NT person comes to this site, it's more likely because they wish to understand someone in their own life. By masking, you would be providing incorrect information which wouldn't help the NT, nor the Autistic person. 

    Even NT people mask to some degree. On line, particularly in a place like this, you could be yourself. Most people wouldn't know you in real life.