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I have reported your post as abusive

Not sure why really,

1) I have accepted without question that you are autistic. You perhaps seem to have issues with social imagination and theory of mind.

2) I have questioned whether an autistic person would be my first choice of mental health therapist or adviser.

Identifying that someone is autistic isn't abuse on this forum. I have autism, you have autism I identify with you rather than against you. Also, I have left jobs in the past because I wasn't the right type of person for the role.

You may feel abused because you misunderstand other people's intentions. Other people have felt abused by you even though you have not intended to offend.

I apologise for offending you but would repeat my point about critical friends being good for you rather than bad for you.

As you said on your 'Deactivate Account', JEP...

I have reported your post as abusive. 

DeepThought said:

JEP

I've been in two minds whether or not to disclose this. Whilst I have a professional background in fine art, that's what I now do. I also have a long professional background in mental health and addiction as a clinician. My last post was assessing and providing support to doctors and dentists who had mental health and addiction problems. It's a service available on the NHS.

I have quite a lot of experience but realise now by mentioning this I could face further judgement.

As for having as such worked in the NHS for those working in the NHS ~ you do not get judgement for that, seriously ~ you get full on respect for that.

[Removed by moderator] 

Not everybody who works in the NHS is in the right job. The vast majority want to do the right thing and have the best intentions and I have no doubt that JEP has the best intentions. But that does not make them all good at their particular job. I wonder if that position was relinquished in favour of working in fine art because objets d'art can be categorised and dealt with in a way that people cannot.

I, too, think that JEP should stay and take heed of Deepthought's suggestions about rough edges.

All of this may sound negative but sometimes people need critical friends (qv) to point out their failings.

Part of this post has been removed by moderator as it was contravening Rule 4: Be nice to one another and enjoy chatting with others. We encourage conversation and respectful debate; however, insulting posts or comments making personal jibes will not be tolerated - Holly Moderator

Deepthought said:

But as for being committal and intellectually weak ~ how on earth did you get that one. Being committed to all people and intellectually considering multiple interests in a dispute or a discussion is the opposite of what you describe in terms of being weak, as it involves true strength.

Yes, I know - you're right.  I'm unfair on myself.  The phrase 'Sitting on the fence, as usual' has been leveled at me many times in life, and this is what I meant, in truth.  I have very strong political convictions that, in the past, have led me to the 'safety zone' of people who took the same view without equivocation.  Partly, this was about ego defence.  You see, for most of my life, I've been unable to argue my corner properly in any debate situation.  I always get wrong-footed, and therefore left feeling that I don't really understand what I'm talking about.  Invariably, such situations have left me feeling exposed and weakened.  So I tended to avoid them and to stay in situations where I wouldn't be challenged.  Even if I am sure of my ground - such as in a discussion with someone who clearly doesn't know what they're talking about, or is arguing based on prejudice rather than reasoning - I end up wrong-footed.  That doesn't mean that I shy away from hearing alternative opinions, and from considering them.  I detest the type of reactionary thinking that seems to be sweeping through our universities now, where controversial speakers are being silenced to 'protect' sensitive students.  'We're banning so-and-so from coming because he's made statements that are homophobic' - that kind of thing.  Let them speak.  Then take apart what they have to say. 

I've stepped back from that kind of thing now.  I accept that I don't always have all the facts at my fingertips.  I'm not good at 'left-brain' activities that require analysing data, checking one point against another, formulating a thesis that I can use in an argument - drawing on examples, statistics, case studies, etc.  I'm a bad student, in other words! My convictions (if that is, indeed, what they are) are based more upon instinct - a sense of a common humanity, a wish to see a more equal world.  And a dimmed, but undying faith in human nature. 

I like to try to see things in the round - especially in issues that usually polarise opinion.  Crime, for instance, or other forms of anti-social behaviour.  People are all too ready to condemn, and less willing to try to understand the factors involved.  When I worked at the County Court, I found myself in a veritable den of such people.  The only staff there who were qualified to pass judgments were those who wore the wigs and ermine.  Yet many of the rest of the 'backroom' staff were pretty sure about how they stood regarding the average court user.  It was a very patrician, almost Victorian mindset.  I, on the other hand, would never engage with the others in that way.  Which is quite probably one of the reasons that I wasn't liked very much.  They must have seen me as a 'woolly-headed liberal'.  I often used to hear 'You can't sit on the fence with things like this' - even if fence-sitting wasn't quite how I would have termed it.  What's wrong with open-mindedness?  What's wrong with objectivity?  What's wrong with suspending, for a moment, prejudices and assumptions and trying to see things in the round?  My twin roles were as a Divorce Case Manager and as an Insolvency Officer.  The general principle there seemed to be that people got divorced because they couldn't handle marriage and should never have done it in the first place, and that people went bankrupt because they were hopeless with money and expected the public to bail them out (this was in the days before the people who were real experts with money, the bankers, needed us to bail them out!)  Broadly speaking, it was all about 'social dysfunction and moral decay'.  They simply weren't 'right people, like we are.'  Hmph! I never bought into any of that.  I used to try to argue my corner on it.  I reported people for making prejudicial statements - only to be told 'Everyone's entitled to express an opinion.'  No.  In this situation, everyone's entitled to have an opinion. Don't assume everyone else shares it and wants to hear it.  As I say... I wasn't liked.  I stuck it as long as I could, and tried to bring a touch of common humanity to my work.  I'd shake hands with some poor sod who was off up to get his Bankruptcy Order from the judge, and wish them luck.  I don't know - maybe they had been profligate with their money, and squandered it.  Or maybe they'd fallen victim to the new supermarket down the road, which had taken their customers.

I'll say no more.  You get the picture, probably.  I don't always have the courage of my convictions.  But maybe that's because 'conviction' is something that I feel is always open to question.

ElephantInTheRoom said:

Lol......are bandages too old school nowadays! :p

Absolutely not ~ bandages are always there for when you really mess up! Oldschool remains cool - or have I got that mistaken with cryogenic suspension, perhaps? ;-)

Martian Tom said:

I agree.  I think you should be Secretary-General of the United Nations, DT - though I doubt such a role would appeal to you in other respects.

Secretary-General of the United Nations?

I think there is enough trouble going on in the world without adding any more of me to it ~ although I very much agree with your doubts about the other respects too.

Martian Tom said:

In the world of politics and social ethics, 'deep-thinking' is something that seems to be sadly lacking.  I'd like to think that most people go into such roles to make a difference.  But that sadly seems to be almost the naivest reason of all.

'Deep-thinking' in the world of politics and social ethics, actually there is quite a lot of it in serious detail, but most people barely understand it ~ let alone comprehend it!  

Martian Tom said:

I prefer to take a 'see all sides' peacemaking role in life, rather than a defensive/offensive one.  Better jaw-jaw than war-war.  But it then often ends up making me feel like I'm being non-committal and intellectually weak.

Your preference is not even a choice for me, and as far as choosing a side goes ~ that is a choice but not one I could take or make, in the fish out of water sense. The defensive/offensive thing is optional but the 'protective/protection' thing works in so many more ways. But as for being committal and intellectually weak ~ how on earth did you get that one. Being committed to all people and intellectually considering multiple interests in a dispute or a discussion is the opposite of what you describe in terms of being weak, as it involves true strength.

Oh no I have just found out jep has decided to leave? She has asked how to close her account here, 20 august at 11:27am.I really hope she comes back, regardless of what happened I am mindful that this isn't just a forum for chatter. It is specifically here for anyone who is or believes they are autistic and for friends and family to learn about it.

Being here and being autistic kind of means things will get heated at times,there will be misunderstandings,we can all learn by communicating good and bad. 

Hi deepthought thank you for taking the time to help.You truly are amazing,you see things I don't,I read all of it,it all made sense and made me feel very blinkered. It is in my nature to try and work out each persons reasoning or thought process before replying, I am by no means good at judging character, It needs someone understanding and diplomatic like you to step in and strike a balance.

Again thank you for taking your time to help.we all need help sometimes. Have a big hug.(virtual)

Lol......are bandages too old school nowadays! :p

ElephantInTheRoom said:

I love you DeepThought....you cut light into the world with your insight......shine on.

I feel more that I am bringer of light perhaps, rather than as such a cutter, with my proverbial sword being both sharp and kept safely well out of the way ~ as I have cut myself far too often with it!  

Having to be mummified in Elastoplast is not always advantageous! 

I agree.  I think you should be Secretary-General of the United Nations, DT - though I doubt such a role would appeal to you in other respects.

In the world of politics and social ethics, 'deep-thinking' is something that seems to be sadly lacking.  I'd like to think that most people go into such roles to make a difference.  But that sadly seems to be almost the naivest reason of all.

I prefer to take a 'see all sides' peacemaking role in life, rather than a defensive/offensive one.  Better jaw-jaw than war-war.  But it then often ends up making me feel like I'm being non-committal and intellectually weak.

I love you DeepThought....you cut light into the world with your insight......shine on..

Hi DT

Hey JEP,

Appreciate your thoughts, so firstly thank you for taking the time. 

[/quote]

JEP said:

My pleasure, I am glad to be of some assistance.

I don't fully get though where you are coming from and how you got to all of this. There's quite a lot to get my mind around. 

Well as far as getting where I am coming from, I do not hold to a fixed frame of reference but use a fluid harmonic of many involving comparative metaphysics, philosophy, spirituality/religion, psychology, sociology and an increasing amount of quantum-physics as being my main fascinations, but certainly not my only ones. Basically I am in a constant state of meta-analysis.

With there being quite a lot to get your head around though, take your time, and if you need clarification, or some further information, simply ask, and we can take it from there.

JEP said:

My job is in the art world so it is my strength to visualise, let's say a room. I was not referring to planning ahead and I'm not sure how those things are linked?

Well there are abstract/subjective projections involving envisaged and narrated scenarios ~ in the internal or physical environment of the mind, and more or less integrally ~ there are concrete/objective relativities to objects and states of affairs, and or relationships with them ~ in the external or material environment of the body.

So visualising a room as you suggested involves planning ahead in that respect, as in terms of altering or adding to it as being a fixed object as a part of a building. Planning ahead in other areas therefore applies likewise for other people in the variety of their different ways, or else in the most minimal sense those who imagine things only as they are ~ and function in the object relationship sense regarding need, at the far end of the lower functioning spectrum of Autism.

JEP said:

However, you are right

NAS16440

You were not aware of or would not accept that the ability to engage in activities involving social imagination varies from person to person individually; with some autistic people being less able to at one end of the spectrum, and others being more able at the other end of the spectrum.

I do in fact know this but this did not come across. Just to make you aware I wasn't having a great day. And in retrospect should not have contributed on the Forum I believe.

When the antisocial self (the Id or animus) takes over ~ our general knowledge is pushed aside, as being then displaced or obstructed from our awareness during the episode, and this blocks our ability to be more viable for appreciating the finer things and conducting ourselves more accordingly, or harmoniously.

It was really obvious you were not having a good day, and given the scale of the changes you have been called to make in respect of your family and your work ~ stress is rather a given in these circumstances. So, as such, flipping-out or losing-the-plot etcetera is not at all that unusual.

Whether you should have contributed on the forum is by the by now, but recognising that you are on the boil as the expression goes regarding hypertension and anger, and behaving accordingly instead, it is definitely a valid consideration in terms of how best to resolve it.

JEP said:

There though have also been times on this Forum where I've brought up topics, they receive a lot of views - some of the comments though towards me or the topic have been quite defensive. I've let these go. Or I've reflected and tried to explain myself better. 

Well defensive responses result from either offensive commentaries individually, and or offended community members themselves due to correct or incorrect interpretation. Obviously we are dealing here with the offensive 'antisocial' character of your thus locked threads, and developing instead a more prosocial approach regarding the N.A.S. community.

I am also aware that you have been attempting to improve your communication methodologies, as stated previously I thought the 'Environment ~ What Might Help' thread was an excellent thread starter, and of course you are also communicating with me in terms of getting things sorted out.

The thing is, keep in mind also that having muck ups involving social interaction, social imagination and social communication is an autistic thing, and most of us in the community have a fair bit of experience in being the epicentre of social clangers, or disasters, here and there.     

So although you have really gone for the social disaster effect, big style, you are not the only one who has ever gone full on calamity factor ten, being that I have a lot of experience with them myself over the decades, and hence knowing pretty much where you are at the moment, perhaps.

JEP said:

You wrote:

NAS16440

This was psychological assault in terms of hitting Misfit with displacing allegations of identity, and during the  bewilderment of which, you used ''character assassination'' in terms of defaming Misfit61's good character and credibility; by way of therefore a predatory (strategic) and invasive (overbearing) attitude.

That's quite extreme and I'd question this. 

Yes, extreme it is, and as far as the three locked threads went; extreme they were too. Questioning or coming to terms with the mechanics of which and what else can be achieved with them (as in terms of sublimation) is rather an important consideration ~ what with all threads here needing to be and stay prosocial (or friendly) in character.

JEP said:

Regarding my comment to Misfit 

NAS16440

"Do you mind me asking a question Misfit61? Have you got a formal diagnosis of ASD? On your profile you wrote: 'autistic nearest to hf/as'

It reads colloquial, layman and non professional. A specialist in ASD would not write this.

I hadn't once before thought to look up another Member's profile but for some reason something wasn't quite adding up to me. 

That doesn't mean I was right to think so.

I do not get offended easily or even at all most of the time, and even if I do, I immediately let it pass anyway, as there is in my experience little reason to nurture such experiences in my experience. Also, being all big and fuming and stormy dark clouds with cracks of periodic thunder metaphorically is not conducive to receiving apologies, I find, at least. But I do actually really like the balance of wording you used in the last line there. I have no Idea how everybody else will respond. The thing is though, showing that you have really thought things through and learnt from your mistakes; that in the prosocial sense really is the point to life ~ so keep on working it and as some people find, strong friendships do in some cases start out as a result of having gotten into fights verbal and or physical. Show of strength, knocking off the rough edges and all that. (Attempt at ironic humour ahead warning) I highly recommend all the more though that smoothing and finishing the rough edges off more tentatively goes better really :-)  

JEP said:

I've been in two minds whether or not to disclose this. Whilst I have a professional background in fine art, that's what I now do. I also have a long professional background in mental health and addiction as a clinician. My last post was assessing and providing support to doctors and dentists who had mental health and addiction problems. It's a service available on the NHS.

I have quite a lot of experience but realise now by mentioning this I could face further judgement.

As for having as such worked in the NHS for those working in the NHS ~ you do not get judgement for that, seriously ~ you get full on respect for that. Yet, be very careful not to defend your actions recently, what with the "I am a professional/I know better" theme you have used with Misfit61 etcetera, which has not gone well thus far as such in the community, given what you have also mentioned about defensiveness from others earlier. Recall that some people on the spectrum more particularly sometimes but others too ~ have had some very negative experiences with people taking an authoritarian approach to things. In martial arts for instance there is an expression that goes, "A sword does not remain sharp if it is always being used." So perhaps keep the professional stuff at work, and use it only when someone asks for it and 'really' needs it, as a general guideline maybe.

Hi DT

Appreciate your thoughts, so firstly thank you for taking the time. 

I don't fully get though where you are coming from and how you got to all of this. There's quite a lot to get my mind around. 

My job is in the art world so it is my strength to visualise, let's say a room. I was not referring to planning ahead and I'm not sure how those things are linked?

However, you are right

Deepthought said:

You were not aware of or would not accept that the ability to engage in activities involving social imagination varies from person to person individually; with some autistic people being less able to at one end of the spectrum, and others being more able at the other end of the spectrum.

I do in fact know this but this did not come across. Just to make you aware I wasn't having a great day. And in retrospect should not have contributed on the Forum I believe. 

There though have also been times on this Forum where I've brought up topics, they receive a lot of views - some of the comments though towards me or the topic have been quite defensive. I've let these go. Or I've reflected and tried to explain myself better. 

You wrote:

Deepthought said:

This was psychological assault in terms of hitting Misfit with displacing allegations of identity, and during the  bewilderment of which, you used ''character assassination'' in terms of defaming Misfit61's good character and credibility; by way of therefore a predatory (strategic) and invasive (overbearing) attitude.

That's quite extreme and I'd question this. 

Regarding my comment to Misfit 

Deepthought said:

"Do you mind me asking a question Misfit61? Have you got a formal diagnosis of ASD? On your profile you wrote: 'autistic nearest to hf/as'

It reads colloquial, layman and non professional. A specialist in ASD would not write this. 

I hadn't once before thought to look up another Member's profile but for some reason something wasn't quite adding up to me. 

That doesn't mean I was right to think so. 

I've been in two minds whether or not to disclose this. Whilst I have a professional background in fine art, that's what I now do. I also have a long professional background in mental health and addiction as a clinician. My last post was assessing and providing support to doctors and dentists who had mental health and addiction problems. It's a service available on the NHS.

I have quite a lot of experience but realise now by mentioning this I could face further judgement. 

JEP said:

Morning

Yesterday a couple of Threads were locked by the Moderators. I wished I had known how to contact them before this happened to ask their advice because I was getting concerned too. The Threads are:

- 'Not Imagining & Visualising'

- 'Environment - What Might Help'

These are Threads which I've been involved in. I receive Notifications by email and something which happened, I took the context of one Thread by a Member and applied this to another Thread, where the Member was posting simultaneously. 

Hey JEP,

I have read a number of your posts, including 'Autistic vs You Think You Are On The Spectrum', and the two you have listed above.

In the 'Not Imagining & Visualising' thread started by Misfit61, you informed her that according to your experience of having A.S.D., in terms of you having the ability to make plans, that she as not being able to do so could not as such be autistic. You were not aware of or would not accept that the ability to engage in activities involving social imagination varies from person to person individually; with some autistic people being less able to at one end of the spectrum, and others being more able at the other end of the spectrum. This holds true for any autistic person across the diagnostic spectrum ~ involving impaired social interaction, impaired social communication and impaired social imagination.

This you refuted, and made the most dismissive and disorienting remarks about Misfit61 as being the complete opposite of A.S.D., that she was reading herself into other peoples descriptions of A.S.D., and when she explained her experience of things, and provided evidence supportive of which, you used this information to further dismiss and disorient her with not being diagnosable with A.S.D.. This was psychological assault in terms of hitting Misfit with displacing allegations of identity, and during the  bewilderment of which, you used ''character assassination'' in terms of defaming Misfit61's good character and credibility; by way of therefore a predatory (strategic) and invasive (overbearing) attitude. The fact you refuted doing so and continued doing so ~ despite being both asked and told not to four times, this was the reason that that particular thread was locked, with the final statement being the infamous; in paraphrase ~ "Antisocial behaviour is not acceptable in this community, whereas as prosocial behaviour is" ~ message. 

In the 'Environment ~ What May Help' thread you started, it is a proper ouch that such a good opener, prosocial to the hilt, went antisocial yet again by way digging the spike in yet again with,

"Do you mind me asking a question Misfit61? Have you got a formal diagnosis of ASD? On your profile you wrote: 'autistic nearest to hf/as'

(which in psychoanalytic terms ~ means: Higher-Functioning Autism (Spectrum Disorder) or Asperger Syndrome, and then in complete ignorance of this you went on to surmise incorrectly,)

'That's not professional terminology at all.'

You chose then to continue on obsessively again to defend your position by denouncing and thereby demeaning anybody that got in the way of your predatory and invasive point. So you got that thread locked also, with the mandatory ~ "Antisocial behaviour is not acceptable in this community, whereas prosocial behaviour is" ~ message.

JEP said:

I don't believe though that I've been rude but have certainly challenged. Whether I was right to do so, I actually do not know at the moment.

Now in terms of learning from our mistakes, going on at very very least the moderator's response in terms of community safety, it would be well worth considering that your dismissive challenges were extremely rude, and as such caused a great deal of egoic offence and psychic wounding. A great deal of effort was made by everybody involved to get the situation on an even keel, but alas the tricky nature of autism was more on the go in respect of the difficulties involved with social interaction (what is or not in sequence), social imagination (what is or not the case) and social communication (what is or not to be expressed).

JEP said:

I had in fact suggested in one Thread that I started that we closed the topic and start a new one. My suggestion was 'Environment'. My intention here was to try and move away from ASD in some ways and think more generally about what suits us. This though ended being locked.

Again I will state that as far as thread-starters go, 'Environment' really did have all the potential to have been a very healthy and fruitful discussion.

JEP said:

If anyone has an opinion, view, would like to advise me then this post is to ensure all Members know that I am happy, open to listening. I can reflect well and if it ends up that I should need to apologise then I will do so.

When I make mistakes, I really do appreciate being informed when I cannot see for looking, as I very much appreciate discussing different perspectives, and thereby also refining my 'modus-operandi' in favour of achieving healthier personal and social developments. So it would seem that you and I are alike to some extent, only my way of relating things may not be compatible with yours. None the less, should you like my support, you already have it.

JEP said:

It's a new Community and however anxious I've been left feeling over these matters, I'd prefer to address and remain a Member. But in the meantime I won't post.

Yay with staying a member JEP, and work the prosocial behaviour too.

DT