Bullies

The last person to ever either realise or accept that they are a bully... is a bully.

That's the general principle as I've come to understand it in life, and I've suffered more than my fair share of bullies - from schooldays to the present time.

The biggest bully I've encountered in recent years is my sister-in-law.  She's a pro.  No matter how strongly I come out of my corner, ready to fight back - she always has the sucker punch ready to deliver.  And it always hits its target.  My eloquence deserts me whenever I'm confronted by her.  She turns me into a gibbering fool.  She's had plenty of  practice.  That's another thing about a bully.  They always know who's ripe for bullying.

She's not well-educated, but she knows everything.  If you can give her chapter and verse on any subject under the sun, she'll rubbish it.  If she disagrees with you, she expresses it in a way that isn't about accepting that you have a valid point of view that you're entitled to hold.  She expresses it in a way that says it's wrong.  End of.  She's devious.  She's manipulative.  She loves to set one person off against another, then sit back and watch the fun.  She's a small-town girl with a small-town mind.  But that doesn't matter.  Because she's mastered her art.  You'll never get one over on her.  She's a world champ of the put-down.  She's the consummate passive-aggressive communicator.  She'll make you apologise to her, even if she's the one who's done the wrong.  She'll cover up her own mistakes by displacing them onto others.  She is, of course, chronically insecure.  Most bullies are.  Their bullying - their belittling of their victims, who may be superior in all senses - is their way of dealing with their insecurity.  And their reducing their victims to bumbling messes is their way of assuring themselves of their self-perceived superiority.

Recently, it was suggested to me that my sister-in-law is a narcissist.  I hadn't considered her in those terms before, so I looked it up to see what the classic signs are:

1. Conversation Hoarder. The narcissist loves to talk about him or herself, and doesn’t give you a chance to take part in a two-way conversation. You struggle to have your views and feelings heard. When you do get a word in, if it’s not in agreement with the narcissist, your comments are likely to be corrected, dismissed, or ignored.

2. Conversation Interrupter. While many people have the poor communication habit of interrupting others, the narcissist interrupts and quickly switches the focus back to herself. He shows little genuine interest in you.  

3. Boundary Violator. Shows wanton disregard for other people’s thoughts, feelings, possessions, and physical space. Oversteps and uses others without consideration or sensitivity. Borrows items or money without returning. Breaks promises and obligations repeatedly. Shows little remorse and blames the victim for one’s own lack of respect.

4. False Image Projection. Many narcissists like to do things to impress others by making themselves look good externally. This “trophy” complex can exhibit itself physically, romantically, sexually, socially, religiously, financially, materially, professionally, academically, or culturally. In these situations, the narcissist uses people, objects, status, and/or accomplishments to represent the self, substituting for the perceived, inadequate “real” self. These grandstanding “merit badges” are often exaggerated. The underlying message of this type of display is: “I’m better than you!” or “Look at how special I am—I’m worthy of everyone’s love, admiration, and acceptance!”

5. Entitlement. Narcissists often expect preferential treatment from others. They expect others to cater (often instantly) to their needs, without being considerate in return. In their mindset, the world revolves around them.

6. Charmer. Narcissists can be very charismatic and persuasive. When they’re interested in you (for their own gratification), they make you feel very special and wanted. However, once they lose interest in you (most likely after they’ve gotten what they want, or became bored), they may drop you without a second thought. A narcissist can be very engaging and sociable, as long as you’re fulfilling what she desires, and giving her all of your attention.

7. Grandiose Personality.  Thinking of oneself as a hero or heroine, a prince or princess, or one of a kind special person. Some narcissists have an exaggerated sense of self-importance, believing that others cannot live or survive without his or her magnificent contributions. 

8. Negative Emotions. Many narcissists enjoy spreading and arousing negative emotions to gain attention, feel powerful, and keep you insecure and off-balance. They are easily upset at any real or perceived slights or inattentiveness. They may throw a tantrum if you disagree with their views, or fail to meet their expectations. They are extremely sensitive to criticism, and typically respond with heated argument (fight) or cold detachment (flight). On the other hand, narcissists are often quick to judge, criticize, ridicule, and blame you. Some narcissists are emotionally abusive. By making you feel inferior, they boost their fragile ego, and feel better about themselves.

9. Manipulation: Using Others as an Extension of Self. Making decisions for others to suit one’s own needs. The narcissist may use his or her romantic partner, child, friend, or colleague to meet unreasonable self-serving needs, fulfill unrealized dreams or cover up self-perceived inadequacies and flaws.

Absolutely, she ticks the box on every point.  No wonder I (and, it should be said, other family members) have had such a tough time at her hands.  My brother, of course, is totally under her spell.  She's changed him over the course of the years to be more like her.  She's estranged him from his natural children, whereas her child - his step-daughter - is the 'golden' one who can do no wrong.  She's her mother's agent and confederate.  She's also a narcissist.

Having struggled for years with her, a therapist I saw after mum passed away told me that the only thing I could do was to stop feeding the beast.  And the only ways to do that would either be to agree with everything that they say, thus depriving them of reasons to react.  Or cut them out of your life completely.

I said that the latter would be difficult.  She's married to my brother, after all.  Her reply?  'He's made his choice.  You now have to make yours.  Keep her in your life and continue to suffer damage - or put her (and him) out of your life and move on.'

Which is what I'm doing - sad and desperate though that might seem.  But they're not really interested in me, so what is there to lose?

Anyone else had any experiences at the hands of such individuals?

  • just when you thought you'd escaped....they pull you back in???

  • You do what suits you.  Don't worry about me Slight smile

    I had a really bad day that day, and there was a bit of a negative vibe, so I just wanted to step back.  I want to stay around... just not so 'present'.  There's nowhere else to go, really.  Facebook's alright, but I can take that or leave it.  I swing around with things a bit.  Some days, I just want to get away.  And then I miss the place.

  • ditto.....would you prefer me reverting back to Elephant status.......with all the Jelly Ellie wobbles with several unsettling's in this community...I was on the verge of "Doing a Martian" and evacuating stage left!!

  • Yes.  Voted.  I hope it goes!

  • it certainly does.... did you see the vote thread  re: the leaderboard such up by the moderators

  • Sometimes it's good to just sit and read rather than take part.  There are a few new people around.  I've been tempted, but it takes over sometimes.

  • Oooooh very interesting discussions.........bet you're glad you're out of it!!! :P

  • now I'm paranoid!!! - LOL

  • Thanks, x.  Still can't get used to your new handle!  Interesting discussions going on at the moment, I see.

  • Scary!!!! I love your statement - "stabbing the carpet with her high heels"

    So....it looks like we al need strategies in terms of what to do when we face such people...before the self is gnawed away at too much and we all end up as complete recluses!

    Hope the book is going well, BTW

  • . said:
    t is a shame as I am a sociable wee thing....but sometimes fear of people (particularly those whose intentions I can't read) can put me back down my rabbit hole.  I also think that people talk to me because they want something...and I panic if I think that I can't give them that.  I also (due to self esteem) don't expect people to walk to talk to me on my own merit....I always expect an agenda.......is that paranoid, or what!!!

      I could have written that!

  • Thanks, Misfit.  Like you, I have the intelligence and the vocabulary and reasoning skills to be able to address many things in life.  Just not bullies.  They always find my Achilles Heel because they know it's there - by instinct.  I think I mentioned before that the very worst bully (aside from SIL) that I ever encountered in adult life was when I worked at a local hospital 20 years ago.  She reduced me to a wreck.  I was so traumatised by her treatment that I was sick for months.  I was scared to go out in case I bumped into her (she lived in the same town then).  And then I find out, just a couple of years ago, that she's founded an anti-bullying charity because her teenage son had committed suicide through being bullied at school.  A terrible tragedy.  But knowing this woman as I did - and others I've met who also knew her said the same about her - I can't help but wonder what she was like as a mother.  She was truly horrifying.  Narcissistic, manipulative, deceitful - always blaming others for her own mistakes.  She even walked in a bullying way - almost stabbing the carpet with her high heels.  You could hear her coming a long way off.  I think she may have even been a bit psychopathic.

  • like Guinea Pigs!! :) - lol!

    Boxes are no good....it is not healthy is it?

  • Thank you Tom for sharing your life so honestly and openly. It takes courage to face difficulties in our families and to make decisions as apposed to sitting on the fence. Reading what you have said helps when thinking of our own situations and it is only by people (such as your kind self) sharing that we are able to do that. I hope telling us has has helped you know what to write in your book.  It is bound to generate difficult emotions as you are focussing so hard on details. It's like the pros and cons list when trying to decide something.. to help tease out thoughts. it's not necessarily the actual list you make which does the trick but the process of doing that seems to kick in the instinct to guide you to an answer . 

  • Hi everyone,

    Thanks.  It's been interesting reading your responses.  I only came on and posted this last night because I'd been working on my book about my time with mum and had reached a stage of talking about family issues.  I want to be honest with what I say, at the same time as trying to be diplomatic.  Maybe that's the dreaded people-pleaser in me coming out again.  I firmly believe that honesty is the best policy with something like this.  I remember the novelist Hanif Kureishi saying that when he taught creative writing at university, he often had students say to him 'I want to talk about so-and-so - but they're in my family, and I don't want to hurt them.'  He always insisted that they had to be truthful, otherwise the falsity of the account would come through.  He himself has 'lost' a sister after something he said about her - albeit in a fictionalised sense - in one of his books.  The character was loosely based on her, but she was clearly able to figure it out.

    I'm torn.  I used to be very close to my brother - especially so when he was married to his first wife, the father of his children.  Both of them, though, have been damaged by this woman - my niece especially so.  She has constant tears over it all.  The second wife has been on the scene now for over 30 years, and it's always been a difficult time.  No one on my side of the family likes her.  She's like this big ogre who controls everything.  And my brother is absolutely devoted to her (he probably has little choice!)  And she's changed him, very gradually, over the years.  I've had several spats with her - usually at times of strained emotions, such as after my father died in 2004.  She upset me hugely at that time, and I called her some dreadful names.  We didn't speak for ages - until I made it up to them.  As I've always done.  We've had two long periods of falling-out/no contact... and then I've played the peace-maker again - usually, I admit, for the sake of mum, who didn't like trouble in the family because she'd had so much of it in other ways during her life.  To be frank, if I hadn't done that, I very much doubt they'd have bothered.  She doesn't have much time for me because I'm not in her 'league'.  I don't snap to her fingers, or worship the ground she treads on like others do.  I've been one of the few people in her life to actually stand up to her.  I think, maybe, she always agreed to reconciliations simply as part of her plan to take up where she left off.  She always looks for opportunities to criticise.  When I was looking after mum, she would often come over to visit - and I knew she was looking for reasons to catch me out.  Her daughter, her confederate, was the same.  I learned to say nothing in the daughter's presence, because it always got back and rebounded on me.

    After mum passed, I spilled it all out to the bereavement counsellor, who was the one who told me I should break contact.  I gave the story to my brother that I wanted time alone and out of contact to deal with my grief, and he bought that.  Since then, four months ago, I've maintained contact with him via a weekly exchange of texts.  We keep it civil.  I sent him a card and present on his birthday, and the same with her a few weeks later, in spite of the counsellor's trepidation about such a thing.  I got a text of thanks from her, to which I replied with civility.  Nothing since.  It all feels like a very artificial relationship now, and I'm sure if I said to him 'Look... let's stop this pretence and go our separate ways', he'd probably agree to it.  It feels a bit like clinging on just for old times' sake.  But then... he's my next-of-kin.  I think he probably suffers in his own way, and I don't want to rock the boat further.  So... I'm trying to make this written account as balanced as I can. I acknowledge that my experience is subjective.  At the same time, I feel the truth needs to be told about how I feel and have felt over the years.  On top of it all... she's a sick woman now.  She has a heart condition, and anything could happen at any time.  If anyone has seen the film 'Manchester-by-the-Sea', they'll understand the situation.  If anything happens to her, my brother will be destroyed.  Do I want to add something to that in what I write?  Kick him while he's down?  Of course, this is all supposing that the writing becomes public.  But I want to try to publish it, even if I do it myself, and they are bound to know one way or another. 

    I have to say that, since mum's passing, she has been very supportive and helpful.  As the counsellor said, though, 'Maybe it's too little, too late.  The damage has been done.'  She took control of the funeral arrangements.  She said it was because both myself and my brother needed to have someone strong at the time, which is true (though, actually, I handled things quite strongly in the end).  Knowing her as I do, though, I can't help thinking that it was more about her doing what she likes to do: show she's in control.  She said that mum had told her things that she wanted about the arrangements - mum didn't want to upset me or my brother with it - but some of those arrangements didn't strike me as 'true'.  Flowers, for instance, which I'd always thought mum hadn't wanted.  SIL said she told her she did.  But then... SIL is a florist!  Mum had also stipulated 'no squabbles' at the funeral (thinking back, no doubt, to what happened after dad's).  But on the day, she and her daughter both started squabbling with my neice.  Or, at least, making passive-aggressive comments.  I've now heard that my SIL is continuing to slag off my neice.  She came unstuck, though - dissing her to someone whom she thought would agree, but who actually threw it back at her and came to my neice's defence. So... the stirring and damage is continuing.

    I think I'm doing the right thing by keeping my distance now.  And maybe I've answered my own question: the time for the truth is ripe, and it needs to be told.

    Sorry to go on.  I just got so bound up in it all yesterday that I couldn't think straight.  So it was interesting to get other perspectives.

    Thanks again.  Hope you're all okay.

    Tom x

  • I think I have probably been bullied all my life but as I'm not really sure what bullying is in terms of people in my life then I'm not sure. I just know that even when I try to expect nothing ..that doesn't work either and am easily hurt. I don't have the defences, armoury, quick replies, strategies etc to deal with the intermittent barbed comments , or the air of disapproval or the intentional description of someone who in their opinion really does need help and implication that it's my fault which I already feel. So I now I have boxed myself in to protect myself and get ignored or criticised for that too. Not good is it! That's why I try to take pleasure from small things. 

  • QuirkyFriend said:
    "No contact if there is no need for contact, and mitigate risk if there is a need"

    Hi Guys

    I have no contact with most of my family - and agree with your statement.  My rule of thumb with people (which sounds terribly sad and cynical) -is "expect nothing and you won't be disappointed"

    I have also experienced the who gambit of bullies - psychological, physical and emotional and tend to now just go into "shutdown" - (in most cases) if I feel threatened - don't feed the beast!!

    However such experiences do damage self esteem - whether consciously, or not.

    So I try where I can, to engage with people....this environment is ideal....as I can interact when I want and get a chance to articulate more clearly want I want to say and process in my own time peoples responses.

    it is a shame as I am a sociable wee thing....but sometimes fear of people (particularly those whose intentions I can't read) can put me back down my rabbit hole.  I also think that people talk to me because they want something...and I panic if I think that I can't give them that.  I also (due to self esteem) don't expect people to walk to talk to me on my own merit....I always expect an agenda.......is that paranoid, or what!!!

  • Hi Tom, we don't have a diagnosis for the girls bio mother but she's almost certainly got a PD of some flavour.

    I moderate on a forum for men who are dealing with being victims of spousal abuse, and we say "No contact if there is no need for contact, and mitigate risk if there is a need"

    So in your case if being in touch with your brother is important to you, then being clear with him you are happy to see him but not her because her behaviour is not good for your well-being. He may decide it's not how he wishes to have a relationship with you, but it's both a healthy and appropriate boundary to set. If he says no, you choose between including him in the no contact or the very low contact. My SO does a spectrum of LC to VLC with his highly dysfunctional family of origin, because of their insistence that he should just "man up" and accept the abuse so the kids came from an intact family.

    I set the boundary of "you not her" with my Dad and expected we would be email only contact but he made efforts to visit regularly. Personally I think he came to my place for peace and quiet even if I had strict rules about alcohol (he's a functional alcoholic) that meant he could not drink more than 3 units a night. I'm the only one of his kids who can have really difficult conversations with him like what he wants for a funeral, because I've set such healthy boundaries rather than being angry and frustrated when she's around.

    My most difficult bully in recent years was a medical consultant who I had seen behave badly in my own country, then turn up in the UK with similar goals and aspirations. He realised I knew too much and started a smear campaign. I never gave him the pleasure of a defensive response. Any time it got back to me, I would say "Let Dr S approach my registering body about these issues if he has genuinely got concerns about my practice. This went on ages and I was under scrutiny. Then our CEO of the community health trust spent a day learning about our professional work and sat in with me on a complex case clinic.  When Dr S mentioned me he was challenged to report me by the CEO and when he said "It's not how he chooses to deal with these things, THE CEO called Security and had him escorted off the premises saying that accusations that were not addressed in appropriate ways was bullying and he was no longer welcome in the organisation as an honorary staff member.

    Last thing I heard about this consultant was he is now in Australia...but he's got a big black mark on his record and is not allowed to lead community programs.

    It takes a lot of guts to deal with these people. I have some long term health issues after that battle because I'm.muxh more vulnerable to exhaustion...but I'm so glad I could use boundaries

  • I am starting to think that I have encountered one.  Thank you for something to think about Tom and also for letting me know I didn't push you over any edges.  Hope your book is going well and the thought of your new job is as full of possibility as trepidation. Lovely to hear from you. x