Can an suspected Aspergers Husband seem very non ASD when things are going well?

Hi,

New to all this.  I am in the middle of a separation.  My youngest has been assessed and has been recommended to go for further assessment/diagnosis for ASD.  Given what I have learned especially recently I really believe my soon to be ex has Aspergers.  I am no expert but when I look at the lists and characteristics and even when I had the private assessment it all fell into place.

My questions is can an Aspergers person appear quite high functioning on daily basis, socially, warm, gentle and caring even though I see his other social side.  I know he doesn't have any real friends and he is a bit anxious when he has to go out with our friends or eg make a complaint etc. 

In my experience where he is really struggling is when I approach him for help usually regarding the kids eg having problems with school, their development.  He "usually" is either not too interested or behaves defensively.  This up to recently didn't make sense as I was not arguing with him.  I might have been pushing for help and fustrated by his reaction and then it would usually lead to an "argument".  I highlight "arguement" but these were 95% of the time him being quiet, blank, saying he had to think about it, changing what he meant, contradicting him self, being dishonest me using metaphors and trying to explain what I meant.  Basically lots of me pulling my hair and feeling like it was all gaslighting.   We never really have resolved anything and he 90% of the time has never taken responsibility or apologised because he says that I always have it wrong, I have been critical, I am being dramatic etc  I actually believe he believes it and I do not think he has the ability to put him self in my shoes (empathy).  I believe he loves our sons dearly but I see this tested when it doesn't suit him.  One eg since my sons assessment he has never looked up anything or made any appointments or come to me to discuss this.  My ds is having a lot of trouble in the school and as he says "he is busy trying to deal with his life because of our breakup".  I believe him.

Is it possible that he has it all together, sees nothing wrong, that he is able to go to work every day even when we were separating and now through all this new news, is able to function, is pleasant and appears very caring especially to our children and others.  Hope I make sense.  I just can't believe where I am having to deal with all this on my own.  He either truly doesn't see what is really going on and when I point it out I think he kind of hears it but nothing changes.  I have tried to ask if he would go for an assessment and he says he doesn't see the point.  I said whats the harm but he keeps trying to change the subject.  I have been as gentle as possible about this and have made a big effort for to load him with all this request.  I mentioned it a month ago.  It would be a great help if he did.  Even if we never got back as it would give us the tools to be better parents and it would really help me and the kids.

Rant over.  Would really appreciate your help on what feels like the Jackal and Hyde side of this, maybe its masking?  So many questions......Thanks

  • I agree, Plastic has answered the question really well. I find that masking is really hard if I'm anxious. 

  • Can you suggest what I do to make his life happier?

    Why 'his life'? Why not 'our life'?

    I can't offer any direct advice than to find out about late diagnosis of autism and see if the traits apply... if they do then work together to understand how both of your needs can be met.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Diagnosis-Asperger-Syndrome-Spectrum-Disorder-ebook/dp/B00M7D714Q/ref=dp_kinw_strp_1

    The main thing is probably to understand the different ways you both communicate and the likely misunderstandings this can cause.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Field-Guide-Earthlings-autistic-neurotypical-ebook/dp/B004EPYUV2/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=field+guide+to+neurotypical&qid=1561725704&s=digital-text&sr=1-1

    Then, understand what 'trigger' issues he has i.e. sensory overload, how to spot the signs and agree what is an acceptable way to avoid them or to 'decompress' after experiencing them.

  • I liked your succinct reply. We too have no kids and I have only recently started to think my husband has autism. Held down (no, succeeded in) a high pressure job.  Very much wants to be in his own company (out by himself now, though can be in the same room ‘by himself’). Can you suggest what I do to make his life happier?

  • It sounds like you're both having a rough time and his likely ASD means he can't provide the support you need.

    Be kind to yourselves, be kind to each other.

    Be there for your kids - my mum has a postcard in her kitchen that says:

    "You owe your parents nothing and your kids everything"

    While I think this a bit skewed, the sentiment behind it is that your kids didn't choose to exist, you chose to create them - so you owe them for that.

    You'll get through this and a find a 'new normal' that works for your family.

    Best.

    OP

  • Thanks again Plastic,

    I really appreciate your perspective on this.  I don't even think its necessary to go ahead with the label side of things as long as the problems are highlighted and understood, then that's when a person can progress and start to grow again.  I truly believe "a problem is only a problem when it interferes with your life".  Here's to growing ....

    Regards

    DMSR

  • Thanks Prankster,

    Yes definitely see your points.  Knew something wasn't right for years but only in certain situations (important ones!). 

    I really see that he is really genuinely, really struggling - but so am I!  Probably just as much and obviously in my own way.  I have suffered and nearly had a break down because of this.  But I am trying to be the strong one for my 3 boys, work full time, run the house, look up and understand my kids issues now with ASD, solve the problems with the school and do this all this on my own while he sits in his room with his door closed and him telling me he is doing just as much as me.  All his family and my family do not understand why I decided to separate.  They have accused me of being ungrateful, never happy, something mentally wrong with me etc (depends on the person).  So I have no one to confide in.  He has everyone.  Its ironic really.  Everyone is there for him and he doesn't want it.  I am dying to confide in someone and they are not interested in me!  So I have gotten myself a good counsellor and visited her every week for the past year.  This is where I have mainly moved on and ex-hubby can't understand.

    I am sorry, rant over - I am feeling very sorry for my self and very angry at how unfair this all is right now!  I am sure this will change over time.

    Thanks Prankster, I really appreciate your insight, advice and time you have given me.  This is all very helpful to me.  You might hear from me again:)

    Regards

    DMSR

  • You're most welcome Smiley

    The reason he looks and functions normally at work or in other situations is because his mask operates quite efficiently in those places - almost on autopilot.   He's as comfortable as he can be - it's under control.

    It when he's put somewhere where the mask has proven useless than he's back to square one - no tools to use so he will look erratic and unpredictable as his mind is scrabbling around for modes of operation - some of which may be contradictory.

    He used to be able to rely on his mask when dealing with you - but life has become complicated and his reliable interactions with you are now all wrong - and, in his opinion, he hasn't changed at all - so it must be your fault.

    Which is sort-of true - you've grown and adapted - he's still in the starting blocks.

    Are you able to sit him down and explain to him that all the old things are still true - they're just obscured by recent events and the complication of children?    Ask him about his abilities to cope with all the changes - he may be so stressed that he can't see the wood for the trees.

    I tell him what he should  be doing.  I knew he would just go off and technically done what I said but in a false way.  Then he would be able to say - "see I am doing that, its you that is in the "wrong".

    That's him asking for reassurance and clear instructions - he's almost crying out for help - but not able to figure out how to ask for help.

    In these crisis situations, he's literally a child needing direction - but with a layer of adult pride nailed on top as a defence against being hurt.

    I would suggest mentioning to him that autism is often hereditary and his behaviours seem to be similar to your youngest's

    Tell him that, while a diagnosis will not really help him in a big way, it would make you both understand what his life is really like and may be able to give you both the tools to assist your youngest - you from an outsider point of view, him from an insider view,.(you're an observer, he's actually experiencing the end result).

    Make the parallel and he might see the sense in a diagnosis so he can gather information about himself and how he can plan and put things in place to help your youngest.

    You can then form a team rather than two separate opinions.

  • Is it possible that he has it all together, sees nothing wrong, that he is able to go to work every day even when we were separating and now through all this new news, is able to function, is pleasant and appears very caring especially to our children and others.

    Assuming he is autistic...

    Yes - what else is he going to do? But you have realise that:

     - this is likely to be a 'defensive' response to the major upheaval in his/your life

     - it'll be absolutely exhausting for him to do

     - if he stops 'functioning' it'll likely mean he heads into an autistic burnout

     - if he carries on 'functioning' by masking harder than ever it'll likely mean he heads into an autistic burnout

    I just can't believe where I am having to deal with all this on my own.

    Hmmm... <lack of empathy/sympathy warning> yeah, and he's getting sooo much support for what he's going through, eh?

    If he's autistic then he's having to deal with everything you describe while at the same time being neurologically wired to not respond in the way you and the rest of the world expect, but has been expending vast amounts of energy trying his damndest to fit in to a world that doesn't make sense...

    I have tried to ask if he would go for an assessment and he says he doesn't see the point.  I said whats the harm but he keeps trying to change the subject.  I have been as gentle as possible about this and have made a big effort for to load him with all this request.  I mentioned it a month ago.  It would be a great help if he did.  Even if we never got back as it would give us the tools to be better parents and it would really help me and the kids.

    There are a number of people here who would say that a diagnosis does more harm than good, that being 'labelled' as autistic causes problems at work, socially etc. and brings no support...

    Others, would argue that it allows better understanding both for the person diagnosed and those around them and can mean (as you point out) that it enables you to get on better as individuals and by extension be the best parents you can be.

    But it has to be his choice.

    And you have to be prepared to communicate on his terms, not as a concession... but because he's probably already stretching himself to the limit to appear

    high functioning on daily basis, socially, warm, gentle and caring

    This is unlikely to be the answer you were after, but it's one that is based on my own experience of being the ASD partner...

    I hope you can work this out but you need to be prepared that if he does have ASD (even if you don't get a formal diagnosis) it'll mean shifting your perspective and being prepared to work hard (both of you) at making it a success.

  • 100%, in fact I'd go so far as to say you appear to be following the 'standard' pattern for late diagnosis of autism...

     - meet partner, get on great

     - get married, maybe a few issues but usually OK

     - have kid(s)

     - spot issues with kid(s)

     - get diagnosis of autism

     - spot that ;the apple doesn't see to have fallen far from the tree'

     - previous things about partner suddenly 'make sense' when viewed via the lens of autism/asperger sysndrome

    ...

    There are then 2 likely endings - 

    1. acceptance and accommodation of the new information on both sides leading to an ongoing positive relationship or

    2. one/both sides refuses to accept/accommodate the new reality... no fun for anyone

    It's what the others have said...

     - years (decades) of masking but that mask starting to crumble

     - classic 'solution not sympathy' approach to issues

     - not understanding what is required on an instinctive 'NT' level so needing explicit instructions

     - carrying out instructions as specified then being berated for 'doing it wrong' i.e. doing what was specified, not what was meant

    I'm a recently diagnosed ASD man of 47 who's been married 12 years (together for 17 come August), no kids but otherwise we fit the pattern... just substitute 'portrayals of people with ASD in the media sparked recognition' for 'child gets diagnosis of autism'...

  • I see the wisdom of a diagnosis but how or can I convince him?

    It has to come from him and be his idea. I was told for years I have autism/Aspergers but it didn't even register. (My mom always knew as she works with adults with learning difficulties - has done the majority of her career so can spot it a mile off). It took a severe cycle of depression for me to take it on board. When I adopted it as my own idea and did a bit of research and found a set of words that explained exactly who I was I decided to pursue a diagnosis. Stubbornness comes as part of the package!

    But it all comes down to the fact you are just two different human beings, it's natural to mis-communicate. It sounds like you're undecided on the future of your relationship - that's more important than a diagnosis. You mentioned about telling him exactly what to do - this is exactly what I ask my partner to do for me. There are times she's feeling down and just wants to vent and be cuddled and other times when she genuinely wants a solution to a problem (I always go down the emotionless solution, problem-solving route). I ask her to tell me exactly what she wants now and she does and we both feel good - she gets exactly what she wants and I'm happy knowing I've fulfilled her wants. I cannot tell the difference between a standard NT request for a hug and a request for help, they appear the same to me. I also can only tell an emotion on one level "she is feeling sad" - I have no idea the depth of that sadness. On that basis maybe agree a convenient time to discuss things and say them exactly as they are? It might even be best to write a list, as factual and emotion-free as possible.

  • Thanks ElephantintheRoom

  • Hi Plastic,

    We "spoke" before recently (I have changed my profile name from the default one given to me).  Thank you again.  I am probably over lapping on questions and information etc at the moment. 

    Yes you have described perfectly to me where he is at, better that I could have!  That's insight for ya!!  Yes when he has been fustrated with me and I have told him that my needs in general are not being met, he was pretty much demanding that I tell him what he should  be doing.  I knew he would just go off and technically done what I said but in a false way.  Then he would be able to say - "see I am doing that, its you that is in the "wrong".

    I see the wisdom of a diagnosis but how or can I convince him?  I know its his choice and I cannot and should not try to control him.  I know he is in denial and know he is very anxious and doesn't really see it.  I guess it may take time and considerable patience on my part.

    Thanks a million Plastic!

  • Hi

    There’s a good chance that he has Asperger’s.

    We tend to use a mask that gives a comfortable user-interface to the outside world.    We often develop this in our teens when we realise we are so different to everyone else so we try to mimic to fit in.   It’s incredibly stressful and tiring to be working on 3 levels all the time – the real us, the fake us and the translation program running all the time between the two.

    Because this is so difficult, when we achieve a mask that appears to function well enough, this is what we stick with.

    It normally gets us through a number of years but as life gets more complicated, cracks begin to show.    It’s these cracks that people notice as odd behaviour.   It’s our inner ‘autie’ popping out.

    It sounds like your husbands mask is cracking everywhere so he’s looking more and more strange as he is unable to find an appropriate mode for his mask that works.    His life has become too complex for his basic mask to cope so he’s lost – he’s got no idea how he’s supposed to behave – there’s no previous model to mimic so your NT demands are unfathomable to him.     His inability to communicate is probably him having no data to work with.  

    Diagnosis would probably help him accept who he is and that he has shortcomings that you both will need to discuss – but if you apply emotion on top of any discussion, it will confuse him more – he needs plain data to work with so he can build a new version of himself incorporating the extra parts.

    Btw - I’m an Asperger’s man – married for nearly 30 years to NT lady and we have one child.