Love

Out of curiosity ~ I’ll put it on here because the other thread is pretty long ~ but do people of the conditional love variety, ever wonder about my love. For example, do you see it as something worse, or better (your terms) or is it just a different kind of love to yours, no better, no worse, just different. I suppose I’m asking, do you deny the existence of my world like I do poverty etc? I haven’t got any qualms with your love, now that  I understand it, as much as I ever will, I just wonder what you think of my love? 

I don't think there's anything 'wrong' with it (your idea of love), I don't think that's for me (or anyone) to judge. It's just different from mine. I don't deny the existence of anything for other people, whatever a person believes is 'real' and exists for them. It just doesn't necessarily exist for me.

Some people believe in ghosts, some believe in god(s), some believe in evil, some believe in all sorts of things that i can't even begin to comprehend and for those people these things are 'real' and exist. For me they just don't exist. I don't spend much time thinking about things that don't exist. Obviously I CAN, if I want to, in a hypothetical way, I just don't choose to very often.    

I don't think there's anything 'wrong' with it (your idea of love), I don't think that's for me (or anyone) to judge. It's just different from mine. I don't deny the existence of anything for other people, whatever a person believes is 'real' and exists for them. It just doesn't necessarily exist for me.

Some people believe in ghosts, some believe in god(s), some believe in evil, some believe in all sorts of things that i can't even begin to comprehend and for those people these things are 'real' and exist. For me they just don't exist. I don't spend much time thinking about things that don't exist. Obviously I CAN, if I want to, in a hypothetical way, I just don't choose to very often.    

How is someone unkind or cruel to another? I don’t understand? I know some people say things are unkind and cruel but I observe people and what one person says is unkind and cruel another doesn’t, so I have no real idea of what is or isn’t unkind or cruel. In my world it doesn’t exist, we have only love and law so I have to learn from you guys and so far nobody has given me the complete plan and rule set of what is unkind and cruel and what isn’t. 

I don’t understand the stuff you wrote about god, I understand my god, but it is clearly not shared by others. I see people make things like money their god. I see them devote as much love to their god as I do to mine, to the degree that they even put their own health and sometimes their lives at risk to get more of their god/money, they do jobs they hate because they say they get paid at the end of a week or month, it’s all worth it for the money, so I see that their god is money and I don’t argue with that, it’s just not mine so in my eyes it’s a ‘false’ god but I know it’s very real for other people and other people say my god of infinite unconditional love is a false god, so there’s nothing to argue about, we both actually think the same things, we just have different gods. 

WoW ~ there are people I get on with more than others but I find most people fascinating and intriguing so that brings us both nearly in line, but what about the people you don’t get along with or the ones you like the least, how do you learn to un love them? I’ve observed others and sought advice and nobody knows how to answer me and observing people shows no real pattern amongst people, they all seem to have different ideas. Maybe you can tell me, at last. How do you un love the people you don’t like and is it ok to love them and then un love them (when you find out how to do it) once you find out you don’t like them? Because there’s a lot of people in the world and you often don’t know if you’ll enjoy spending time with them until you actually spend time with them, so is it ok to love everyone like I do and then unlove them as and when you come across them? That seems a bit like that evil you were talking about, learning to unlove someone just because you don’t want to hang out with them, but if that’s the way you guys do it, and there’s plenty of you, maybe that is the right way and if so, yes, I can see that evil exists, we make it. I’m starting to understand. And after you’ve unloved them, does that mean you then hate them? I’m starting to understand now where all the hatred comes from, it’s simply what you feel for the ones you don’t love! Ha, it’s starting to make sense. Thank you. It’s just the opppsite of love and that’s why it is so acceptable in your world, because it’s not a bad thing, it’s simply what you do with people you don’t love. That makes sense. 

Oh I’ve had/have some amazing romantic relationships, in fact people say they’ve never experienced what I have but that they want to. I have several deep and passionate and totally intoxicating relationships with a few guys around the world who say they love their relationship with me, apparently they fall out and argue with other girlfriends over weird stuff like forgetting birthdays or something or not cleaning the house, but with me they say they don’t argue, obviously, why would I argue with them? That wouldn’t make sense, I love being with them, we have a great time together, even if they or me is sad and going through a hard time, we still have a great time and I go back years with some of these guys, some I’ve known all my life and we’re as good friends now as we were in primary school being naughty, teasing the teachers. But I don’t go in for all that stuff where people say I’ll love you forever, which I think is weird, because of course you will, what else will you do, why would you even think you wouldn’t. It’s itritating to me when people say that because I think of course you’ll love me forever, how could you not? And I don’t like all that possession and control stuff, I’d rather shoot myself than get involved with that kind of carry on. So I do have romantic relationships, they’re just more committed probably than most people’s. Most people  seem to swap and change their partners but they are often the ones  who actually say the commitment out loud but then don’t stick to it. Maybe they should take it for granted like me and not say it and that way they might keep their committememts. I don’t know, what do I know, I’m trying to learn from you guys. 

I don’t know how not to love somebody. What I want to know is how do you un-love somebody? And how do you know who to un-love and when? And what has love got to do with feelings?  And yes, I’ve been told that all my life, that I ask difficult questions. Lol! Everywhere I go infact, even in the supermarket not long ago, the guy said to me ‘nobody has ever asked me that question before’ ~ I get this ‘all’ the time! Lol! Which further supports my (and yours, everyone’s) assumption, that I know nothing and I know so little that people can’t even begin to answer my questions, like I don’t even know enough to even begin to understand the answers so people don’t even bother telling me, they don’t want to waste their time when they know I won’t understand anyway. By the time I had reached the end of my school I resigned myself to the fact that I knew nothing. At probably my last meeting at school with my parents, the school actually wanted to send me to a psychiatrist, I thought they were going to lock me up in the hospital like they did my aunty, because they said I did what I wanted. I was terrified because they wouldn’t tell me who I should follow, who I should listen to to find out what to do and when do I get the instructions. It was terrifying, they wouldn’t tell me anything. Less than two years after that, I was locked up, but it wasn’t in a hospital, it was in a prison. I was so lost in the world. I knew I wasn’t supposed to do what I wanted but nobody else would tell me what to do. They might tell me things what not to do but that was hardly the big picture, they only told me a few things, so I was really lost. I still know that I don’t know anything, not in your world anyway, but I decided that I would do what I wanted anyway, even though I know it’s wrong, but I figured that it’s only wrong if I live in your world and I don’t, nobody seems to be able to help me with that, my questions are too hard etc, so I just live in my world where wrong doesn’t even exist, and I can love everyone!  So I know I’m wrong in your world but in my world I’m far from wrong, we don’t even know what that is. People in your world tell me I’m wrong, I’m deluded, I’m mad, I’m stupid, I don’t know anything, I haven’t got a heart. Some of these things I can agree with, I don’t know anything for example, that’s true but I have got a heart, I don’t know why people say that to me. Again, all my life they’ve said that to me. My dad and brother even said I was going to be found dead on a motel room floor, brutally murdered, because of how I speak to people and that I’ll never have any friends (I didn’t know what a f*****g friend was to be fair, but it seemed important so I was still upset that I’d never have one, which obviously is stupid, so maybe I am stupid). I sometimes feel like I’m going mad and maybe I am mad and deluded and it’s not real but my world feels real to me and when I’m with the trees and grass and rain and snow and definitely the cold and the wind, my world totally feels real and it’s so beautiful, I don’t need to know anything, I’ve even got my grandkids talking to the trees now, lol! So maybe I am all of the things people say about me. Tom said I was deluded, lots of people do. Maybe I am all the things people say I am, even the thing about not having a heart because it’s true, I can’t  say I love somebody more than somebody else just because they do something for me so maybe I haven’t got a heart and maybe what I have to give is of no value to anybody else but people do come to me and ask me to help them and I do and it seems to make me look normal and people leave me alone so maybe my life is nothing and I  live in a stupid deluded world. I have said I’m like the village idiot and back in the day no doubts that’s  what I would have been and people say no, you’re not the village idiot (again I’m wrong, when that’s how I do see myself) but again we’re at odds, I don’t see anything wrong with the village idiot, he was accepted then, he was one of them, just different, without all the extra things like no heart etc, so it would be a step up for me. But when I’m alone, I don’t feel like my world isn’t real and I feel so happy in a way that other people say doesn’t exist but it exists to me and the alternative, trying to ignore my world, my love and to try to fit in with everyone else just sends me to suicide. I fantasise about how wonderful it would feel to have a car hit my body full on and smash it up, the impact would feel so good, it’s like I want the image to go in slow motion so I don’t miss any of it and then, I go back home, back to the nothingness and everythingness from where I came, no longer with this silly separation where I have to pretend to be these different people/roles, I just melt back into oblivion, I lose all this so called identity and dissolve back into one, without this body, which I’m grateful for, but I think they dropped me in the wrong world to be honest, because everyone keeps on telling me so, they say I’m wrong. So maybe I am but what can I do? I tried, I asked questions, and now I don’t even want to try, I don’t want to leave my world ever again, so I live in your world as me, and just accept, I know nothing, I am nobody, I don’t know the rules of the game but if I can keep my mouth shut and keep away from people, I won’t p***s them off and I don’t have to stay away from all people, I don’t seem to upset people at Buddhist centres, meditation centre and ashrams (although you can fortunately, be totally silent at these places and sometimes everybody is) and churches, although I do usually upset people at churches too, that’s why Quaker’s is good for me but even there I started answering people back (one man anyway) in the silent hour when you’re only supposed to speak if your moved by god! Lol! So I haven’t been to Quaker’s for a while either although me and the man did become good friends. So I do have friends and they never end (apart from those who simply disappear out of my life without word) they just don’t look like the normal types of friendships where people phone each other up and see each other a lot and stuff like that, and they don’t think I’m stupid or delusional, they just say ‘oh, that’s just BlueRay’ and they don’t try to make me do things differently.

I don’t believe in evil or different gods but I do understand that people have gods such as money, which I think of as a false god but I understand that’s my perception and it’s very real and far from false to them, and I’m quite sure many people wouldn’t be doing the jobs they were doing etc if money wasn’t their god, so yeah, I can see it’s very real to a lot of people.

In that you state that you don't believe in evil, do you not know that evil is malevolence or ill will towards or by others in terms of being unkind or cruel?

And in terms of not believing in different gods, God is absolute vibrational being, and gods are lesser vibrational beings ~ which are embodied by the Goddess, as is infinite dimensional and finite formational becomings.

Just one question, the people who practice conditional love, how the hell do you all figure out who to love and who not to love because you all seem to know the rules?

People who practice conditional love figure out who they love according to who they get on with the most, and find most fascinating or intriguing.

And when did you/do you actually get taught the rules?

People learn them more or less according to their ability to do so, and by observing others and seeking advice.

How could I have missed them? 

Your emotional abilities may not have been developed enough, or maybe even not as yet adequately facilitated for or romantically enabled, possibly?

When did I (because I can only speak for myself on this) get taught the rules of love? PHEW!

BlueRay you do ask some difficult questions! 

Maybe it was a process of elimination, every time I got burnt I decided "Well, Hell! THAT'S not a good feeling so THAT clearly isn't the 'Love' I keep hearing about!

Yeah, I find it very comforting as well and I think I’ll always talk to them, I think I always have so can’t imagine not doing it. I can’t look at the stars either without remembering them all, and there’s quite a list, so it’s good for helping me with memory skills as well. I have little jokes as well, such as I often wonder if my 3 best friend’s (all male) can see me now, so therefore when I’m naked etc, so there’s no place to hide in my life! Lol! I imagine they see everything so it’s like I’m sharing my life with them in a way I wouldn’t with a live person. I think I feel closer to them all now than when they were alive. 

I frequently, probably at least once a week, say good morning or whatever to all the people in my life who have died, such as grandparents, family, and friends, I talk to them pretty regularly and often ask for the advice etc as well. I have no idea if they hear me or not, if doesn’t really matter, because they’re in my heart and I just like to talk to them and stuff and keep them in my life. 

I do this all the time - particularly with mum.  I keep a ritual every Wednesday evening, between 7 pm and 7.22 pm - the last 22 minutes I spent alone with her before she passed.  I light candles... and I sit and think about her, and talk to her.  It's very comforting.  I can't think I'll ever not do it.

I never really think about life after death and that kind of stuff either, I just figure that if there is life after death then I’ll certainly find out about it after I die so I’m ok to wait until then to find out, if there’s anything to find out. But when I was living in the Isle of Man, there was what I thought could be a short cut to work but I was never early enough setting off to work to try it out. However, one morning when I was setting off to walk to work, I saw a lady walking the short cut way, so I thought great, I’ll follow her. She wasn’t too far ahead of me but further than my reach and I didn’t just want to shout, oi lady, or whatever so I quickened my pace to catch up to her, because I wanted to chat to her as we were walking. But after a while, she disappeared, I thought she must have gone through an enclosed door or something but there was nothing but a brick wall, a dead end and on the right hand side was a massive hedge leading to the bowling club that nobody could have disappeared through. When I got to work, my colleague asked, what was she wearing, and I said thinking about it, she had an old fashioned nurses outfit on and my friend said she asked because the lady took me to what was the entrance to the old maternity hospital, so I guess I saw a ghost then. I also had very clear communication with a dead person once, my friend, which was really weird. I frequently, probably at least once a week, say good morning or whatever to all the people in my life who have died, such as grandparents, family, and friends, I talk to them pretty regularly and often ask for the advice etc as well. I have no idea if they hear me or not, if doesn’t really matter, because they’re in my heart and I just like to talk to them and stuff and keep them in my life. 

Endymion said:

I don't think there's anything 'wrong' with it (your idea of love), I don't think that's for me (or anyone) to judge. It's just different from mine. I don't deny the existence of anything for other people, whatever a person believes is 'real' and exists for them. It just doesn't necessarily exist for me.

Some people believe in ghosts, some believe in god(s), some believe in evil, some believe in all sorts of things that i can't even begin to comprehend and for those people these things are 'real' and exist. For me they just don't exist. I don't spend much time thinking about things that don't exist. Obviously I CAN, if I want to, in a hypothetical way, I just don't choose to very often.    

I agree with this.  As I've said on the other thread, I respect anyone's wishes to believe whatever they want to believe - as long as it isn't something that is designed to harm others, or be exclusionist or negatively-judgmental of non-followers.  There are too many such people in the world, and they do enormous amounts of harm.  Not just to others, but to themselves.

I don't believe in gods, or abstract concepts like 'good' and 'evil'.  I reserve judgment, though, on some other spiritual matters.  I'm not sure I believe in life after death or reincarnation, either.  But some very strange things have happened to me in my life, and they defy any rational explanation that I can attempt.  Much of it centres around my mother, and the immediate aftermath of her passing away.  I accept that, with the mental state I was then in, I could have been susceptible... or, perhaps, more 'sensitive' than normal.  I kept finding coins with significant years of minting on them - significant for both mum and myself.  Foreign coins, even.  And I found them at particular times - such as when I'd been diverted from an intended course by some obstruction when out walking, or when I'd felt myself oddly 'drawn' to a particular place.  I also found a book where it wouldn't normally be - in the waiting room of the registrar when I went to register her death.  Not an ordinary book, mind.  A favourite book of mine.  Not one you're likely to find in charity shops or libraries, either.  An obscure one.  I found feathers after I'd been told I would find them.  All could be simple coincidence, of course.  But these things were hugely reassuring.  I saw a medium who knew nothing about me whatsoever... yet she described my past and present life in great detail, and gave me specific names of people.  Not random ones, such as you sometimes find with mediums.  Very specific, with qualities of those people attached to them.

And I also saw my mother's ghost - the day after her funeral.  It was very strange.  I was with a neighbour of hers in an adjacent flat, telling her how it had all gone.  I was alone at the bungalow, continuing with the clearance.  I was just leaving this neighbour when I spotted someone - from the corner of my eye - going towards mum's bungalow.  It was the figure of a woman in a white dress and white sandals, and for some odd reason I thought it was a nurse.  I took my leave and dashed out.  The interval was no more than 5 seconds.  But there was no one there... and positively nowhere they could have gone in the time.  I was stumped.  Then it struck me.  Mum had a white dress and a pair of white sandals.  That's all I'd really seen, because the upper body was obscured by the door frame.  I turned around, and the neighbour I'd been talking to was standing there.  She asked who it was.  I said there was no one, and I couldn't understand it.  But she must have understood something, because she said 'That's how they appear to us, you know.  Out of the corner of the eye.'

I'm essentially a rationalist person.  But...well... I know what I saw.  Or what my mind tricked me into seeing.  I know which explanation I prefer...

Well I saw a ghost once, having never believed in them, and that was pretty cool! Lol! I don’t believe in evil or different gods but I do understand that people have gods such as money, which I think of as a false god but I understand that’s my perception and it’s very real and far from false to them, and I’m quite sure many people wouldn’t be doing the jobs they were doing etc if money wasn’t their god, so yeah, I can see it’s very real to a lot of people. Just one question, the people who practice conditional love, how the hell do you all figure out who to love and who not to love because you all seem to know the rules? And when did you/do you actually get taught the rules? How could I have missed them?