Is AS caused by teaching children to read at too young an age?

Getting back to first principles, then do you think that the upbringing of a child throughout the first three years of their life can permanently shape their personality and outlook for the rest of their life?

People definitely are shaped by the society and community that they live in although I'm not quite sure at what age the shaping occurs at. For example, the tea that most British people drink is black tea with milk because it's the tea they encounter other British people drinking. There are also certain gender stereotypes and norms entrenched into the culture of society.   

Hi Arran,

Just to clarify; we can't yet be certain of a genetic cause for all types of autism, as there are instances where injury has caused autistic traits to appear. I do not believe that it would be helpful to differentiate between those who's traits have a genetic cause and those with an environmental cause.

I hope that by suggesting a '...genetic cause for high functioning autism...' that you are taking into account the potential for epigenetics to have an impact. Epigenetics is a fascinating area, it may prove useful to investigate this in relation to ASCs.

On the other aspects, I agree with your opinion that non life-threatening conditions are seen as less important. Rightly or wrongly, I feel that this is the case for many conditions. I'm afraid that I do not have suitable advice regarding NHS services in this regard.

There are times when I wonder whether the NAS knows much about high-functioning AS considering that their original purpose was for people with traditional Kanner autism or at the more extreme end of the spectrum, and this is still the case as it's what brings in the public money.

I know for sure that a genetic cause of high-functioning AS - and indeed ALL forms of ASD - just like the colour of one's eyes suits the NHS just fine because it is an institution that is only interested in conditions if they are life threatening. Anything that is not life threatening is just seen as a whim.

While I think that the original point is probably without merit (however there is potential for an environmental cause for ASC behaviours if, for example, a child were prevented from any form of socialisation in early life, e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23352169

), I do think that there has been an interesting article posted regarding heritability.

Here is another:

https://molecularautism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/2040-2392-5-5

However, after reading a few papers, I have found that the genes selected as indicating autism are different between each paper. It is also worth bearing in mind, as has been previously stated, most current studies on ASC have been onthose with severe austim (as this is the easiest to diagnose):

http://www.ajog.org/article/S0002-9378(14)01167-3/abstract

As such there may not be an easily identifiable genetic ‘cause’. Dominant and recessive as definitions are misleading, as in many cases the ‘recessive’ gene is still expressed along-side the ‘dominant’.

Regarding an environmental cause, I have seen no evidence that this is the case. My experiencec is that everyone is different; some children will learn reading and writing very quickly, and be willing to do so in their free-time, some will not. In my case, despite the best efforts of my parents, I wasn’t able to read until I was 6.

Additionally, surely a more likely ‘cause’ for an increase in ASC cases is an adjustment of diagnsotic criteria, availability of diagnosis (i.e. the variety, and even professional awareness, of diagnoses simply wasn’t available until recently), public awareness of the condition (i.e. liklihood of diagnosis).

Until the diagnostic criteria is singly defined and boundries set for condition types, I feel that simply looking at the ‘number’ (or factor of population) diagnosed with this condition will be misleading.

Additionally, of the genes involved, I would be extremely surprised if there was a modern human on Earth that wasn’t in posession of all of the route 66 genes (or those in the previously posted example) as they appear largely vital to development. To simplify; the studies are unlikely to find ‘missing’ genes, but instead ‘under or over-expressed’ ones. Ergo racial 'immunity' is extremely unlikely.

[quote user="NAS13026"]An example of DNA based research specifically targeting those with Aspergers, rather than classic autism...

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/.../quote]

That looks like an interesting article as it focuses on high-functioning AS rather than traditional Kanner autism.

"While most neuroimaging and behavioral studies of ASC focus on the higher-functioning end of the autism spectrum (high-functioning autism and/or Asperger syndrome (AS)), the large-scale genetic studies have primarily investigated the lower-functioning end, focusing on classic autism. In this study, we address this important gap in literature, by reporting two genetic association studies."

I have informed my local AS support group about it. They are quite open minded to the causes of AS. There are still many questions to answer if AS is genetic. Is it hereditary? Is it caused by a recessive gene that only occasionally surfaces? Is it a mutation?

Also, the NAS is adamant and insistent that ASD, including high-functioning AS, affects people equally of all races although I and some other people from the high-functioning AS community have reservations about this.

community.autism.org.uk/.../asd-people-foreign-backgrounds

If high-functioning AS is genetic then it could end up that certain races may not have any of the genes that result in the condition so are therefore immune to it.

[quote]There are currently, and have previously been, other similar studies. You mentiooend the NAS. The NAS links to this specific page concerning genetic research into ASD...

geneticliteracyproject.org/.../quote]

The article is a bit too simplistic. I dislike the reference to prodigies as it is a term that lacks a precise definition. Many so called child prodigies in music and mathematics are 'hot housed' by their parents.

Arran said:

I'm not aware of anybody with an official diagnosis of high-functioning AS who has submitted a DNA sample for analysis to determine whether there are any specific genetic markers prevalent in people with the condition. Has the NAS had any involvement in such a project? It's no good analysing thousands of samples of DNA from people with traditional Kanner autism then extrapolating the findings to people with high-functioning AS.

And are you aware of what all 700,000 autistic people in the UK have done with regards to DNA research? I allowed university researchers to take a DNA sample from me earlier this year. There may be others on this forum who have done so too, for all I know.

An example of DNA based research specifically targeting those with Aspergers, rather than classic autism...

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/.../full

There are currently, and have previously been, other similar studies. You mentiooend the NAS. The NAS links to this specific page concerning genetic research into ASD...

geneticliteracyproject.org/.../

NAS13026 said:

What is the issue BTW, you keep changing it. Now apparently the issue is the "teaching of academic stuff" at a very young age of around 3 years old. Can you provide some evidence for this claim other than the experiences of one solitary person? There are reckoned to be around 700,000 autistic people in the UK so if you wish to prove some sort of trends you need to provide more evidence for your theory than one solitary example which, as I've already stated, is countered by the opposing solitary example of my own experience.

Traditional Kanner autism is a mature and well documented subject backed up by a body of research spanning nearly 70 years but it only represents a small corner of ASD. In contrast, high-functioning AS is a subject that has only existed in mainstream psychology in English speaking countries for about 25 years and what is currently known about it is just the tip of the iceberg. There are many unanswered questions about high-functioning AS. The exact cause of the condition is just one of them. I'm not aware of anybody with an official diagnosis of high-functioning AS who has submitted a DNA sample for analysis to determine whether there are any specific genetic markers prevalent in people with the condition. Has the NAS had any involvement in such a project? It's no good analysing thousands of samples of DNA from people with traditional Kanner autism then extrapolating the findings to people with high-functioning AS.

Arran said:

Have there been any families where one sibling has high-functioning AS and another sibling has traditional Kanner autism?

Yes, the family of Jacqueline Jackson of Blackpool, England. Jacqui has seven children, four boys and three girls. Of the four boys; two have developmental conditions other than autism but second son Luke has Asperger Syndrome and youngest son Benjamin has classic autism. One of the girls, Sarah, is diagnosed with ASD.

Jacqui and her family featured in a BBC documentary called "My Family And Autism (2003). A drama based on their life, called "Magnificent 7" and starring Helena Bonham Carter, was also screened by the BBC in 2005.

At the age of thirteen (in 2002) Luke Jackson wrote a book called "Freaks, Geeks And Asperger Syndrome: A Users Guide To Adolescence," which is available on Amazon and elsewhere. This year he published a sequel "Sex, Drugs And Asperger's Syndrome (ASD)," which is also available on Amazon and elsewhere.

Arran: Your accuse me of make a "weak counterargument" by raising a strawman? I wrote "As for putting pressure on children to acheive there was once an examination called the "Eleven Plus" which was a standard part of the British education system until the very early 1970s." Then you mention LEAs in the 70s and 80s, which is outside the period that I stated and therefore has no bearing whatsoever on my statement. Until the early 1970s the Eleven Plus examination was a nationwide examination and as such it was used in all schools, for decades. After the early 1970s, due to changes in the education system brought about by a changing political agenda, the Eleven Plus was phased out nationally but was retained optionally in a very few LEAs.

What is the issue BTW, you keep changing it. Now apparently the issue is the "teaching of academic stuff" at a very young age of around 3 years old. Can you provide some evidence for this claim other than the experiences of one solitary person? There are reckoned to be around 700,000 autistic people in the UK so if you wish to prove some sort of trends you need to provide more evidence for your theory than one solitary example which, as I've already stated, is countered by the opposing solitary example of my own experience.

laddie49 said:

No idea Arran  but the link posted by BIMOG lists a huge number of research projects about genetic links to autism dating back to 2003 and through to 2016.

It's just a Google search. I am focusing on the higher-functioning end of AS which could be caused by different factors than traditional Kanner autism.

Have there been any families where one sibling has high-functioning AS and another sibling has traditional Kanner autism?

laddie49 said:

Arran, both you and Recombinantsocks on another thread have introduced WW2  into discussions without explaining what you mean.

I find that slightly disturbing.

I find it very disturbing but probably in a way that's different from what you are thinking. It's a recent research finding that I'm looking at in more detail. I may or may not post it here because there is a guilt by association factor.

Arran, both you and Recombinantsocks on another thread have introduced WW2  into discussions without explaining what you mean.

I find that slightly disturbing.

Unless you are prepared to elaborate exactly why it is relevant to this forum I suggest you refrain from making those comments.

Laddie.

Martian Tom and Ferret,

You clearly have strong and clear views. How about enlightening us with your reasons for such views.

What do you know we don't?

Laddie.

I was sorry to hear about your loss Tom.

Laddie.

No idea Arran  but the link posted by BIMOG lists a huge number of research projects about genetic links to autism dating back to 2003 and through to 2016.

Have a look and let us know what springs to mind.

Laddie.

laddie49 said:

When the experts have done their work and come to some kind of consensus which has been peer reviewed and published I have no doubt the NAS will publish the results.

Who exactly are these so called experts and how have they got their hand on the DNA of people with AS?

As a researcher of AS I find it has a very chequered history and it is possible that people with AS (regardless of what causes it) are the victims of WW2 era politics.

NAS13026 said:

As for putting pressure on children to acheive there was once an examination called the "Eleven Plus" which  was a standard part of the British education system until the very early 1970s. If a child passed that single exam it determined whether that child progressed to a grammar school, for academic study, which then opened the route to university and a well paid middle class job. Failure to pass the exam (and there were no re-sits) consigned a child to a secondary school and a second class education, where they learned the basic practical skills they'd need to be able to perform as unskilled labourers and factory fodder. So, if a single exam at age eleven exam that determined a child's entire future as an adult wasn't a big incentive to push children academically then I don't know what is.

It's a weak counterargument. The 11 plus is taken at the age of 11 so most of the teaching and studying for it would have taken place in years 5 and 6. If you read the OP then the issue is teaching academic stuff at a very young age of around 3 years old. There were also many LEAs during the 1970s and 80s that did not operate the 11 plus exam.

Ferret said:

utter twaddle. 

Yep.

It seems there is a lot of research going on indeed BIMOG. Thanks for the link.

I think it is wrong to come to a firm conclusion either way based on one or two case studies.

When the experts have done their work and come to some kind of consensus which has been peer reviewed and published I have no doubt the NAS will publish the results.

Laddie.

Arran said:

If it were a result of nuture then all siblings in a family, who were raised in the same manner, would be on the spectrum.

Read the OP. The siblings were not all raised in the same manner.

[/quote]

Again you're referring to one specific example. I was referring to the concept in general but if you want specifics: I had three sisters and a brother, we were all raised by the same two parents in the same house and we all went to the same infants and primary schools. I am on the autistic spectrum, none of my siblings are.

laddie49 said:

Hi BIMOG,

ASC is a spectrum condition as I understand it and when I first researched my own symptoms I read that up until approx 10years ago most experts believed in the nurture option. Since then I have read some papers on the Research Autism website (before it was absorbed into the NAS) that were looking at a genetic diagnosis option but they were inconclusive.

My experience is that there is a distinct heritability relationship with ASC but again influenced by nurture in the early years of development.

I may be wrong if there is fresh research which has proved this one way or the other but I am not aware of it.

Laddie.

Research seems to be changing the understanding of the genetic basis for autistic condition at an ever increasing rate...

scholar.google.co.uk/scholar