PANDAS or autism being targeted as specific groups.
1. an outbreak of autism symptoms almongst refugees.
2. Autism seems to cluster in Somalian refugee groups
Another way to look at this is to ask are refugees more prone to autism or are autistic people more prone to being refugees? The data in these articles actually say prevalence found amongst Somali refugees is the same as amongst white population, so there doesn't seem to be an outbreak, apart from media hype.
Is this NYT one of those alarmist sensationalist hysteria promoted by hate groups that parents should be 'terrified' of autism like of pestilence and pedalling all that sentiment in emotionally exhibitionist way, how much a 'tragedy' the existence of autistic people is for non autistic people.
'Somali refugee community is terrified of autism'... this is redirecting anxiety and attention from real problems towards discrimination against autism, surely they have much more pressing and immediate things to be terrified of?
There is not even evidence in the article that they are autistic. This is just PR for the cure lobby. They could lust have PTSD.
The second article doesn't even mention autism, the prevalence of 'social' amongst learning problems in Table 5 is 0.6%...The conclusion from researchers focuses on trauma, discrimination, hardship etc. as main drivers.
The third article is not about autism science but about social science, specifically about 'theories of embodied health movements', whatever that is. It describes more of the diverting attention and focalizing problems on autism as 'a western disease' and attributing it to one particular autism theory from the scientists promoting the theories of gut bacteria ... it is the promotional infomercial material for gut bacteria cures. The article does not provide or quote any actual data, but just describes from the 'community' thinks about autism, which is :
"Somalies in North America call autism the "Western disease" ... because many believe it does not exist in Somalia. In Toronto, Somali parents have forged an "epistemic community," united around a coherent theory of the development of autism, its defining features, and most successful therapies. They work together with researchers to support the theory that gut bacteria is a causal factor for the development of autism. They argue that it is the diet and medical environment in North America (including the use of preservatives, genetically-modified processing, and antibiotics in both health care and food production) that explains the high rates of autism within the Somali diaspora.'
'The paper argues that race and nationality have been under explored in theories of embodied health movements. I argue that Somali parents' organizing pushes theories of health social movements in new directions, by suggesting that experiences of forced migration and racial exclusion, as well as non-Western cultural ontologies of health, are important for understanding embodied experiences of illness and the forging of "politicized collective illness identities" that challenge mainstream scientific understandings of autism."
Do I get it right that it is suggested that 'the scientific understanding of autism' should be that autism is the thing to blame for forced migration, trauma, hardship, discrimination, social disadvantage and cultural differences?
The last article discusses how rates of diagnosis vary across various communities, probably reflecting cultural attitudes (a 'curse') and differences in access to dx. It states :
"Based on data from 2010, the department estimated that 1 in 32 Somali children in Minneapolis had autism. This number is not much different than the estimated 1 in 36 white children with autism in the city."
So basically when you screen and diagnose a community properly, the prevalence is about the same in various ethnic groups and quite high - note 1 in 32-36, not 1 in 100. I've seen the number 1:35 in a study about New Jersey as well.
Another thing the last article says it that autism in children could be linked to trauma and stress of migration in pregnant mothers.
"..Dheeraj Rai, a psychiatrist at the University of Bristol in the U.K. “This makes us question whether it’s just ethnicity,” Rai says, “or if there’s a role for migration and, particularly, stressful migration.”
The first and only large-scale attempt to dig into the link between migration and autism in the U.S. also implicates a role for maternal stress in autism. That 2014 study was based on data from more than 1.6 million children born in Los Angeles County between 1995 and 2006. It found that children born to women from current or former war zones might be particularly vulnerable to autism. "
I think ultimately we have to just get on with it. Autistic or not we have a responsibility to look after each other. Morally and actually in the law. And if anyone if finding that difficult because of any protected characteristic, then I would rather not be your friend.
What does it matter is if racial profiling helps or not? There will be another paper to prove or disprove it. Like the one in the UK which says.
"Background In March 2009, researchers in the department of health in Minnesota, Minneapolis, USA reported that the number of Somali children, aged 3 to 4 years, who participated in the ASD special educational programs was significantly higher than for children from other ethnic backgrounds.
A study from Sweden in 2008 estimated the prevalence of autism among Somali children in Stockholm County to be 3-4 times higher than children of other ethnic origin.
In our Borough; Somali families observed higher occurrence of ASD in their children and also relatives living in other countries."
"Conclusion The analysis shows a higher prevalence of autism in Somali, Black African and Black Caribbean children which is at least twice the prevalence in all other ethnic groups in our borough. This supports what has previously been reported by other authorities."
And like good scientists we know that this evidence does not always correlate with other places, except in this case above.
What this information helps with is the diagnosis. And some racist opinions. It also helps more children not face being told that their behaviour is unacceptable/bad/"or because they are black." And for parents who are turned away when they present their child for diagnosis and are told it's a parenting issue, neglect or abuse.
The same work is also being done for women, who are being told they are mentally unwell.
We need to correct for attributes for diagnosis, sometimes it's not done.
Lagrangian said:"Conclusion The analysis shows a higher prevalence of autism in Somali, Black African and Black Caribbean children which is at least twice the prevalence in all other ethnic groups in our borough
A clinical psychologist once told me that black Caribbeans are the least likely ethnic group, in Britain, to have Asperger syndrome, high-functioning ASD, or dyspraxia. He doesn't have any clear figures for black Africans due to small numbers and high diversity of such people.
I know a clinical psychologist is human. And we all have a bias. But really, any clinical psychologist would say that every human is actually the same. And because that many black people are not diagnosed does not mean they are not affected. Correlation does not mean Causality. There is a lot of stigma in the black community about the illness. And people often hide children, or downplay or "pray for them". NAS did a report on Autism in the Black community, which also supports the views of many clinical psychologists.
I have also heard some greatful clinical psychologists using their gut to diagnose women. And then doing the research, and then taking a leap of faith. A saying "what else could it be". I hope that many are able to do this with anyone presented regardless of protected characteristics.
All papers or scientific studies are often only true for the group of people being assessed. This is just one study. It needs to be bigger for us to draw any proper conclusions. And also questions need to ask about the data.
Tinyexplorer said:My other point was autistic people might be more prone to migration and to being refugees, and this could be one of the factors about higher prevalence amongst immigrant communities. Come to think of it, US is a nation of immigrants...
The Somali studies could also be based on an evolutionary closed sample. For example, all the refugees might not be able to cope with change as well, and so flee together, Or they were closely related. And therefore the sample of people were all similar and bound to be the same. They say that autism is linked to nomadic genes, having more resilience, stamina. So sadly, only those that were stronger survived the move.
We just don't know. And this is what makes it interesting, to me anyway.
Lagrangian said:I know a clinical psychologist is human. And we all have a bias. But really, any clinical psychologist would say that every human is actually the same. And because that many black people are not diagnosed does not mean they are not affected. Correlation does not mean Causality. There is a lot of stigma in the black community about the illness. And people often hide children, or downplay or "pray for them". NAS did a report on Autism in the Black community, which also supports the views of many clinical psychologists.
It's a known fact in medicine that many conditions which are genetic affect certain clearly defined communities more than others.
If ASD is genetic (and this hasn't been proven) then it's safe to assume that certain communities will be more or less prone to the condition than others.
The clinical psychologist told me that black Caribbeans are, on average, more shifted to the neurotypical end of the spectrum than white western and northern Europeans are, so traits of AS or high-functioning ASD will stand out in children far more than it will for white British children. He believes that the 'hidden' ASD is more likely to be found in Chinese and Hindu Indian children than in black Caribbean children due to cultural factors as well as social and academic expectations.
There is no such thing as the black community. There are probably hundreds of dfferent black communities in Britain - their cultures are different and people from one community don't always get on well with people from other communities.
You have a good point. However, every autistic person is unique. And some don't have the same opportunities as others. Not all are good at math, as you allude to I think, or get violin scholarships. Autistics excel in music, art, and math. Some autistics are very good comedians, musicians, artists. Sounds familiar, sounds very black?
I don't see many Chinese or Malay being diagnosed either. I know they kind of have the same issues with hiding disabled children like some black people. Speaking from my experience.
So stereotypically, and at an extreme, a stereotypical black person is good at music, art, entertainment comedy. (Mr black maths teacher was exceptional)
Recently I got in trouble for taking interest in a person who got diagnosed for autism. They wore a cap, had headphones on, had hair over their eyes. Does this sound like a black person? Sounded just like me. I tried to cope with a lot of external stimuli. I wore black. I was not a goth. I just wore black. Someone commented that I wore a lot of black and should mix it up. I then wore all blue.
Statistically, except for me, some black people fit the profile for an autistic person being arrested by the police and being incarcerated.
It seems very autistic to me. And so that's why the study was done, to adjust for race. It may be skewed. But if we even say the result for black people is half wrong. Then they are equal to white people. The results matched other studies around the world.
Lagrangian said:Autistics excel in music, art, and math. Some autistics are very good comedians, musicians, artists.
Do you know of any rap artists or similar entertainers with ASD?
Lagrangian said:I don't see many Chinese or Malay being diagnosed either. I know they kind of have the same issues with hiding disabled children like some black people.
True but there could be certain cultural factors at play where as long as the child generally performs well academically they mask AS or high-functioning ASD traits in a way that is less likely to occur with white British families.
I personally think that different cultures are better at exposing or concealing (certain aspects of) ASD traits.
Lagrangian said:So stereotypically, and at an extreme, a stereotypical black person is good at music, art, entertainment comedy.
Black Caribbean, yes. Black African, no.
Lagrangian said:And so that's why the study was done, to adjust for race. It may be skewed.
The thing to bear in mind is that the demographic make up of different ethnic groups is different for the US than it is for Britain. Black Americans in the US and black Caribbeans in Britain are NOT analogues or equivalents of each other, so findings for one may not apply to the other. South Asians in the US are heavily skewed towards professional and highly technical occupations whereas in Britain large numbers are employed in low skilled and semi-skilled jobs. Britain doesn't have native Americans or Hispanics in numbers anywhere near those in the US.
I hope I answered your questions, as you are asking for evidence of something, and I'm telling you again why there is no evidence of the kind you want to see. However, there is UK evidence see graph above and the link below.
"A Schrodinger cat argument is why research is needed."
A study looked at UK SEND database to count people with ASD and divide the results into separate ethnic backgrounds.
Firstly my post is about exactly what you re hinting at. Black people are
and therefore cannot be Aspergers. ASD is not linked to intelligence. And not all Aspergers are gifted, in math. music. But that would describe the black community very much.
So perhaps we ll need to look harder? The study did. It looked at they had already done.
Second, the report from the chart was a UK report, from a UK SEND database. The children from 0-19 were already diagnosed. The black diagnosis was twice the white population.
Third, looking for evidence of something before looking is ------ fill in the blank. (why we research, or ad hominin response)
Lastly, my post was about why there is no evidence of a hidden disability. And it was that kind of thinking that meant I was diagnosed in my Postgraduate as having dyslexia. (a life long condition, a hidden disability). It was very surprising to everyone. And still is.
Many people with Aspergers are diagnosed very late. And are trying hard to find evidence even when staring at a report from a psychologist. So can you imagine trying to look for evidence of a hidden disability, where no one is looking, and people are trying to hide it?
Are we talking about the same hidden disability? And you do know that a diagnosis does not change you if you have Asperger/autism/ASD. It merely puts the stamp on the diagnosis, not somehow change the condition.
Also, I'll summerise what I have said. And I realise my argument could also apply to women, Chinese, black people, African people, funny people, poor white men on the spectrum:
To go with your shrodiger argument, I have produced the body of evidence, including black African (see link above). Hiding disabilities (masking) is not the same as physically hiding the disabled I was talking about but the result is the same. As to why a rap artist would come out, that would be suicide. And they probably would not know either. .
You have to bear in mind that not everyone is stereotypical ASD. Mike Tyson is diagnosed with Aspergers. Michael Jackson certainly shows signs of Asperger's Syndrome (AS). http://www.asperger-syndrome.me.uk/people.htm
Benjamin Banneker was an African-American author, surveyor, naturalist, astronomer, inventor, and farmer who lived as a free man in 18th century America. Plenty of contemporary documents refer to Banneker’s “unparalleled brilliance” and “odd methods of behavior,” lending credence to the common idea that Banneker had a high-functioning form of autism. He was known to fixate on certain objects, such as a friend’s watch, until that fixation ultimately led to an experiment or invention of his own. https://www.appliedbehavioranalysisprograms.com/historys-30-most-inspiring-people-on-the-autism-spectrum/
Some say Ella Fitzgerald's perfect pitch, creativity, is a good sign. But some non asd people have perfect pitch.
As to prevalence in the US. Again it's the same argument of looking for evidence before looking. I'm sure there are and has been proven that their are UK black people with ASD.
We should look for the signs not the obvious black and white, or the man or woman of things.
Thanks for posting.
Lagrangian said:I hope I answered your questions, as you are asking for evidence of something, and I'm telling you again why there is no evidence of the kind you want to see. However, there is UK evidence see graph above and the link below.
If you read my OP it mentioned Asperger syndrome and high-functioning ASD, and not the entire ASD spectrum.
The clinical psychologist stated "least likely ethnic group" but neither he nor myself have ever made claims that these conditions do not exist at all in any ethnic groups.
I'm quite distrustful of the findings of research into ASD and mental health from the US but that's a different story.
The NAS uses the British Census ethnic groups to categorise the users of its services but my local AS support group is very critical of this system of classification and believes that it is not representative of modern society.
Thanks for replying. I may have not remembered. I try to separate my anger for injustice versus helping information seekers. But it bleeds through.
Census and discrimination. discrimination more research into an all-male orchestra. They said they were not biased, it was just men were better. When blindfolded they selected a few women.
We are all bias. There is no point pretending that places are not bias. Some top university secretaries were seen to put applicants whose names did not match to the bottom of the pile. Even though the background were identical.
My solution is to remove, name, address, and any other protected characteristics from applications. To put on a blindfold.