Self-Obsession???

A thought occurred to me when I was washing the dishes, a few minutes ago, or rather it was more of a question. I thought, I wonder if somebody can be so self-obsessed that they don’t even know it, even after they have been told they are, via a diagnosis of autism. Or are there really some autistic people who aren’t self-obsessed, and what would that look like?

Maybe this is the people who are on what is commonly referred to as the ‘mild’ end of the spectrum. But if so, what would bring that type of a person forward for an assessment in the first place or how would they have got picked up as kids? What types of difficulties or struggles do they have and what makes it autism and not something else, such as OCD or social anxiety or whatever? 

This whole conversation about self-obsession has really piqued my curiosity and obviously, as an autistic person, I don’t see other people’s points of view easily, unless it is spelled out to me in a way I can understand. So, I’m just wondering, is there a whole other level of autism that I am unaware of?

This is for curiosity as much as to see if it’s my autistic brain blindsiding me again, because I know I fall into the basic understanding of autism, meaning selfism, and obviously, being autistic, I assumed all other autistic people are that way as well. I know we are all sooooooooooo different, of course we are, we are human beings, all human beings are different, but I thought as autistic people, the one identifying factor, that we all share, is the thing the condition (for want of a better word) is named after, which is, of course, self-ism.

You can be sure you’re self-obsessed by certain outward signs. The signs the psychiatrists use to diagnosis and identify us. Such as difficulties in school, not making friends as easily as most of the other kids, maybe getting picked on, a history of many different jobs, generally well below a person’s capability, difficulties in personal relationships including difficulties sometimes with family members, not achieving full protentional, all those kinds of things. Which all stem from the self-obsession. But you can also be self-obsessed without those outward signs, I don’t think I had or have that many of them and I think there are many of us who don’t show the ‘typical’ types of outward signs.

I’m just wondering what none self-obsessed autistic people struggle with and why they aren’t diagnosed with that instead of autism? Or have I just missed the point all together, lol, (which wouldn’t be for the first time) and autism is something else altogether?

I also learned yesterday that some people, apparently, at least one person anyway, has a negative connotation attached to the words self-obsession and selfish. I was unaware that those words could have any negative connotations so for those who do have those negative connotations, I’m not using these words in a negative way, whatever that could be. If anybody has got better words to use instead, where people don’t have negative connotations then tell us what they are. Autism literally means, self-ism, so I fail to see how anything to do with the self can be negative, but of course, that’s just me Blush

Anyway, this is me, doing what I can to avoid doing my course work, lol, and now I’m going to avoid it some more and take my little self for a walk through the woods to rendezvous with the trees and nature for a couple of hours.

Hope you are all having a great day V tone4Heartpulse

Parents
  • I think the difficulty stems from equating a formal diagnosis of autism with an informal one of self obsession, as in your original question

    I wonder if somebody can be so self-obsessed that they don’t even know it, even after they have been told they are, via a diagnosis of autism

    The two are not eqivalent.  Being identified as autistic is NOT the same as being told you're self obsessed and any autism specialist who erroneously told someone that would be being quite unprofessional to say the least.  Many in my family are extremely kind and generous, leading to behaviours that would be considered selfless in anyone's eyes.  And i think that's true of many autistics.  A highly developed consience and strong sense of ethics are very often part of our make up, although, as others have suggested, selfish behaviours are not the sole preserve of NTs and feature across the population.  More of a human thing, really.

    You can be sure you’re self-obsessed by certain outward signs. The signs the psychiatrists use to diagnosis and identify us. Such as difficulties in school, not making friends as easily as most of the other kids, maybe getting picked on, a history of many different jobs, generally well below a person’s capability, difficulties in personal relationships including difficulties sometimes with family members, not achieving full protentional, all those kinds of things. Which all stem from the self-obsession.

    I disagree.  These "outward signs" might indicate a problem, but not its origins.  For example, difficulties at school and not making friends easily can occur for any number of reasons, some of which may well be more to do with the culture of the school than any supposed fault with the individual.  In a culture of inclusion and acceptance, for example, such issues might not materialise at all.  Plus in any case the diagnostic criteria used by psychiatrists are derived from the medical model, usually the DSM, which focuses exclusively on a few key areas (usually seen as deficits) rather than the whole person (which might show a very different picture).  i don't think it can be assumed that difficulties "all stem from the self obbsession".

    I do think that there can be certain problems relating to difference and how this is received which might lead a person towards increased self focus, but from my own experience this has tended to relate to increased sensitivity which in itself I see as a neutral quality.  It can lead to heightened perception and awareness, but also more excuciating experience of setbacks.  There might also be bullying or abuse, which I lay firmly at the door of the perpetrators and their own faults, including selfishness and inability to empathise with others.  

    Over and above that, words such as selfish or self obsessed clearly have negative connotations in our culture and by and large nobody will thank you for accusing them of these tendencies.   Selfish and self obsessed behaviours are, however, commonplace irrespective of neurotype so the chances are that we will fall into them sometimes.  

    I also think it's hard to make generalisations anyway.  Autistics are clearly not a homogenous group, to the extent that some would doubt the validity of the diagnosis anyway (see the work of Sami Timimi, for example).  So I would advise taking as you find and steering clear of pronouncements that will probably be seen as derogatory.  .        

  • I see it the other way around. I think it would be more compassionate and helpful, if the professional diagnosing autism, actually explained to the person diagnosed, what it actually meant. That the word itself means self-ism, the word autos/auto means self. I don’t understand why people think that you can’t be caring if your selfish and self obsessed. Look at Mother Teresa. She was one of the most selfish self obsessed people you could come across yet her good work towards others continues to this day. I don’t get the connection between self obsessed and selfish and not caring about other people or animals and the planet. 

    Isn’t everybody selfish? Why does anybody do anything? I just thought autistic people had an elevated sense of this, which is what distinguishes them from the rest of society and enables us to be the (mostly) unconditionally loving souls that we are. Clearly people at the milder end of the spectrum are not quite as unconditionally loving, as they seem to care more (than us at the higher end) about what other people say etc etc or how they will be judged by society instead of just being honest and speaking their truth. So maybe it’s just a difference between people at the milder end of the spectrum, so to speak and those of us at the higher end, who are often totally oblivious to the outside world and therefore we don’t learn all the judgements and values etc that people at the milder end seem to have, which seems to stop them from loving unconditionally. 

    I never said the outward signs were origin. That’s not even possible! Thinking Otherwise they would be the origin and not signs?!?!? 

    I don’t think it can be ‘assumed’ that all difficulties come from self obsession. I don’t think the medical profession are basing their findings on ‘assumptions’, I think they delve a little deeper than that. What have ‘qualities’ got to do with autism? Autism isn’t a value judgement or a choice, is a neurological brain developmental thing. Although people like to call me names and tell me to leave the autism site, for being autistic, I can’t help being autistic, I didn’t choose to be this way. I didn’t choose to be blunt and honest and to love all people, equally, without having the ability to judge them like they seem to judge me. I can’t censor my words like nt and some autistic people. I can, sometimes, to some degree, but it’s exhausting and makes me not want to live. If I can’t be myself, why bother being here? Maybe you all think I should just go and kill myself because I can’t say the right things at the right time and in a nice soft flowery way like you lot. Maybe I should just go and die? 

    Those words might have negative connotations in your culture, but I’m not part of your culture, I’m autistic, and I thought people here would understand that. I haven't accused anybody of anything, you don’t accuse somebody of being autistic, they’re born that way. I was simply speaking my truth about my understanding of autism, people do t have to agree with me, I’m not god, it’s simply the way my autistic brain sees the world.

    I think with all this advice, telling me to not speak my truth, to keep quite, say something else that sounds nice instead, or to simply shut up and go away, is probably right. I think I should probably do that because it’s simply too hard, too exhausting and too soul destroying for me to simply try to second guess everything I say to try and make sure I don’t upset somebody. Thanks. I have learned a lot from being here but I can see that autistic people of my type, aren’t welcome here and no, I don’t take it personally, but there’s no fun in being somewhere where people don’t want you. 

    Like you said, the difference might be in the severity that one experiences autism and if they’re diagnosed or not. I’m not, by any stretch of the imagination ‘mildly’ autistic, I have 4 support workers and one that still supports me unofficially, and I’m still not able to even do the basics of every day living yet. Maybe I need to find a group that is more severe if I want to be accepted and supported. Thank you. That’s a good tip. 

Reply
  • I see it the other way around. I think it would be more compassionate and helpful, if the professional diagnosing autism, actually explained to the person diagnosed, what it actually meant. That the word itself means self-ism, the word autos/auto means self. I don’t understand why people think that you can’t be caring if your selfish and self obsessed. Look at Mother Teresa. She was one of the most selfish self obsessed people you could come across yet her good work towards others continues to this day. I don’t get the connection between self obsessed and selfish and not caring about other people or animals and the planet. 

    Isn’t everybody selfish? Why does anybody do anything? I just thought autistic people had an elevated sense of this, which is what distinguishes them from the rest of society and enables us to be the (mostly) unconditionally loving souls that we are. Clearly people at the milder end of the spectrum are not quite as unconditionally loving, as they seem to care more (than us at the higher end) about what other people say etc etc or how they will be judged by society instead of just being honest and speaking their truth. So maybe it’s just a difference between people at the milder end of the spectrum, so to speak and those of us at the higher end, who are often totally oblivious to the outside world and therefore we don’t learn all the judgements and values etc that people at the milder end seem to have, which seems to stop them from loving unconditionally. 

    I never said the outward signs were origin. That’s not even possible! Thinking Otherwise they would be the origin and not signs?!?!? 

    I don’t think it can be ‘assumed’ that all difficulties come from self obsession. I don’t think the medical profession are basing their findings on ‘assumptions’, I think they delve a little deeper than that. What have ‘qualities’ got to do with autism? Autism isn’t a value judgement or a choice, is a neurological brain developmental thing. Although people like to call me names and tell me to leave the autism site, for being autistic, I can’t help being autistic, I didn’t choose to be this way. I didn’t choose to be blunt and honest and to love all people, equally, without having the ability to judge them like they seem to judge me. I can’t censor my words like nt and some autistic people. I can, sometimes, to some degree, but it’s exhausting and makes me not want to live. If I can’t be myself, why bother being here? Maybe you all think I should just go and kill myself because I can’t say the right things at the right time and in a nice soft flowery way like you lot. Maybe I should just go and die? 

    Those words might have negative connotations in your culture, but I’m not part of your culture, I’m autistic, and I thought people here would understand that. I haven't accused anybody of anything, you don’t accuse somebody of being autistic, they’re born that way. I was simply speaking my truth about my understanding of autism, people do t have to agree with me, I’m not god, it’s simply the way my autistic brain sees the world.

    I think with all this advice, telling me to not speak my truth, to keep quite, say something else that sounds nice instead, or to simply shut up and go away, is probably right. I think I should probably do that because it’s simply too hard, too exhausting and too soul destroying for me to simply try to second guess everything I say to try and make sure I don’t upset somebody. Thanks. I have learned a lot from being here but I can see that autistic people of my type, aren’t welcome here and no, I don’t take it personally, but there’s no fun in being somewhere where people don’t want you. 

    Like you said, the difference might be in the severity that one experiences autism and if they’re diagnosed or not. I’m not, by any stretch of the imagination ‘mildly’ autistic, I have 4 support workers and one that still supports me unofficially, and I’m still not able to even do the basics of every day living yet. Maybe I need to find a group that is more severe if I want to be accepted and supported. Thank you. That’s a good tip. 

Children
  • I am simply putting forward the view that, at least within my circle, sensitivity rather than selfishness is central to autistic experience.  Due to high sensitvity, my own threshold for defensiveness and then retreat/withdrawal is probably much lower than that of many so this is something I have to make allowances for in order to keep life as pleasant as possible.  I can see it coming and have to head it off.

    With that in mind, I will say that i contributed to this thread hoping it could remain dispassionate and not simply turn into an overflow of other threads that seem to have gone badly wrong.  I was wrong and so I'm bowing out of this.  I don't want anyone to "shut up and go away" but I don't want to feel that posts are turning into an argument either.

    What I would urge is that everyone keep themselves safe and do whatever is needed to dissipate any negativity around this subject.  Whatever's in your toolbox, whatever contacts can be called upon, whatever activities help, go for it.

    My own preference on this sunny day is to seek a bit of tranquility outside.  Before I disappear, though, i'm starting another thread on something I hope is neutral - gardening.  So, if anyone would like to join me there, that'd be great. 

       

     

  • I apologise. My reply earlier on is based on a not broad enough understanding of Autism on my part. There are Autistic people who aren't introverts.