Accommodating NTs

Hello All:

I hope those with partners or spouses in this forum can offer some suggestions. I'm the long time NT spouse of an ASD hubby, mother to a teen daughter on the spectrum as well as a teen daughter with profound, complex developmental & medical needs. I was a special needs teacher specializing in dual diagnosis teens & adults for well over 20 years, supporting the family as hubby has always been under-self-employed, until ill health took me out & isolated me at home. Daughter is higher functioning than hubby. On another thread, I posted something like this, below & I wonder if there are those on the spectrum here &/or their NT partners who could offer suggestions?

"I'm an NT spouse & mother - the only NT in the house & this explanation of preferring no behaviour change or to "fit in" is often given to me by my ASD spouse & young adult daughter. It's become a very old & destructive perspective in the household, requiring me to live entirely in an ASD world with zero accommodation or attempts at perspective change to benefit my needs as an NT person. I understand the unique gifts my spouse & daughter have accrued & developed in light of their autism, but not the 100% refusal to adapt anything for another's (& ultimately their own) benefit. I must constantly adapt & change to accommodate their needs & those of others. If you were asked to change & adapt for the benefit of another, would you attempt to do so? What would convince you to attempt such changes; what words from an NT would convince you to change your perspective &/or behaviours in select situations? In our home, the ASD diagnosis is not used by those diagnosed as a tool to help themselves, rather as a weapon & I'd like to find ways to encourage voluntary change. Suggestions?" Any help out there? Thanks.

Parents
  • Hi TenaciousT (great handle!) Slight smile

    I'm a 58-year-old male who was only diagnosed in 2015.  All of my life, though, I knew there was something 'different' with me as I always struggled with things that others seemed to take for granted: friendships, relationships, routine changes... and cohabitation arrangements of any kind.  Apart from when I was living at home, and during six months earlier this year when I was giving full-time nursing care to my mother in her home, I've only cohabited twice in my adult life.  The first occasion was when I was married.  I loved my ex-wife very much.  But I couldn't make it work - or it wouldn't work, whichever.  A large part of the reason, I now realise looking back, is that it threw me out of my natural psychological space.  I was used to having a certain order to things.  And that order all broke down, and I couldn't cope with it.  Silly things, maybe... but I would do all of the cleaning, and it had to be done all at once on a Friday evening to leave the weekend free (a routine I still keep to now).  I could only settle once it was done.  Because I did it all, I was conscious more of keeping the place clean and neat.  I would always, for instance, wipe my feet when I came in and take my shoes off before stepping over the carpet.  My ex-wife never would - even if her shoes were muddy and wet.  She almost did it deliberately, I think, in the end.  She'd just say 'Let it dry and clean it up then', which I couldn't do.  I couldn't leave it.  I tried reasoning by saying 'It wouldn't need doing at all if you just took your shoes off like I do.'  But no.  There were lots of other little niggles like this.  I did try very hard to compromise, I truly did.  But in the end, the sum total of lots of little things drove me to distraction.  I also am a person who needs his own space a lot, away from anyone.  My ex-wife respected this, to a degree - but then would often barge into the room I used on the pretext of getting something.  At the end of a couple of years together, I began to drink to cope with the anxieties all of this threw up.  By 4 years, it was all coming to pieces.  We finally divorced after 5 years.  My own perceived and admitted failure to work at it was a source of great grief for me for a long time afterwards.  Again, I say - I really did work at compromising.  The same in my second cohabitation relationship - except here, things were different in that my ex-partner insisted that I adapt to her needs much more.  She refused to do any chores at all - including shopping or laundry - because she found them "too exhausting".  She had BPD, but I actually believe CFS may have been at the root of things.  She refused to go out.  I could only talk to her when she wanted to talk.  Physical relations could only be when she wanted them, and in her preferred way - and they had to be over very quickly.  You could say, perhaps, that this was giving me a taste of my own medicine!  But again, with her, I compromised... until all I was doing was compromising.  Once again, I hit the bottle to cope.  Once again, it all blew up.

    I now live alone out of choice.  In some ways, I think I just don't want to give anyone else the burden of having to put up with me - so at least I have that insight.  I know how hard it can be.  Like living with someone with a serious illness or physical disability, adaptations need to be made - and they can be taxing in even the most loving relationship.

    Sorry... I'm not able to really offer any solutions.  Just my own perspective on it, from the ND side.  It's difficult, and I don't envy anyone who has to deal with it.  I hope there isn't genuine unkindness or stubbornness behind things in your situation, though you know it better than I do.  I think I know what you mean about how it seems to be being used as a weapon.  But that then means that you're an enemy in the camp.  Is that how you feel about it?

    I hope others can offer some broader insights to help you.

    Best wishes,

    Tom

  • Former Member - I really appreciate your candid description of how it has been to be in a relationship from your perspective. Particularly that you loved your partner, it simply didn't work anyway & you have regrets. It definitely helps to think that my hubby may experience regrets he's unable to express. Clearly you understand how i feel about being the one having to make the compromises but unlike me, you got out. Regrets or no, it sounds like you made the best decision. Everyone deserves their own soul & it sounds like you saved yours. Thanks for sharing that.

    I smiled reading about some of the niggling issues you mention. Unlike the majority of folks i know on the spectrum, it's my spouse & daughter whose difficulties w/executive function mean chaos reigns in our environment! I'm the one setting up the shoe rack for muddy shoes whilst they're tramping thru the house never noticing or caring. I find these aspects unusual & really irritating. Frankly, after 25 years of marriage I'm tired of removing dirty socks from the stove top & explaining personal hygiene over & over. I thoroughly understand how that kind of irritation can really add up. I'm fortunate in that I've been able to kind of pare down some expectations - although reading your post & pondering makes me understand that I haven't really pared down enough. You're right that the environmental/cleanliness things are a big part of daily frustrations that leave me unable to better cope with bigger issues. So you've given me a step to take I didn't have before; perhaps there's an individual in these forums whose executive function issues lead to a chaotic environment. Perhaps hearing about that perspective will help me find ways to help hubby, daughter & me all meet an agreed upon standard for clean & tidy & stick to it. I've tried b4 with what I know as a teacher - lists, signs, assigned chores, visual cues, etc...but none have ever worked. Your words encourage me to find out why they didn't work & to recognize how much of an impact these environmental things are having on everything else. Thank you Tom! 

    As for stubbornness or cruelty - Hubby's personality is very gentle, but I think the autism affects him to such a degree that he operates instinctively on all levels. He's unable to evaluate behaviour or words either b4 or after so there's never a bad intention. I suspect that regardless of ASD, he's just a stubborn fellow like many people are, but there's an inability to find or judge any flexibility because of the ASD. Again, not intentional, just extremely unaware. Daughter on the other hand, is higher functioning & despite regrets later, is often a right bully within the family. I love her profoundly, but am grateful that she's away at uni, home only for holidays, living on her own & liking it.

    Thank you VERY MUCH Tom. 

Reply
  • Former Member - I really appreciate your candid description of how it has been to be in a relationship from your perspective. Particularly that you loved your partner, it simply didn't work anyway & you have regrets. It definitely helps to think that my hubby may experience regrets he's unable to express. Clearly you understand how i feel about being the one having to make the compromises but unlike me, you got out. Regrets or no, it sounds like you made the best decision. Everyone deserves their own soul & it sounds like you saved yours. Thanks for sharing that.

    I smiled reading about some of the niggling issues you mention. Unlike the majority of folks i know on the spectrum, it's my spouse & daughter whose difficulties w/executive function mean chaos reigns in our environment! I'm the one setting up the shoe rack for muddy shoes whilst they're tramping thru the house never noticing or caring. I find these aspects unusual & really irritating. Frankly, after 25 years of marriage I'm tired of removing dirty socks from the stove top & explaining personal hygiene over & over. I thoroughly understand how that kind of irritation can really add up. I'm fortunate in that I've been able to kind of pare down some expectations - although reading your post & pondering makes me understand that I haven't really pared down enough. You're right that the environmental/cleanliness things are a big part of daily frustrations that leave me unable to better cope with bigger issues. So you've given me a step to take I didn't have before; perhaps there's an individual in these forums whose executive function issues lead to a chaotic environment. Perhaps hearing about that perspective will help me find ways to help hubby, daughter & me all meet an agreed upon standard for clean & tidy & stick to it. I've tried b4 with what I know as a teacher - lists, signs, assigned chores, visual cues, etc...but none have ever worked. Your words encourage me to find out why they didn't work & to recognize how much of an impact these environmental things are having on everything else. Thank you Tom! 

    As for stubbornness or cruelty - Hubby's personality is very gentle, but I think the autism affects him to such a degree that he operates instinctively on all levels. He's unable to evaluate behaviour or words either b4 or after so there's never a bad intention. I suspect that regardless of ASD, he's just a stubborn fellow like many people are, but there's an inability to find or judge any flexibility because of the ASD. Again, not intentional, just extremely unaware. Daughter on the other hand, is higher functioning & despite regrets later, is often a right bully within the family. I love her profoundly, but am grateful that she's away at uni, home only for holidays, living on her own & liking it.

    Thank you VERY MUCH Tom. 

Children
  • Former Member

    The unconditional love thing paired with poor behaviour is frankly, a given in a lot of family relationships & I'd say mums usually get that. I know it's a big part of my daughter's behaviour at home. She's quiet, responsible, mannerly & self-controlled everywhere else: frequently a bully at home. But she's been this way since she was tiny & with us, nighttime usually means apologies & often agony as she questions why she's "This way". She can be vulnerable, rude, outrageous, kind, creative, sad....anything she needs to be with me & it's always 100% safe to be so. I definitely don't like the bullying & have done everything I can think of to contain it - she's not a "bully" but a person dealing w/internal struggles I can't judge or gauge. I'd lay odds your mum knew from the get go that however things made her feel at the moment you spoke the way you did because it was safe to do so. Didn't need a diagnosis to know that either - it happens w/NT kids too. Your mum knew it was a kind of back-handed compliment.

    As for verbal abuse, that's what I'm the one trying to avoid. In 25 yrs I've reduced us to that a handful of times, mostly in the earliest years & I hate it & myself that I've ever communicated that way. Like you, I felt pushed to the absolute limit & blew. The sad bit is that it worked, temporarily at least, each time. I've tried seemingly endless, thought out, researched, kindly, side ways, written - everything I could think of, devise or find to communicate with hubby & elicit response since then with zero results. I've run out of ideas & am no further ahead. But desperately needing his help now - urgently needing it - I'm afraid i will end up turning to speaking as i once did as a totally uncomprehending newlywed dying to get a response of any kind.

    Having read the response on this thread that somehow disappeared & that of others in the forums, I think I've figured out something for sure. It's a long story how we ended up married & why I stayed, but this I know: My spouse is nowhere near as high functioning as the members of these forums on the spectrum. Not even close. Hubby's 2nd dx included the notation that he was developmentally between 9-10 years of age but never explained it. I've thought that was simply a skewed score due to the ASD. Reading here tells me there was likely no skew. He's a relatively well-known & well-respected artist, although as is traditional, not financially rewarded. There he's brilliant - everything else he's very childlike. He could not express anything remotely like what I'm reading on these pages or do the things others reveal they do - like living alone, paying bills, working, caring for elderly parents, planning, caring for children, etc...Hubby is quite a bit closer to savant than what folks call Aspergers. 

    Which helps me understand better how to elicit those things he can offer & how. I've always gone to great lengths to defer to him as a man, a father & an adult. But maybe some of that trapped hurt look in his eyes & some of my frustration would end if i just stop that & instead treat him as i would a 9 or 10 year old boy. My profoundly developmentally delayed daughter is cognitively about 4 & I set up her life so she can succeed at that level & so she does. If I gave her the structure I would accord her age -17 - she'd fail, be miserable & because she doesn't have ASD, be able to tell me so. Hubby can't tell me but if I give him the same developmental age-appropriate parameters maybe it could work for us all. I've been so careful about his dignity, but in doing so, maybe made it impossible for him to succeed. I can but try.

    Thank you Martian Tom, Lonewarrior & others for being so forthright & responsive. You've given me several insights I'd have missed completely if you'd remained silent. I greatly appreciate your help. :-)

  • I'm glad if my words have offered you some insights. 

    I also regret that, although my mother was the centre of my world - the only person who truly understood me, and the only one I could go to for support and love when the rest of the world was rejecting me - I could be an insufferable bully with her when I was growing up.  Even in adult life.  She was the only person I used to really argue with - often reducing her to tears.  I poured all of this out to a therapist I saw a few years ago (the one who first identified evidence of ASC in me), and she said it was probably because our relationship was based on unconditional love.  I argued and fought with her because I knew I could, and it wouldn't affect the love she had for me - and vice-versa.  Even when I was nursing her 24/7 during her final illness, we would have words - and it always left me feeling horrible afterwards.  Why do I continue to hurt her in this way?  But it was a difficult dynamic.  I was sharing a confined space with her, sleeping on a camp bed, and had to be vigilant with her throughout the day - monitoring her medication, her diet, her moods.  I was constantly on edge.  And I was watching her progressively deteriorate.  I've written a book about that time, which is as much a confessional as it is a testament to such a unique loving relationship - and such a remarkable person, which is what she was.  I have huge regrets about the way I treated her sometimes - only moderately assuaged by the fact that I gave her all I could to make her final days as comfortable as possible. 

    These relationships are a minefield.  All human relationships are, really.  My last partner - the one with BPD - understood my condition.  But only up to a point.  The eighteen months we were together were a very fraught time.  We had some ferocious rows, and I was verbally abusive.  I hugely regret this, too - but I was at my wit's end.  When it all fell apart, she refused to accept any explanation of my behaviour that was based around its being in response to her behaviour.  But, in large part, it was.  I simply could not cope with this person taking control of my life, which she did.  In hindsight, and with things I've found out since, I realise she was narcissistic.  She was used to having her own way, and would go to any lengths to maintain that way.

    But then... I'm like that, too.  Just for a different reason.