Livid with teacher

If the OP's daughter had always been asking to use the toilet in the past, there may have been some justification for what the teacher did, but, in this case, what happened was unjustifiable and cruel. Teachers are adults and they are hired to be able to make their own judgement calls.  

Hi NAS36772,

I really like it when the older kids ‘abuse their right’ to use the toilet (perhaps not the crack smoking bit though) or when they stretch the uniform rules etc.  As I think, in such a controlled and authoritarian environment as high school, it is good for kids to exercise their rebelliousness, to break these (in this case) actually quite harmless ‘rules.’ I think it is very good for their souls to disobey teachers in this way. Perhaps the reason they break the ‘toilet rules’ so often is because these are the only rules they are able to safely break in this environment? Why take this from them? Why not let them pretend to need the loo, and you pretend you believe them; why not give them this win in this small way, every day?

People are not machines, no?   

Hi Endymion,

Yes; in England Year 6 pupils are usually aged 10.

The original post-er said her child was in year 6. What age is a year 6 pupil?

In Scotland primary one's are aged 4-5 so primary 6 pupils are about 10 years old. I realise that the English schools system is different, that's why I asked the question. 

It’s certainly very challenging. I get my ASD students... I have several who see me at the start of day and break times... it can be down to limited life experience and lack of training and not malicious intent from some

I wonder if the shortage may be due to the possibility that the 'barrel' (as opposed to the apples) is spoiled? 

The school system (barrel) in my personal opinion, seems rotten; for both teachers and pupils alike? 

Thank you. Like you I am human and working long hours can sometimes scupper judgement but it is nit meant with evil intent, 

we are currently short of 30,000 teachers in the U.K... we might have just lost another one

I personally really respect your posts NAS36772, thank you.

However, I cannot yet find common ground on this issue with you. Other than perhaps the fact that, ‘none of us are perfect,’ which I will happily agree on wholeheartedly.

However, staff being bullied by the Head etc. (which definitely does go on rampantly I know) is still not reason enough to then bully others, particularly small children in our care, in return.

In this way our bullied and disempowered children grow up, in turn, to grasp passionately at the opportunity to have power over others (such as choosing teaching as a profession in some (not all!) cases perhaps?) and become ‘bullying Headmasters’ themselves in return, yes?

I think many teachers would benefit from frequently asking themselves the age old ethical questions: how they would feel if they were treated in this same way by another human being? And would they treat another adult in this same way?’ and ‘would they feel confidant to openly explain their actions (in this instance) to a court of their peers?’

And if any of those ethical questions makes a person wriggle uncomfortably (and start pulling at their shirt collar,) then the answer is likely that they should not be treating children this way, no?

My experience still is that older children do sometimes use and abuse their rights to use the toilet. As someone pointed out though, the age group we are talking about here hardly qualifies for crack-smoking delinquency. 

Teaching can be a tough, tough job and I still think it might be worth giving this one the benefit of the doubt, though it does sound as though a line was crossed in this case. The teacher may be young and may have been bullied in turn by the head teacher or a mentor for not maintaining class discipline adequately. 

I don’t think that telling kids when they can and can’t use the toilet is the act of ‘establishing boundaries.’ I believe it is the act of teachers exercising their ‘absolute power’ to enforce a dictatorship.

The definition of a ‘Dictator’ is someone who wields their power in an oppressive manner. Which I think is a very accurate description of this teacher’s attitude and actions towards this little (and vulnerable) girl.

Year 6 is certainly not the same as year 9 or 10...

I know that Scottish and English schools are different but isn't a year six pupil just ten or eleven years old? Hardly the crack-smoking delinquent!

If this was the child's early experiences of periods she could not be expected to adequately prepare for it at such a young age. The 45-minute lesson would only apply in a high-school but if this child was so young, her lesson would have been at least two and a half hours long. 

I do agree that the older children get, the more difficult it is for teachers to maintain discipline in some classes but I feel strongly that younger children need much more compassion than discipline.   

It just seems to accentuate the fact that autistic pupils really shouldn't be in these large classes where authority etc has to be maintained by the teacher in this manner. I still feel sad, angry and traumatised by my school experience.

Until I was 16 I was always in large classes with up to 28 pupils. Teachers felt they had to establish their authority - and more often than not I experienced that an example was set on me and I was ridiculed in front of the whole class. 

It is just horrible. You are under constant fear from attack from your classmates (don't do anything wrong or they will ridicule, constantly wondering if their reactions mean you did something wrong), you are straining to understand instructions and do things right (hopelessly untidy and clumsy, never have the right things with you, not knowing what you are supposed to be doing) and then when you do something wrong the teacher admonishes you in front of everyone for breaking an obvious rule. 

My life was made a misery and I mean no disrespect to people who have lived through atrocities, but I experienced school as if it were a concentration camp. Constantly scrutinising what I should be doing, whilst constantly feeling sick, with a hyperactive bladder and unsettled intestines -in a cloud of constant invisible panic. 

And the horrible thing is no-one seemed to notice or care. The only thing that was said was: "x is rather withdrawn". Or "she is very distracted and pays no attention". There was no reprieve from the moment I entered the gates until I got home. And from the moment I woke up I felt sick with nerves which I started feeling again before I went to bed, and really bad on Sunday evenings.

I doubt I am the only person with autism who felt that terrorised at school. And I fear that it is very invisible to the outside world just how bad it can be to the person experiencing it.

I am a teacher too and I do think the breaks should be used for that. Each lesson is only 45 minutes anyway. Recently the school was in lock down because someone had reported a smell of crack in one of the toilets and some definitely occasionally use them for a smoke...

Kids do sometimes abuse the toilet thing, easy enough to suss if they come back laden with chocolates and sandwiches. Once a girl did say she was coming on in the class, once again this was just after an ample break....I remember periods usually do start early. The others were being cheeky, assuming I did not know know enough of their language to understand. So I did not let her go on that occasion. That one was eventually expelled......

If a child genuinely seems unwell I let them go. And to have a wee too. But if it always seems to happen before I set them a listening comprehension test I ask them to remain. 

So I don't agree with lynch mobbing the teacher either, she may simply have been trying to establish boundaries. With teens there is always a tightrope between being strict enough and understanding enough and as someone said, the beleaguered teacher certainly is just human.

This post makes me want to cry. I feel so sorry for your daughter and hope it won't have lasting consequences. These kind of teachers can really ruin life quality for youngsters with ASD!!  I also feel these kind of teachers pick on the most vulnerable who won't answer back.

I had severe anxiety due to all this "you can't pee during class hours - you must go in the break". I now realise it was due to anxiety I needed to pee so often anyway. This anxiety ruined seven years of my life.

But because of a period... my goodness, this really is abuse. Did the teacher realise your daughter is autistic? My gosh.... I really am horrified this kind of stuff is still going on 30 years later... and anyway autistic kids should be allowed to leave to go to the loo even if they don't need the loo - just in order to prevent overload.

I don’t think anybody should be denied the right to perform a natural bodily function at any time. What the hell do some people think they are going to achieve by preventing somebody from  meeting their natural bodily urges!!!! This is why I don’t want any of my grandchildren in school. I didn’t want my son to go to school but he wanted to and he enjoyed it so I didn’t stop him. Not allowing a child to go to the toilet when they need to is unacceptable and I would take my child out of that teachers class immediately because I would not want my child being taught by a person who thinks they have got the authority to determine when somebody does or doesn’t use the bathroom. In fact, I would ask for her immediate dismissal ~ I know that’s hardly likely to happen but I would demand it, just so they know how ludicrous and unacceptable this kind of behaviour is. I would probably make up some other ludicrous demand as well just to match the stupidity of this teacher. 

Teachers: the ‘imparters of knowledge.’

Compassion and wisdom optional.   

Hi NAS36492,

I am outraged. This is abuse.

I would go straight to the complaints procedure that your school has in place and proceed with a formal complaint. I wouldn’t even bother to chat about it or discuss it first with the teacher or Head (unless the schools complaints procedure requires you to do so.) 

What is there to discuss? There is zero excuse for this. None.

And I wouldn’t stop until your daughter has received a formal written apology and acknowledgement of neglect from the school, and the school has changed their policy on allowing children to use the toilet.

Outraged!

Hi I just wanted to send my love and support to you and your daughter. In many cases it appears to be junior schools that believe they are untouchable. Only meet with Head, preferably with a family or friend present to take notes , back it up with written confirmation of your meeting. Junior schools do not like paper trails. My son apparently misunderstood every unpleasant situation he was ever put in by his school.

Footnote... as a teacher we have a legal duty of care of those students in a lesson. If something happens to the student when they go to the toilet I am legally libel. Also as a teacher handling a class of 25-30 kids and working 7 days a week diesn’t always mean  that I make the right judgements... psst.. teachers are human...nor would they do the job if they didn’t have humanity..but they can be fallible