Job Possibilities

Hello,

I am a uni student in life sciences at a top UK university, top student in my class, straight As, won a few awards. I have extensive customer service experience, and some limited experience in life sciences research but I don't think any of my references would speak particularly highly of me. Due to my Asperger's syndrome, I find social interaction and practical tasks hard and struggle in the workplace despite my qualifications on paper making me look like an excellent candidate. I get extremely anxious and low when things go wrong, even when it's not my fault, to the point of planning my own suicide whilst in some jobs. Other jobs I have coped slightly better, but I still do not enjoy them and do not excel at them, and they do not give me the 'space' to improve my mental health. 

I want input from others with autism/or with experience with autistic people on what I should do in terms of a job for the future after graduation? The natural career progression for me now is to do a PhD, but I'm not sure if I'll get in due to a lack of networking skills. Even if I do, I might struggle and become very stressed if I can't pick up the technique, or things don't go to plan. A research job would follow this. I'm also very motivated by money, and although I would accept the minimum wage for the good of my health, I'd at least like the possibility of making more. I will give a list of my characteristics below and see if anyone has any suggestions for jobs that might be suitable for me after graduation.

  • Low pressure level - not life or death, or dealing with large amounts of money, or tiny time frames - so mistakes are not too costly
  • Preferably simple tasks physically (e.g. on a computer, rather than complex lab work) that still challenge me mentally
  • You are given space and time away from people to carry out the job, rather than being put on the spot
  • No members of the public
  • Preferably biology related
  • Inclusive environment (not a every-man-for-himself competitive path)
  • Liveable wage

 

Parents
  • Hi there. You've pointed out a lot of key factors of how you would like your ideal job to be like and what possible difficulties that you may encounter if you do a PhD. I think these are all excellent points. Perhaps you can discuss your concerns with some professors at uni? 

    I'm not sure if you have considered, or if you would like the idea, of doing a Masters degree or a couple years of Research Assistant before doing PhD? I think a Masters / RA jobs would be a lot less stressful compared to a PhD, and there is often a lot more support / structure. You can perhaps get a better idea of what doing graduate level research would be like, have more time to acquire technical skills, and decide whether or not this kind of environment is what you enjoy. And if you like it, you can apply for a PhD next year. There's really no rush, and the extra time you've taken to consider and learn other things may help in the long run. No one really cares about your age during the PhD. 

    For your question about jobs after graduation. I think there are lots of research-related jobs if not staying in academia. Bio-tech companies, pharmaceutical companies, science parks, NHS research. I wonder if you might be interested in autism-related research? Your uni probably has a career service that you could consult with someone about your interests and see if they have any suggestions?

    You are very talented. You are currently in a top uni and having good grades. Good luck! 

  • Unfortunately I can't afford to do a Masters, as there is no financial support for those. I've consulted with my uni service before, but all their suggestions required me to do a second undergrad degree, which again I couldn't afford. Don't you need some post-graduate experience to do a research assistant post?

    My degree won't qualify me to work within an NHS post as it's not accredited, and the other options still require a PhD in my field although they are outside academia. Autism research interests me a lot, but I think I would be turned away because my diagnosis might introduce a bias working in that field, and as DragonCat16 has usefully stated, I think I would need to be honest about my condition if I wanted to find the right post for me. Plus, I think my issue is that any of these options would be too stressful or difficult jobs for me to do. My issue is that my good grades don't translate into me being a good employee because of my autism. I'm trying to think of a job that wouldn't be stressful. I was thinking about being a cleaner, but I'm scared of being turned away for being overqualified. I can't really think of any other options. Suggestions along those kind of lines, where there's no pressure or expectations, would be useful. 

Reply
  • Unfortunately I can't afford to do a Masters, as there is no financial support for those. I've consulted with my uni service before, but all their suggestions required me to do a second undergrad degree, which again I couldn't afford. Don't you need some post-graduate experience to do a research assistant post?

    My degree won't qualify me to work within an NHS post as it's not accredited, and the other options still require a PhD in my field although they are outside academia. Autism research interests me a lot, but I think I would be turned away because my diagnosis might introduce a bias working in that field, and as DragonCat16 has usefully stated, I think I would need to be honest about my condition if I wanted to find the right post for me. Plus, I think my issue is that any of these options would be too stressful or difficult jobs for me to do. My issue is that my good grades don't translate into me being a good employee because of my autism. I'm trying to think of a job that wouldn't be stressful. I was thinking about being a cleaner, but I'm scared of being turned away for being overqualified. I can't really think of any other options. Suggestions along those kind of lines, where there's no pressure or expectations, would be useful. 

Children
  • Great. Let me know how you get on aralez and if I can ever be of any help, please let me know and I will always do my best to help. It's been great chatting to you. 

  • Yes, I agree with the possible stress associated with a Masters. I just thought it could be another possibility, to serve as a transition between now and a PhD (and maybe a backup plan). But it's good that you know what you want. The PhD does have higher chances of funding and more time to settle down. I wish you the best of luck with your PhD as well as future job applications Slight smile

  • Thank you aralez for what you said about me, I really appreciate that and like you, I appreciate honesty and clear speaking, even if I don’t agree with it, it makes it easier for me to understand so I used to get baffled when people didn’t like my honesty and straight talking. I often come across as aggressive, insensitive, selfish, argumentative and even last week, I was thrown out of an art gallery! Lol! But we can work on our communication skills but not in an attempt to ‘fit in’ but in an attempt to create harmonious relationships where people can communicate and get on, despite the differences.  

    Yes, I understand that some of your challenges will be related to autism and mental health problems and you’re already addressing them, which is great. 

    As far as the minimum wage thing is concerned. I’m not saying don’t go for minimum wage, because there’s nothing wrong with that at all, I’m just saying frame it slightly differently. For example, I will get paid a wage that meets my abilities and needs at that time - which could be the minimum wage but it might not be but by saying it this way, you open yourself up to more opportunities. 

    I’ve given up talking to my parents, because as you say, they grew up in different times and their experiences could not be repeated now. But it’s great that you have such good role models in that despite their lack of formal education, they still successed to bring home good incomes and have a nice life. 

    You sound like a wonderful person with a very balanced outlook on life. If people don’t take the time to get to know you then maybe they weren’t the people you need in your life. 

    And trust me, it’s your birth right to be motivated by money. Not in a way that says oh, I can earn lots of money and that will mean I’m great, but in the way that you should be paid for the quality and value you bring to the table and in a way then enables you to have a nice life. You weren’t put on this earth to be denied experiences and money enables us to have those experiences. 

    Honestly, you sound like a lovely person and if there’s one thing in life that I’ve learned, it’s that we absolutely have to have at least one person in our lives who is committed to helping us reach our dreams. We have to get clear on what we want and have a plan to bring it into reality. We need help with that and there is help out there. 

  • I see what your saying. I still think it's a part of my mental health problems though. Although I'm getting professional help with that so hopefully I'll begin to think in better ways soon.

    I suppose I'm scared to aim for more than the minimum wage because it looks bad to be motivated by money. Plus, if I aim for more and don't get it, I'll be disappointed with myself and mourn what I can't have more than if I just go on the assumption I'll never have it.

    I find I express myself well through written words. I have very poor verbal and physical social skills though. I come across as rude, awkward and negative, but I don't mean to be. It's just I don't know how to act because of my autism. I like people really, but getting them to like me is so difficult.

    It's sad that some think that, I think you are just honest, and I like that because I can understand it easily.

    I think it's just because I try to talk to my parents and they're so out of touch. They've suggested things like zoo keeper, vet nurse, accounts, not understanding that you need a specific degree to do these jobs in our generation! They've both done many different jobs without ever having any qualifications and are now on good salaries, but that's due to the world they grew up in. My poor brother has decent grades and work experience and can't even land himself retail or factory work. It's a different world now.

    Your advice is good! And it's so nice that you've taken the time to reply to me in such length :)

  • You’ve already got a really positive mindset aralez and like I said, I think you’re doing great, you just need some support to help you figure it all out. 

    As I said, you’re asking all the right questions and you’re doing all the right things, reaching out etc so please give yourself tons of credit. 

    I wasn’t referring to your challenges with autism or mental health, but rather your mindset, which underpins everything. Our words hold a lot of power. For example, somebody might say, I want to loose weight. Then they loose some weight, say 1 pound, so they have achieved their goal yet they’re unhappy because now they want to loose more weight but they didn’t specify that in the beginning, they just said they wanted to lose weight and then they got all unhappy when they didn’t  keep on losing it. 

    We create our realities by what we think and believe and the by the decisions and intentions that we make. You’re limiting yourself by saying you want to earn the minimum wage. That instantly cuts you off from the possibility of a great job that pays over the minimum wage which might be more suitable to you. 

    There is a part of the brain called the reticular activating system that filters out the things we don’t want (a job that pays more than the minimum wage) and enables us to see only the things we do want (a job with minimum wage) so you have to be careful with how you use words and intentions etc. And you can see the reticular activating system in operation when, for example, you decide you want a new red car and all of a sudden, you begin to see red cars everywhere. This is the reticular activating system doing its job. 

    And who says you’ve got inept social skills? You’ve got excellent social skills. Most people get offended by what I say, they take what I say personally and as an insult or they take it the wrong way then they not only go on to defend themselves but to attack me as well. You did none of that. You’ve got great social skills. But like me, you probably aren’t at your best in the mix of this fast paced society, that often values money etc over people and where people are often too busy to take the time to really give attention to the person they’re talking to. You only have to look around to see how inept the greatest number of people are at social skills. We wouldn’t have so much conflict and war in the world if people had better social skills. Please don’t compare yourself against neurotypical people’s social skills because really, are they really that great? Would the world be like it is today if the majority of people living in it had great social skills? 

    You say it’s hard to consider other options in this current climate - things have never been better and even during the times of the great depressions, people were able to amass great fortunes, despite the depression. We are living in astonishing times and we have so many more ways of making an income than we did a hundred years ago. You just need some support. Somebody to sit down with you, one to one, and talk this through with you and come up with a plan. We can’t do that by ourselves. Nobody can, autistic or not. You need somebody on your side, who understands and appreciates your challenges, and who has the ability to help you work through this to help you create a wonderful life for you, whatever that may look like and regardless of what anybody else thinks. It isn’t easy and I’ve got 51 years of experience behind me. I’m not saying it’s easy and I’m not saying you’re doing anything wrong, quite the opposite, I’m simply offering my support, from my perspective, and if it helps, great, if it doesn’t, that’s still great, just leave what I’ve said but still know that I’ve got your back, I want to support you as best I can and my support might not be the best for you. I won’t be offended if what I say makes no sense to you or you just don’t like it or whatever. There are people on this site who can offer far greater support and advice etc than I can but that doesn’t mean I can’t try, I help some people some times. But I don’t think anybody can figure this stuff out by themselves so I absolutely recommend you get some support to help you work your way through it. 

  • @BlueRay

    I want to earn the minimum wage after university, then work up to £30k a year maybe by the time I'm 40. It's true that right now I'm struggling with multiple mental health problems on top of my autism, that are caused by my inept social skills, so this is probably what you are getting off me. 

    I'm really glad you've found support that is helpful for you. I think what you say is a more positive way to look at the situation, and I'll try to take that on board. I think that's why I made this post, for suggestions of new things that I might be able to do that's not what's currently in front of me. It's just trying to consider other options is so hard in this current climate! Everything requires previous experience, a degree in a relevant field, networking etc. Hopefully NAS will come up with some suggestions for me. 

  • The idea of a Masters just makes me incredibly nervous. You have to accept a course before you apply for funding, and it's in such short supply and highly competitive, what if I don't get it? I would have to back out of the course, and would be left with no income and no plans for the future. That terrifies me! Also, it's essentially a wasted year. I'd make more money working full time at the minimum wage, so I'd be better off doing that than a year of unnecessary education. Also, for my current living circumstances, moving to a brand new city on my own for just a year isn't really feasible. Three or four years, where I could settle and take my boyfriend with me, that would be ok. 

    The whole Masters thing just isn't secure and safe enough for me personally. At least the chance of PhD funding is much higher, the living allowance is far more generous, and the qualification is more worthwhile, so I'm more wiling to take the risk.

     I'll keep an eye out for those jobs next year when the graduate jobs roll around again, it might be the time of year that means that I can't really find anything. 

    I don't want a lot, just the minimum wage for now. But I'd like the possibility to maybe earn more in the future so I can do my hobbies. I've already had to give them up because of money, and I've coped fine, but I do enjoy them and want to do them one day again. That's just a dream of mine. But those Masters funding wouldn't even equate to minimum wage, and neither will work that's only part time. At the end of the day, I don't need the extra stress of waking up each day, worrying if I'll be able to make ends meet.

  • Thanks! I'll try filling in the online form.

  • Read back over what you have written, carefully, and without any judgement. The clues to you not finding what you are looking for are in your words. And if you look, you will see that you’re trying to fit yourself into the existing system. That’s not going to work. But that doesn’t mean you can’t achieve your goals but that you may need to approach them from a different angle. 

    To begin with, you have to be firm in your commitment as to what you want and to be able to do that, you have to know what you want. 

    You sound like you have some inner conflict going on, lots, in fact. You’re concerned about what the people in your life will think of you, you’re not sure how much money you want to earn - and when we’re not clear on that, we allow others to set our wages for us which is always below our value.

    You said you just want a job that you feel able to cope in and that doesn’t make your existence a living hell ~ this in itself can be a living hell, not living a fulfilling life. This sentence also suggests that you already consider your life an ‘existence’ and not a truly wonderful life that is full of possibilities. It also suggests that you believe that outside influences and other people have the power to make your life a living hell and they don’t, only you have that power. 

    You say you feel pathetic - consider what message you are giving yourself and others by allowing yourself to feel that way? And is it even true? Are you really pathetic just because you can’t do some things? That would make every single living person in the world pathetic. 

    You then go on to suggest that you want a job for the money but you’re not clear on how much. A good way to arrive at a figure is to work out a base line of what you need to bring in to meet your daily needs. Then do another working out by taking that figure and adding in some extras, such as a couple of holidays a year, or whatever is your thing. Then do another calculation by taking the base level to see what you could do without. For example, we don’t have to have a tv or some other of the things we take for granted. This will give you a bare minimum of what you would need to earn to get by. You can then decide what level of income you want to aim for. And by taking other things into consideration, it will show you where you can start. 

    I will wholeheartedly agree with you around the difficulties in getting a balance though. I’ve recently found my own way of approaching this but it’s still very much a work in progress and I’m coming to see that it’s going to involve me spending lots of time in nature, by myself, which means I have to let go of the idea of doing some things. 

    You won’t move forward with this until you get some support. You need to sit down with somebody and discuss all this. There’s so much going on but with the right help, it can all be untangled to help you get a clearer picture of what will work best for you. I’m getting support through autism plus who are not only proving to be excellent but it’s everything I ever wanted. Somebody who is on my side, who fully understands my difficulties (for want of a better word) and who supports me and my goals, rather than supporting me to fit into somebody else’s idea of how I should live my life.

    You can always contact the NAS helpline as a first step. You might find, after some exploration with another person, that you don’t want any of the things you’ve already considered. My career goals have changed drastically since getting my diagnosis and I’m still learning what I can or cannot do without weeks of recovery time. Autism doesn’t define me or limit me but it does guide me. No matter how hard I try or wish, there are simply things in this life that I can’t do, because of autism, so I’m finding the things that I can do instead and letting go of what I can’t do. 

    You're asking some great questions, which means you’re more than half way there because it’s all in the questions. Instead of saying I can’t do this, we can ask, what can I do instead to achieve my goals? 

  • Well, the Snowdon Cambridge Scholarship (from the link I posted) says to offer up to £30,000. That surely should be more than enough for both tuition and living expenses? It also specifically says this scholarship is available to Masters applicants of any nationality and in any subject, who self-identify as having a physical or sensory disability. I'm not sure if they would consider Asperger's syndrome in regards to sensory disability, but you could email them to ask. And they do say "self-identify", so the chances are that you may be eligible. I'm sure other universities also have good or even better scholarships. I know they can be quite a lot of work to search for and can be very competitive when applying. 

    I'm quite sure there will be research jobs out there that do take fresh graduates. It might be harder to search for, but there definitely are some. You may be able to ask your university career service to help. And it might be hard at the beginning, but once you have finished your first job, you will be amongst the people who have 1 - 3 years of industrial experience! 

    I personally don't care that much about money as long as I have enough to live on. Maybe it's a happier way to live by not caring about money? It's hard to find the right balance, as you can't give up what you care for (there are definitely things I do not want to give up even though it means being stressed), but also being more lenient on yourself might help.

  • Ahh, got ya, yes, I am talking about England, sorry. You can contact the NAS helpline though and speak to somebody there as a starting point. They get a lot of money to help people like us so they aren’t exactly doing you a favour by helping you so don’t be intimidated. I’ll get you the numbers and the opening times etc. But please don’t lose that passion. You tried, that’s amazing and now you know that you absolutely need some support to be able to succeed and excel in your chosen area. Don’t give up. You’re worth way more than that and the world needs your mind and your input and we need you to be happy and fulfilled. 

  • Are you from England? I'm from Scotland and there's not govt. loans for postgraduates. I'm not sure where I'd go for this specialist support. The previous thing you mentioned was in Sheffield. How do I speak to NAS? 

    It is depressing, but up until this point I've followed my 'heart', as you might say. I did a uni course that I felt passionate about, aspired to a career that I felt passionate about, but unfortunately my autism has made the thing I enjoy a misery. There's a lot of networking, incomplete training, etc in this field which I struggle with. This is why I must look at what I'm capable of, rather than what I want to do, even though it is hugely upsetting to me. I'm sick of being miserable and anxious all the time.

    I'm glad to hear some courses are accepting of autistic individuals. I think one issue with autism is that the projects tend to fall under psychology rather than neuroscience which means they're less likely to be funded (again, due to my financial situation, funding is an absolute must). But I'll have a look.

  • A lot of the Masters I was looking at had fees in the £15 - 20k range. Not sure if that's just because of my subject. Also how would I pay for rent, food etc.? I need something that has a living wage or stipend attached, and so far I've only seen PhD programmes with those. There are 1+3 PhD programmes that include a fully funded Masters, and I would consider that. But then of course I am committed to the PhD anyway. Sadly I am not mentally able to go abroad. 

    I've just had a quick look on Indeed. You're right, they're not asking for PhDs but quite a few are looking for Masters and others are requiring between 1 - 3 years of industrial experience. I don't see any that will take a fresh, inexperienced graduate. Of course this is a problem in every job field, not just science, you have to have experience to get experience! So I'm not sure what I would do about that.

    That's very interesting, thank you. It might be worth me doing some reading around research groups in the UK to see if there's anything suitable for my experience. I just want a job that I feel I'm able to cope in and that doesn't make my existence a living hell. I feel pathetic that most work makes me feel this way, and I know the people in my life will be disappointed if I do not use my intellect to forge a career. That and money are the only thing that stop me from just taking a simple job and being content. 

  • You can get a student loan for a masters degree and a PhD, no problem, I recently made inquiries, and the masters degree and phd in autism studies welcome very much autistic students and in fact the courses are designed around autistic students.  NAS also do a university masters course, I think it is, with opportunities for jobs etc which are particularly aimed at autistic individuals. It sounds like your  mindset is set to what you can’t do and you seem very certain of what you can’t do. You won’t figure this out by thinking about it, you need some specialist support to help you figure out what it is exactly that excites you and makes you feel good rather than what you can ‘manage’, which sounds very depressing, restrictive and uninspiring. Speak to NAS about what they offer. 

  • Hi Aralez, 

    I agree that funding for Masters is often harder to find, but it's not true that there is no financial support. It is possible to do a fully-funded Masters. For example, the Santander Cambridge Scholarship is specifically for Master students, and offers £10,000 to UK students. Actually, if you search on the Cambridge Trust website, and use the key words United Kingdom (I assume you're a UK student) and Masters, there are a few scholarships: https://www.cambridgetrust.org/scholarships/?country=United+Kingdom&degree=Masters&subject=&college=&submit=Search I'm sure other universities will have similar scholarships as well, you just need to search. It is also possible to consider going abroad to other countries where Master degrees are more affordable or if they have better scholarships.

    I think Research Assistant is a good alternative for a Masters. It often involves related research, but you don't have the pressure of  having to write a thesis and you also get paid for doing the job. It is common for people in the United States to spend a couple of years doing an RA before the PhD, to get the experience, learn skills, earn money, and decide whether or not they like research. It could add an advantage when applying for PhDs as you will have more experience. I don't think you need post-graduate experience to do a research assistant post. In my field, "research fellows", "research associates" are often post-PhD, while "research assistant" can be either post-BA degree or post-MA degree, but other fields could use other terms. I think more searching would be required if you would like to find something like this. I've just did a search on some job websites and found a few that only needs an undergraduate degree.

    If you're really interested in autism research, I think having Asperger's syndrome could be an advantage. Most jobs and graduate programmes are not allowed to discriminate you because of having a disability, so you would be eligible to apply. You may also provide new insight into the field that other people may not have noticed before. There's a large-scale research on late autism diagnosis in adult females lead by a PhD student that has Asperger's Syndrome. You can read about the news here https://www.anglia.ac.uk/science-and-technology/news/aspergers-student-leads-female-autism-study and here https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/women_late_diagnosis_autism (scroll down to the second interview). 

    I can definitely relate to all your concerns. I have the same troubles too. Just wanted to let you know that there is a big world out there with many possibilities, and whatever job you choose, whether it is going into research or being a cleaner, try to find something that makes you happy.