Bullying - With Experience

OrinocoFlo said:

Their parents didn't care much, and I remember some actually boasting that to get a day or two off school they just had to beat someone up.

Thank You for that part especially. It would be nice to know if any actual "teachers" or "Anti-Bullying" activists are reading this Thread... or even this Forum, at all...

Read below....I have since changed and now invite looks. Mostly nice comments, well dressed, very smart. Nice that someone makes the effort sir.

x()x

Dear DC how I would most enjoy walking with you down any street Side by side me wearing my Victorian clothes complete with waist coat collar less shirt  braces pocket watch and double Albert chain, flat cap and shooting stick ( seat) all leather old polished shoes and you in your amazing fedora hat. 

Now that would be a great sight to be seen, dare they even look at us in anything other than a smile grrrrr.

Some people have no taste,,,dear oh dear!

x()x

Very long, but thorough. Thank You Very much for this.

At my children’s school the bullies and trouble makers were often rewarded with gifts or vouchers in an attempt to calm them down by the teachers, also given priority to anything special. Basically rewarded for bad behaviour. X()x

Ok well it doesn’t take much to experience bullying as DC has said.

long before I had heard about autism I soon found out where we moved into was not the place for me, As a married man with two children it was soon apparent we were round pegs trying to fit into a square hole.

we did try to integrate but it was obvious we were not the same, thinking back it was deemed we were the “ POSH” ones! Now I was dragged up on a typical council estate back in the sixties, I do not consider myself “ posh” in any way, I am very proud to be working class, and yes worked hard all my life, had nothing but hand me downs and second hand toys. Often went hungry. 

My kids struggled to fit even at school. It seemed we were to be singled out from the start. 

I worked which was a rare thing amongst the neighbours, we were an ordinary family, we had pride in our garden, I had a very old car but polished it most weekends, I also fixed it and maintained it, money was tight.

The children outside were kicked out early morning and weren’t allowed in during the day, they often fought or vandalised everything, breaking trees not not planted, throwing rocks at each other. Using drains as toilets,spitting at each other.

When they got bored there attention turned to us, constantly kicking balls at our walls and door, and the odd window.

As they got older the packs got bigger and they got worse, our children were kept inside but had plenty of toys, good garden toys,swings sandpit slides etc, often we would let the other children in on the understanding they play nicely and behave. Mostly they did, what joy it was to see them play and not fight.

When they reached teenage years it got worse,constant damage to my car, door banging, kicking balls hard against our door, when confronted they would chirp up, “ you can’t touch us we are younger than ten and the police can’t touch us” the parents actually backed them and were often outside drinking cans of beer or smoking skunk weed or dope cannabis..

We called the police often but the officer was friends with them, he did nothing, often saying we were causing trouble..

Eventually one day we had six police officers here, nearly every neighbour was outside my door baying for my blood. I had spoken out and asked them to leave us in peace. 

Luckily one officer knew the other policeman was not doing his job and was giving them a bad name.

he arranged a visit for us to see his superior. After that everything went very quite, no more damage, quite nights, how very strange!

so after years of abuse for being normal, eggs thrown, rocks hurled, car damaged, insults and threats, kids walking in front of my car deliberately to stop my car. It all stopped.

So telling the authorities did nothing, the police did nothing, no one cared, there were to many of them and just us.

I was proud to be working class and still am. They were non working state benefit scroungers, new phones, latest clothes, new furniture, good holidays.. all the trimmings. Paid for out of my earnings by way of state benefit.

We looked normal, we behaved, we worked hard, kept things clean,often sneaking out at night to tidy the estate up...bags of rubbish,

picking up rocks to deter them and deprive them of ammunition.

You don’t need a reason to be picked on, just be not quite the same, we looked no different, we did not dress weird or act weird just normal.

It is quieter these days, new house “owners” not housing association tenants. New children young but some how different. 

It was horrific living here, kept me up most nights, always on edge, the law didn’t work,,,One work mate told me where I went wrong, I should have decked one of the parents day one to send home a Message!

so beat one of them up!

I could not descend to thier level. I am not an animal. I expected the law to protect me,ha ha no way.

bullying comes in all forms, 

It changed my view on society. When working class is considered posh it has failed completely. 

I do live in an association property, but I work and have my pride. They have no pride and expect to do nothing but be cared for.

the end of what life really is like.

my rant.. 

take care all of you. Be you no matter what it takes, 

This topic does beg "chat" (discussion)... yet I cannot guarantee to be here for much longer at this time...

To strangers, I have learnt to say little else but "Please", "Thank You", and "Excuse me.". The thing is as I said, that when certain persons are looking for something to pick upon or to hate, then the excuse absolutely does not matter. I cannot emphasize that enough - If they want to bully something/someone, then they focus upon that. That is my "Cynosure" aspect.

Also as I said, I walk, looking at the ground, saying nothing. I see the lower halves of people... their feet are often the first indicator of their direction of travel (!). I step aside, waaaaay in advance. I also listen and smell (!). I weave, dodge, side-step, turn away, cross-the-road... and the thing is that if they intend to pick upon myself, by gadfrey I jolly well make certain that they have to WORK to do so! I am not ashamed to even back up, stop, or run away... to avoid them. 

All of this I have learnt to do. All situations are different, but all "bullies" act the same. And I, as I said, may post more here about it as I began this Thread. Thank You (& all) for reading or Posting.

I'm surprised that you have these problems because on many of your contributions on this forum you seem very intelligent and articulate.

I, in contrast have been accused of being insensitive, clumsy, and as the saying goes, a bull in a China shop. Saying the wrong things, upsetting people, not showing respect to managers and people who consider themselves better.   I treat everyone equally.

Your memory is better than mine.

We did indeed have this conversation 7 months ago.

Thank You very much for this. (Although I have not yet if ever checked the Song-Link).

Robert124 said:

I am shocked at this kind of behaviour.  Do you unintentionally encourage it by the way you dress, walk or your general body language.?

...Great Goodness, please do not worry so much, Mr. Math-Photographer... Yourself and myself have actually had this conversation before (!), at this link:

community.autism.org.uk/.../national-police-autism-association

(By the way, they are still active, for anyone who may be curious! Here is their link(s):

http://www.npaa.org.uk/

www.npaa.org.uk/

...Please post there, not here, about NPAA, and reply to the starter/OP, anyone. )

...With regards to what I write (vent) here, I say -again - that ALL of that does NOT happen to me everyday, or everytime. Some days are better than others. I learn to be careful, and to not make eye-contact, and to avoid persons (including children) who seem to be looking for "something to do". Or something to take their anger/frustration/drunkenness/Tourette's ... out upon. It does not always work, I cannot always avoid it... but I have learnt much about "common society", and so that is that, really, it seems.
Yet as I said, I began this Thread for "venting", and so I may post more. It is not allowed to end in this reality for myself as I am. But I am no longer surprised at it. (Hence my UserName!)

I was brought up in an age where we were taught to ignore remarks by others.  'Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me'.  Trouble was, even though we did learn to ignore the remarks, it still did not mean they did not hurt. 

I think there is something that emanates from certain people - including those that are autistic - that says to bullies 'I am a target for you to bully'.  I certainly did not tell anyone when I was at school that I was autistic.  One reason being that when I was at school autism was only really known of by specialists researching obscure academic papers.  I also don't think even now that the topic of conversation immediately goes to telling someone that one is autistic, and it is disclosed on a 'need to know' basis (not that I am ashamed of being autistic).  I remember on one occasion being confronted in the changing rooms when I was at school with another lad from my year who stated he wanted a fight with me, saying he did not like 'ba***rds'.  I tried ignoring him with the result I got one hit in the face which broke my nose and put me in hospital for two days. 

Bullies know how to look for a target and that applies throughout all ages.  I have never committed any 'crime' which has landed me in court, yet this has not prevented me from being escorted from a branch of a well-known shop by two burly security men saying they 'did not want my sort there', and not having known what I had done or what they thought I had done I was at a loss to understand the reasoning.  I have been followed home by police because I was 'acting suspiciously' when I was in a shopping area because I was walking up a street and then 'suddenly' changed direction (when walking) and went home instead of continuing.  I have been subject to the most disgusting behaviour at work by managers for no reason at all except I am autistic, 'adjustments' were made and then it was decided that these 'adjustments' meant that I was not 'doing a proper job'.   I have been told by a senior manager that I am suffering from 'dementia', and that my behaviour is inappropriate (I was rocking in my chair) and I was 'staring'. There are times when it seems we are treated in a way which is guaranteed to induce stress and then because we exhibit the symptoms of stress (frustration, anger, withdrawal, meltdowns, etc) we are punished for acting naturally.

Being subjected to bullying over the years means that I can detect a bully at fifty paces.  In the same way that a bully can home in on their target, I can with near certainty detect who a bully is.  Unfortunately, without the proof no one else believes any report, so the only action is avoidance of the person.  So this has the result others wonder why there are certain people (often those in authority) with whom I will not engage in communication.  I believe many people in authority only get their positions due to bullying behaviour (which is seen as some sort of strength).  (Note that I have said 'many' and not 'all' since there are some who gain their positions whilst maintaining legitimate behaviour).

The result of all this over the years is to not trust authority, and become timid and submissive.  Which in turn leads to more bullying and obnoxious behaviour from others.  I have said before in these forums that I prefer to be left alone to do the things I know I can do, to enjoy my own company and be lost in my own thoughts.  And that way I will also not be subject to suffering from the actions of bullies.

I will end this with a song by Chumbawamba about the Jazz singer George Melly and how he dealt with muggers in Manchester:

Ratatatay

Disambiguating Cynosure said:

While doing nothing but standing or walking, I have "double-takes", finger-pointing, throwing things, insults, "egging", yelling, lies, people bunching up to get in my way (e.g. to "stare at the weirdo"). I repeat that this is some children and adults as well.

When I must do a regular shop, the item may be removed from sale, and some Shop Assistants are always tailing me, and some Secu

I am shocked at this kind of behaviour.  Do you unintentionally encourage it by the way you dress, walk or your general body language.?

Thank You for the Posts, Possibly Autistic. This is in short...

By some intervention of things Greater than us (!), I must admit that, at the moment, the long-term perpetrators who victimised me have "moved away" - both of them - and so that is only JUST NOW not as bad as they were...

However, given what I write, and your answer, this STILL happens to me from strangers: The thing is, they are almost always Children. The chasing/throwing stuff occurs. Woe betide me, should they find out where I "live", for then they know where to come in order to "have some fun"...

At the time of being victimised, I had no formal diagnosis. Now I do. And the new children should be aware of it. But END OF TERM HOLIDAYS are always a time which I dread, and this shall be their first time. Bored Children and Adults, are when the absolute worst occurs... I avoid them, and wait and see what this Year brings.

This year shall be my first time declaring the Autism against "bored Children" who know where I "live". They have already chased me and heckled me and do the "waiting outside" things. August and Sunny Days are not good times for myself.

With regards to the Police, I think that they would side with the parents: "Oh, they are just playing!" "Kids will be kids!" "No real harm done!"... and as to defecation / dead animals or what other deviltry may occur... I cannot PROVE who did it, and if I did... "Oh they are just children! They didn't mean it!" over and over and over.

I have learnt by now how to lessen such things. When strangers are nearby (including children, of course), I wait for them to leave, or go away and come back after an hour or two. (Or late at night.)

...I said that was "in short", but this was a long-ish Post anyway, sorry.

Disambiguating Cynosure

Have you ever reported any of this to the Police ? 

The defecating / dead animals if found to be caused by a human and targeted at you due to your perceived difference /disability would constitute a Hate Crime under the law. 

I was badly bullied & ostracised in early high school and have been picked on and bullied in jobs since. It's had an impact on my MH; depression, anxiety, bulimia, and I also experience what I believe may be 'emotional flashbacks' under specific conditions.

Some of the teachers at my school witnessed me being bullied but ignored it. One of them even said a couple of years later that they thought I'd 'grown up a lot', so, hey, I guess that they thought the bullying was my fault. 

I'm aware that bullying is an issue I'll probably be confronted with throughout my life so more recently I have started to study it and gain a clearer understanding of the reasons behind it (bullying is usually a demonstration of power and means to control a group, not the target). It's also worth learning about group dynamic theory, formal & informal hierarchies & power structures within groups. 

I recognise that as I don't 'do' small talk and tend not to socialise with work colleagues - too exhausting in addition to the job - this puts me at higher risk of being bullied. If an individual remains relatively unknown to others then it's easier for people to project (usually unfavourably) onto them.

I guess my current thinking is to find work & social environments that are supportive, inclusive and have a low tolerance for these forms of abuse. Another option is to find a mix of work where social interaction with others is limited or can be done in a controlled manner (self-employed specialist who delivers training/ advice, a product or works online etc..). I also suggest having a few stock phrases ready for when someone says something aggressive as this initial response may deter a potential long-term bully if they are 'testing' to locate potential targets. 

Teach yourself about how best to respond to passive aggressive comments too as this can be more difficult to respond to in the moment. 

For parents trying to support kids who are being bullied, approach the school early on after making yourself familiar with their bullying policy and evidence base that links bullying to the long-term impact on MH. There are also safeguarding implications to consider as bullies may be the victim of abuse at home (schools should take this very seriously as it would be a major failing in their Duty of Care if they overlooked it). Read up on the legal requirements that schools have to comply with, and use this info when you speak to the school. Practise what and how you are going to say in advance. 

If the bullying involves sexual intimidation and/ or physical violence I'd approach the police first. 

Hope these suggestions are of help.

Saz

Sorry to hear the level of harassment you are having to put up with. Some of those things must be very distressing for you. I sometimes have trouble from groups of kids. Usually around age 12, large groups that try to get in my way, shout rude things or throw stuff etc. I once had an incident where a boy walked up to me and screamed in my face for no reason. I found that particularly terrifying because i had no idea it was about to happen and i can't bear loud noises. I was shaking all over for hours after that.

The effect of bullying, both at school and at work, continues long after the actual bullying has stopped.  The memory lives on and the effect on my mental health goes on and on.

Greetings. I know that this Thread has dropped away of late. Great Thanks to all who posted - "venting" is still invited, and we may notice that there is not much "interaction", maybe...

I myself have not finished with this Thread, and perhaps never shall. But I needed a reminder of the kind of Frustration which started it, and I gained that today, and so I post again.

Being Bullied By Children and Adults... while as a child and now still as an adult. (Please see my UserName again, for it is a life-long matter.)

While doing nothing but standing or walking, I have "double-takes", finger-pointing, throwing things, insults, "egging", yelling, lies, people bunching up to get in my way (e.g. to "stare at the weirdo"). I repeat that this is some children and adults as well.

When I must do a regular shop, the item may be removed from sale, and some Shop Assistants are always tailing me, and some Security Guards stand there, grinning.

When I must exit where I "live", some are waiting outside, to pursue me and to heckle me. They may begin to consider it thier main preoccupation, and play "Knock-a-door-run", or defacate outside, or leave litter including dead animals.

Changing behaviour and/ appearence does nothing. If a "Bully" (child and adult, I say again) wants to pick upon anyone, then the reason does not and never ever matters. "They are just weird!" "They are stupid!" "I nevver did nuthin'! They just got in my way!"

...If anyone wants to know how the "mind of a 'bully' works", then I am a good person to ask.

(I suppose that this Thread really is over, now... but not for myself while I am stuck here as I am.)

This is my latest Post to this Thread... but it might not be a "good" one. Apologies in advance...

This is mostly about School Bullying, again.Sometimes the Teachers thought that the problem would be solved if I was actually *put with bullies*...! They say that they "keep a close eye upon things", but of course have they to "blink" or turn away at some point. I wonder if schools are fitted with cameras nowadays...? When something happens really quickly, the Bully often feigned innocence: "She did it to 'erself, I din' do nuthin', nevver!!" sort of thing...

A modern gripe I have is with "Anti-bully awareness weeks". I can fully imagine the Bullies walking around, grinning, that the Teacher has given them the Poster/Banner/Photo-Opportunity, with utter ignorance of that child actually enjoying a campaign seeming to celebrate what they enjoy doing the most.